RE: Wargoth & congruence with other Infernals (Full Version)

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Laeon val Observis -> RE: Wargoth & congruence with other Infernals (5/30/2025 6:34:06)

quote:

I'm not sure what would be lost in having the art direction reflect some shared design elements between them and that seems to be what the sentiment here is

How about aggravating failure of imagination?




DMBY -> RE: Wargoth & congruence with other Infernals (5/30/2025 6:39:40)

Yeah I'm with TFS, I don't think anyone has made the claim that Wargoth is Exalted but it would improve the visual storytelling if he shared at least some design elements with them. Because the Exalted are the only other Infernals/Celestials in the game, they're the only frame of reference players will have.

It's not like there's anything in the game that says - let alone shows - that the Infernals/Celestials we actually see in the game are super visually distinct from other Infernals/Celestials that theoretically exist in the lore. And even if there were, that just seems like a justification for the 13-year-old Wargoth design specifically rather than just updating it.





Bluu -> RE: Wargoth & congruence with other Infernals (5/30/2025 7:09:38)

quote:

The passage of multiple writers aside, perhaps as a reminder, Celestials and Infernals are the Lorian equivalent of angels and demons. If you have been only hardwired to the image imposed by Christianity -that is, winged humanoids- then the image of said supernatural entities in a Judeo-Christianic sense will jar you. Perhaps even trying odd inspirations such as Ars Goetia may help expand your perspectives. So as far as I am concerned, our current developer's logic has soundness, and this discussion seems to be reaching an imminent impasse... if not already there.

And if you're not really into religion, how about Evangelion?

The Lion does not turn around when the small dog barks.

quote:

How about aggravating failure of imagination?

The Lion does not wipe.




Verlyrus -> RE: Wargoth & congruence with other Infernals (5/30/2025 11:14:23)

Wargoth is closer in physiology to The Engineer than The Engineer is to the Celestial/Infernal Guards. I don't think it is beyond imagination that beings that powerful and gifted would have mutable forms, and this has been shown in-game with the variety of differences within the tower and out.

You've seen lore in-game about how Infernal/Celestial designs and approaches differ. As Wargoth was not part of the Exalted alliance, he was not part of that culture. Naturally, then, his outward appearance would not reflect that combination of cultures/designs/philosophy.

Different people from different cultures look different.

quote:

And even if there were, that just seems like a justification for the 13-year-old Wargoth design specifically rather than just updating it.

As I mentioned before, the lore for all this was written before the Exalted designs were even created. I don't understand this sentiment. And really, you've played this game long enough to know how ridiculous of a statement "just updating it" is, in general. Depending on the complexity of an art update, that could mean re-animating multiple monsters, cutscenes, and more.

I can see again if we want to do an art pass, but if Dracelix and Dove are happy with the design, I don't see a good reason to change it.
EDIT: After some discussion, there are a couple elements, such as the blues, that could be made more Mana-coded, and we may experiment with a reshade on some of the other parts. But the design in general is fine. The lore reasons (both known and unknown) justify the major differences. And obviously, there are plans for the unknown to become known, with time.




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