=DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2

=DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (Full Version)

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Laeon val Observis -> =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/11/2026 19:25:28)
quote: [image]https://www.dragonfable.com/images/DF/author/Verlyrus.png[/image] Friday, September 11, 2026 Fleshweaver: Part 2 Hey there, heroes! This week, your Fleshweaver training will be complete... [image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/2026-09-11-Fleshweaver2DN.png[/image] The second half of Fleshweaver training is here, along with some other new things, and some information on an upcoming item for Soulweaver! If you chose to consume Aegis, the last 3 quests to reach your full potential are now available from Secundus. New items are now also available from certain characters for Dragon Coins. The Mote of Hope and Mote of Power can be combined into the Mote of Threads, which allows you to freely access Soulweaver, Fleshweaver, and associated benefits. The Mote of Threads also lets you freely replay Valour, as well as Rewrite history. Each mote can be purchased for 500 Dragon Coins each (1000 Dragon Coins total for the Mote of Threads). A new house item is also available for Dragon Coins. The Fire Paradigm Portal can be purchased from certain characters for 200 Dragon Coins, and lets you visit the Fire Paradigm from the comfort of your own home. Finally, an update about that something special coming soon for Soulweavers who choose to reject Secundus! A new trinket is in the works that will not only have a powerful Soulweaver-exclusive skill, but will also let you summon Aegis as a guest in the middle of battle, as long as you have room, and he is around (Challenge areas excluded, of course). This new technology certainly holds some interesting potential for the future as well... Of course, since Fleshweaver is officially fully released, that means it's no longer available for testing! Head over to the Fire Paradigm to continue your training... or not! Also this week, we have a new cosmetic helmet available for Dragon Coins! [image]https://cms.battleon.com/DF/images/Promo-FellFireHelmdn.png[/image] The FellFire Sallet can be purchased from the DC Cosmetics shop for 400 Dragon Coins! And that's all for this week! Next week, Dove is taking a well deserved rest, so the release will be up to Dracelix and I! Along with the new Soulweaver trinket, it will probably be a little bit of a lighter release. My fall to the Dark Side is complete... but so is my return to the Light and eagerly awaiting what is to come for BMSW to rise to terrifying new heights. spoiler: Poise is consensual to getting nommed, the last two require a brawl to prove yourself worthy. You will want to deploy your shied Turn 1 on Du- I mean, Perfection, unlike when Valo(u)r is by your side. Paw printed, and tagged! ~Gingkage

everett910 -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/11/2026 22:33:56)
It was a delicious meal worthy of consumption. Unrelated but I wonder whatever happened to Char and his brother after Secundus installed a portal in their house. Great release, 7 quests in 5 days must be a new record, love the portal.

Zeldax -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 0:27:00)
One criticism I forgot to include in my previous post is that there was no proper cutscene for the Hero obtaining the flesh suit. The Hero eats Aegis and is suddenly covered in flesh with no showing or explanation as to how that happened. Also, why was every spirit wiling to be eaten? Fleshweaver was made out to be this horrible thing that is basically forbidden (I recall it being referred to as a forbidden magick but that might be discord lore) and gross but for some reason, all the elemental spirits we encountered showed no signs of hesitation or fear or resistance right before being consumed. The Hero also basically becomes a non-character (again) throughout the entire Fleshweaving training. They show no signs of remorse or corruption or any behavioral change as they consume more elemental spirits.

Jakau Ryuu -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 1:40:28)
spoiler: Another interesting set of fights, hot damn. Proper timing of both Slough and Flesh of Ice is key here, alongside some res-stacking of course, and Flesh of Nature's heal debuff was pretty useful on the last fight too. And while I've been running an Int build for FW so far since it's got major crit support, I got enough mileage out of the class' DoTs here that I'm starting to consider taking a Dex setup for a proper spin. Gonna need to chew on the overall writing here for a bit I think, but I'm quite curious to see where the last little twist in the FW training narrative goes.

Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 2:09:56)
@Zeldax, while all this can be attributed to the arc's rush job-like feel plus with possibly how it was injected right after Book 3's already matured, let's try to get some logic to it, shall we? quote: no proper cutscene for the Hero obtaining the flesh suit Unless you want the more conservative parents to scream how morbid it could've possibly been, just imagine it that the first time we had to eat a mature Elemental Spirit would've required our mortal shell to undergo a significant degree of "evolution" to result in a fleshy equivalent of Tony Stark's nanotech armors. quote: Also, why was every spirit wiling to be eaten? 5 of 7 have reasons enough: 1. Valo(u)r - Poster quest if the "rush job" feel as we didn't have enough time to see Aegis showing signs of insecurity on how they rescued us at the climax of the Calamity arc. At this point that led to us devouring him, more of a tell don't show that Secundus probably gave us a more brutal curbstomp aside from the Thanos snap enough to finally stimulate that insecurity to the surface. 2. Wisdom - If there was no answer that Salla of Wisdom could've severed their connection to Izaac to heal their partner, then why waste energy in a confrontation? There is wisdom in the acceptance of the inevitable, unless you wanted to see the refuse outcome lead to us Banishing the spirit and dealing with the fallout later to have a more impactful feel. 3. Detachment - Along with the 4th spirit in our 7-course meal, pretty much implies that our training montage was occurring during and after the Aiding Mortem mini-arc and after the First Weaver saga. Lost your siblings, the Soulweaving and its associated branches of mystical arts a dying breed, and an ongoing plague that forced a quarantine of the village where Edelia gets most of its students exacerbating the latter? Surely that'll deal a number on one's morale and psychological fortitude no matter how long the eons should've tempered it. Also, did you really expect that all Elemental Spirits will behave akin to heroes who'll rather perform a defiant charge against maou-sama or their supreme retainers like Frieren's Hero of the South? With most of the spirits we devoured being good-aligned, they should have wisdom that if they're bested enough, there's no point in turning delaying the inevitable ala Erymanthian Boar. 4. Poise - A confirmed tragedy of the Aiding Mortem, with a dash of Detachment. All the memories together with your weaver in their life, the expectations that you'll spend the eternities together when your weaver should've become an Elemental Spirit, gone. That will make any with lesser psychological fortitudes really be susceptible to the prospect of suicide for mortals, getting turned into food for FWs for Elemental Spirits. 5. Mettle - As a one-off with barely any screentime, definitely another "rush job" feel with how spoiler: they expressed their boredom of immortality without a weaver. Even if it was fleshed out (no pun intended), this one has a similar tenet I outlined as the 2nd and last sentences on Detachment. Plus, they gave their word. Honesty is dubious in its notion of consent, as it feels more like interacting with a neurodivergent. Perfection? The only stain to that was spoiler: the inclusion of the choice to refuse as it should've been inevitable at this point, and the fact that the Fire spirit didn't show also any boredom of eternity prior just like Mettle whilst the final confrontation setup a worthy final exam. quote: They show no signs of remorse or corruption or any behavioral change as they consume more elemental spirits. Is our hesitation during Wisdom not a show of remorse? Low capacity for detachment would've been the proper expression hence why the Elemental Spirit that we had to devour after has that aspect to temper it into our Hero's being, but otherwise there's remorse in that. Corruption? Did you not see our Hero's face when we said "Now absorb" when we made the choice to assimilate Malus? Behavioral change is something that can be up to the debate on how the DF Hero is brough to life, but if the intent is a person with strong resistance to personality or habit changes, probably would explain why some of their personality still surfaces despite appearing completed and perfect to our trainer's eyes.

Cryomancer -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 5:36:20)
Personal thoughts on FW quests now that the full questline is out: spoiler: I'm really not a fan of Valour - the core issue is that Aegis' doubt hasn't been sufficiently built up. I'm not sure if this could have been fixed though - I feel like realistically in order for this to work this would have required a full quest chain so you're basically asking the playerbase to wait for another year for FW to come out to set up Aegis' doubt story-wise. The decision to refuse in Valour also has some really shaky writing - I feel like instead of having Elpis you could instead of Secundus fight the Hero in order to observe them for his future plans, as it feels oddly rash and impulsive for Secundus to jump straight into trying to kill the Hero after refusing the offer. Wisdom was good - I feel like going with the spirits being semi-willing to be consumed was probably the right decision as having the Hero be evil and go on a rampage consuming the spirits would feel really out of character, and it also sets up the idea that FW is an evil power but it can be used for good which fits with the Hero's established characterisation. It also sets up the fact that Secundus isn't quite as evil as he initially appears to be which is the twist of sorts in Perfection. Detachment feels really odd - it's weird that Edelia's been abandoned when we had a quest with the headmaster of Edelia not that long ago which shows that Edelia is still operational. I feel like Oyva should have been confronted in Mortem to address this issue and I feel if there's any quest that could stand to be rewritten, it would be this. I thought Honesty was fine but nothing special - it's nice to see a spirit that Aegis mentioned in passing in a random quest a while ago though there's not much new that this quest shows that hasn't been highlighted in previous quests. My thoughts on Poise and Mettle are similar to Honesty - there's really not much new here but the actual writing of the quests is fine outside of Forto being a spirit that hasn't been mentioned before (though IMO that isn't a grave issue especially compared to the writing of the Valour quest). I liked Perfection - I feel like it recontextualises Secundus' character in a way that feels thematically appropriate. I think Dove mentioned this on Discord, but Roirr thought that being immortal would make him live forever, Vaal thought that as long as he was remembered, he would "live forever", and it makes sense that Secundus' motivation would be to establish a legacy through training the Hero so that he would "live forever" - it makes sense given that Secundus is a fusion of Vaal and Roirr who sought their own version of immortality. I feel like the core issue here was similar to the core issue with Malerous - there's not enough buildup for the big story moments, both with the decision to side with Notha and Remthalas' insanity in Reawakening because Malerous was a F13 questline and Aegis' doubt wasn't sufficiently built up because no one wants to wait another year for FW which is what Valour realistically needed in order for Aegis' characterisation in that quest to work.

Dratomos -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 6:49:25)
I think it's time for me to also forumpost now that the whole Fleshweaver is out. What I liked? Class itself and how the choice is applied. Animations are great, class is very strong and unique, and training feels actually like training and not just "gather 14 resources". It's well done. It's neat that we are still given option to refuse consuming more spirits. Makes sense. And it kinda makes sense that Secundus would send us to spirits that would be already willing to be consumed. It is a bit laughable that everyone of them accepts it, but in DF having them to be opposed and then consumed after losing would not just fit with Hero's characterization. So like this, I think it's good enough. Having items to make it faster to keep both FW and SW is also good choice, players who don't want to spend DC can also just switch between two classes. I think it's the best of both worlds. But what I didn't like? Story itself for this. spoiler: There are way too many shortcuts, wasted potential and also overall confusion for me to like this. Aegis' crisis is not buildup. It comes way too fast, and in Refuse, it is solved way too fast. Going from "Consume me, I am worthless" to "100% with you" with only our Hero using talk no jutsu and saying "You are not worthless" just feels rushed to conclude it. It would've made much more sense for Aegis to shield our Hero alone from Secundus nuking and that confidence allowing him to be more sure and our bond deeping. Our bond becoming stronger during the fight and of our own actions would fit better than Elpis coming out suddenly and just being deus ex machina. Elpis can appear after we have defeated Secundus. But defeating Secundus alone with Aegis would've made that work better and also explain Aegis' mindset. Elpis is another thing that I just don't like. Elpis comes suddenly, and isn't really build-up either. Does it work in-lore? Eh. I guess if I don't think about it too much. But I liked Elpis just being a cape that showcased alternate universe shenanigans from Inn. I liked that. Just a fun what if for us to see. But them being a literal amalgamation that saves the day just feels cheap. It lessens the impact from Void Ship Saga, with Tomix now being back in another form. I get that it's not Tomix. But it still doesn't feel the same anymore. Same if Serenity came back as an amalgamation with Valtrith after we defeat Caitiff. It just wouldn't work and lessens the impact. Secundus is also just now defeated and gone. Sure, it feels different for someone like me who has waited for a decade what was he planning, than a new player, but now it just seems that devs want this whole story arc to be almost done. And it's also just sudden. I didn't expect Secundus to be some kind of mastermind or major antagonist of Book 4, but something. At least something and not just being gone after two releases. We also have multiple "quantum characters" with majority of the Weaving saga characters. Aegis, Riadne and Izaac now having two possible states means that we probably won't see them ever again or just in small roles. Maybe Riadne? But Izaac is either cured and angry with us, Aegis might be alive, Riadne might be someone without a partner, or happy with Izaac. And accounting that in future releases probably means it's easier to not just have them. But also the biggest question and confusion I have with this. When is this supposed to take place??? It makes most sense to be pre-Book 3 finale, as Aegis being more confident after this fits his characterization. But is it after we come back to Greenguard that we meet Secundus? Before going to Victoria to inform about what happened in Dragesvard? There is no introduction to Secundus, there is nothing build up for our hero to even know or care about him. If it's post, Aegis' whole crisis makes even less sense and our hero would mention Jaania as a counterpoint to Aegis otherwise. But Aegis appears there. Unless the cutscene is edited heavily now without Aegis appearing, I don't know how it works. But it has to be post TFW, because we go to Edelia and meet Danyel in main story. And during then, it is not abandoned. We meet Danyel before he dies. But then again, with the two-parter with Katia, there is no mention of Edelia being abandoned. We even meet the new principal! And the Mortem's soul issue is solved there, but whole Edelia stuff is just confusing. The whole timeline is now very inconsistent and something I haven't seen with DF in a long time. It is very confusing to try to understand what is going on with this. And another aspect that makes it seem that this was rushed so that it would be done. I don't want to be too negative with the story, but I have very little positive to say about it. It doesn't fit anywhere, every major plot point is way too sudden and resolved just as quickly and the outcome is pretty meh. Piotr being gone as (possibly only) Fleshweaver is not really intriguing to me. And if his storyline will be as poorly executed as this, I don't feel any excitment for it.

ProbablyCallum -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 6:58:19)
Thank GOD this is over

DMBY -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 7:10:57)
I too must forumpoooooost Big fan of the class, the anims are a delight and it feels like it has a distinct identity. Absolutely not a fan of how the story played out. spoiler: I detest that every spirit is fine with being consumed. It was executed well with Salla, but I can't say I liked any other quest. Secundus in particular was really soured for me by Perfection. imo these weren't morally ambiguous enough, if anything fleshweaver route seems to be the "better" choice. Strange choice for the body horror class. Also I wanted to eat Vitael and rid Lore of Belle, but alas it was not to be

Laeon val Observis -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 7:48:14)
I was just rewatching Overlord, only to see this thread go this direction? At this point, I regret that I failed adding a paragraph in the same syntax that I did on December 2025's first DNs thread about keeping the animosity from bleeding through multiple threads. I shan't ask for forgiveness or clemency, Gingkage... At this point, if no one can have a better criticism than what @Cryomancer had shown, vent your emotional energy to an alternate constructive means elsewhere as there is zero need to make an imitation of the AQ folks' "I (insert ordinal number) (insert forumite's name here)" when it is blatant mob mentality.

Zeldax -> RE: Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 9:09:37)
@Laeon In case it wasn't clear, my question regarding the elemental spirits' willingness to be consumed was from a writer's perspective, that is, why the developers chose to include only elemental spirits who were more or less fine with being consumed. This is especially considering all that's been said about the "moral ambiguity" and whatnot in accepting Secundus' offer to become a Fleshweaver during its decade-long wait time. It doesn't have to be an equal distribution of spirits willing and not willing, but they could have at least included two or three (out of seven) who weren't. Obviously a big factor here is the lack of time, but that doesn't mean people are not allowed to give their feedback. I'm also not sure what animosity you're talking about? Most of the posts in this specific thread so far have been fairly tame and constructive. It wasn't until I read your most recent post that I felt some form of hostility towards people who are just expressing their thoughts on what they played. Did you expect all feedback regarding Fleshweaver's release to be positive just because it's finally out after over a decade?

Maxtrigon -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 10:02:58)
I don't have much to add that others haven't already echoed in this thread, just wanted to say that, above all else, this class was worth the wait for the animation and gameplay feel of it. Genuinely feels great to have to think about every fight on a completely different level when you're managing your resources in a really unique way. Only critique in terms of the class's design is the severe lack of recovery tools. It feels super awkward to turtle while you're waiting for your next eFire burst which I find strange considering eFire already punishes you by having its damage tied to how low your HP is and helping that along via converting your HP to MP. I would like to see if maybe some CDs can be further adjusted, I think the eCDs are perfect where they're at and offer a level of thought on when and why you're empowering a skill, but the weaker skills could do with lower CD times just so they're a bit more usable whilst you're in a recovering period. The story is very, uh, "meh" to put it lightly my eldritch horror abomination that's meant to be affront to all living beings is actually better at being a hero than choosing the obviously "Good" path, but I don't care because my eldritch horror abomination is peak design. Hope Book 4 goes well, and I'll be curious what this trinket for SoulWeaver does.

GodJank -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 12:17:36)
I'm too late to this whole conversation, so I have nothing else to add that @Dratomos and @Cyromancer didn't already say. TLDR great class (albeit a bit awkward) and poor story (with missed potential and no build-up). One thing I'd like to say thought is that I hope is that the developers don't feel like we aren't appreciative and that we just love to complain, because I don't think people do. DF is a great game and we've all formed strong memories with this game, so it just stings all the more when potentially great story lines end up being poorly executed. It just ends up feeling bad when really good story telling is tossed aside in favour of just pushing out the class and having it finally be fully released. It feels especially bad when we've had multiple threads now with players lamenting the Hero's poor characterization and stories feeling like nonsense, having the main dev reply to all of those comments, and then.. we just don't really get anywhere? It sucks when the best written quests in a while have been by LK and not the main writers. @Laeon The only one being emotional is you. Quit your incessant whining, and stop trying to minimod. There is no "upper echelon" of "endgamers and top ranked players" like you seem to think, and there is no hidden agenda of players going together form the same opinions (evident when Bluu and TFS in just a previous thread both heavily disagreed with each other).

Gingkage -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 12:42:04)
While Fleshweaver has always been, even before the release itself, a class that has caused a myriad of strong opinions, I will remind everyone that respect for your fellow forum members is not a request, it is a requirement. If you cannot interact with your fellows with respect, then do not engage with them. The purpose of this thread is to discuss Friday's release, not bicker with each other. Stay on topic. Behave.

TFS -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 13:27:08)
I really liked the gameplay of this questline. Training up a class through a boss gauntlet that progressively unlocks more skills is a cool way to 'force' players to learn what each skill does. The fact that like half of the class's power is concentated into its final move is also great for balancing the bosses to ensure a challenge, and for having it feel like a big upgrade once you complete Perfection. I appreciated how the protagonist wasn't actually evil while eating the spirits - though I think the execution was a little confused. Secundus and consuming spirits are clearly presented as 'evil' in the Valour quest, though this immediately dissipates in the following quests and the spirits all actually want to be eaten. It's also kind of weird that Secundus is suddenly actually just a nice guy who wanted to help us all along and there's no friction with him, when the first quest had him trying to kill us for no reason, then both Elpis and Oyva earlier in the questline talk about how evil he is. I would have preferred some sort of acknowledgement that this is evil magic but we're using it for good. spoiler: I was less than thrilled with the actual story, for reasons stated above by other players and in the last thread. The Valour quest drastically changes, and then quickly resolves characters' motivations in a way that's paced way too quickly to not be jarring. Information about the nature of Fleshweaver isn't ever actually revealed to the characters within the setting, so when Aegis starts asking you to eat him it seems completely nuts. Elpis is a deus ex machina that feels unearned. Secundus is initially portrayed as evil, but this is immediately forgotten about if you choose to side with him. It's very casually revealed that the Pupa killed off all the soulweavers, none of them were allowed to become ESes, and Edelia is abandoned - very large developments that are waved off as something that just happened off-screen the other day. And of course, the choice to write Secundus out of the story is disappointing because he was such a compelling character. Something I did like about the story was how Tanislav's Last Will was handled - Secundus removing the forbidden spell from his memory (presumably this is what the Memory Fragments are) to ensure no one else could do it, and close the loop. That was a clever resolution I quite liked. Also, I really like the Consumed Emanation - possibly the coolest weapon art in the game.

Roxas45 -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 13:31:24)
I've not been able to sink time into this series for some time because real life has unfortunately caught up time and time again. But I have enjoyed going through the First Weaver's saga to get the fragments for the update. I do... have one issue here. And this is a personal statement, nothing more. I dont want to get into a fight over this. We - as a player - go through the events of the First Weaver. My god - did I forget how much of a jerk Riorr is/was/will be. He makes even Vaal look... small and insignificant in comparison. I will have to go back and revisit Ravenloss Parts 1 and 2 to get the refresher on his story. I'd forgotten how Val was the turning point in the bootstrap that ensures it, not riorr. That said - I.. will not be attempting the choice without getting the items that let you keep both classes. I've been searching for that sometime now, but can't seem to find it. That said - The quest for the choice. Sir Malifact acknowledges that you've done his storyline, (or appears to - I think its abiguous to prevent any issues with players who've NOT done it) - that you know his true nature. Which comes to my first point. We (Character) have the memory fragments - while We (player) are the ones who did the quest. It feels like there should be some similar acknowledgement of the timeline of events - specifically since getting the fragments is NECESSARY for the class. Not just start off like "Who? What? Whats happening? Who are you?" - that... felt a little off to me. Then there's Aegis. I get how his confidence is... diminished. What with us being frozen, nearly dead in the Void, frozen again later, and so on. But... Not to the point that he's willingly sacrificing his whole BEING. Aegis was unhappy with his strength - and so he grew (that, and the whole being trapped in ice gave him a big boost). He got a house, and not just on a whim. I feel like there should have been MORE of a descent - not just "We lost a fight? OH NOOOOOOO. Eat me <Character>. Its okay." Obviously, I'll have more to say when the quest is actually completed - but I'm not doing that without the option to keep all the classes is cemented. I have the DC's for it, ready and raring to go. Also - It could be just my weird sense of experiencing time these days, but... I distinctly remember there being a MUCH larger period between Class Testing and then releasing the class. Like enough time to take feedback, and so on. This felt like the release and testing overlapped almost - one day the test class was there in the book, and then the full version is live. I'm not complaining - kudos to the team for working hard on this in the background, and bringing it live. I'm just - surprised. Pleasantly so. That said - Soul weaver trinket. Again, having done the First Weaver quest again - I notice how there's no "closure" or "aftermath" on what happens in the Shapeless empire after Riorr's invasion. I mean the Shapeless was literally going rampant around the capital, and Danyel chose Riorr over stopping the Shapeless. I'm.. A friend who's gotten into this game because of me read the reports of the fleshweaver testing, and said, "Oh? We're getting Avential's Twin for the Trinket?" And It made me think that soulweaver is going to be Holy Craps Levels of powerful with the trinket AND Avential in it (again - not a complaint, quite the opposite I'd say - while I LOVE the Chaos Weaver, I DO miss the sheer style and presentation of the original Soulwweaver, and have been forever salty that Master and OG merged into one via Customization options. Bah.) I tried the fleshweaver in the testing phase and I loved it - it was quite interesting and defensively oriented compared to Chaos - but... My god does it LOOK god awful IMO. I was hoping that it would look closer to Riorr that we saw in Ravenloss Part 2, or even Vaal/Riorr merged together. Not... Muscular from MHA. NOT a personal attack - just my opinion based on my personal styles and preferences. Even self-censored, profanity is not allowed. ~Gingkage

Vikken101 -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 13:55:15)
@Roxas45 In regards to your story observation, me and others are hoping we return to the Shapeless Empire that remains in book 4, to deal with the rampaging Shapeless situation. Especially since Alteon said at the end of book 3 that he is also heading over there to help people and it was also stated the Shapeless have changed his appearance since we last saw it, so it would be interesting to see what its turned into to and help Alteon. Certainly a story tread that I think we will return to at some point in the future.

liberty1776 -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 15:09:00)
I did the Wisdom quest and ended with "Consume", but my skill is not unlocking and it won't let me move on to Detachment. Is there any fix for this?

SongOfInsanity -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/12/2026 18:08:20)
@Roxas45 If you have not gotten the item keep both classes yet, than let me explain. Each choice, (whether you choose to refuse or accept to become a Fleshweaver) ultimately ends with a shop to buy one part of the item, the Mote of Hope and Mote of Power, respectively. At the end of either choice, if you have both items then you can merge them together to create the item, the Mote of Threads.

Bluu -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/13/2026 4:30:14)
quote: There is no "upper echelon" of "endgamers and top ranked players" like you seem to think, and there is no hidden agenda of players going together form the same opinions I'm not sure where this even came from btw. Most of the people that are supposedly part of this "upper echelon" are just friends on discord and we disagree all the time about trivial semantics

TFS -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/13/2026 19:53:07)
Something I'm a little confused by is where the protagonist's knowledge begins and ends in this questline. We as players know more about the lore than the characters within the setting do, but the line between them is kind of blurred here. Do the protagonist and Aegis already know that you can eat an Elemental Spirit to become a Fleshweaver, and become more powerful? The dialogue in Valour is written as if they do, but this information was never actually revealed to the characters within the setting - so it comes across like Aegis is completely and utterly sick in the head, and his veneer of sanity disappeared at the drop of a hat. How much of Secundus's storyline is the protagonist aware of? Their dialogue in Detachment implies they know Secundus is Roirr. If they know about the events of the First Weaver storyline, when and how did they become aware of it? Why didn't they tell Victoria or the Golden Hand about it? If they know Secundus is Roirr, shouldn't they also know Secundus is Vaal - a character who they personally knew, and abandoned to die? Shouldn't they have acknowledged Vaal in some way if so? Furthermore, how does Oyva know Secundus was once Roirr? From what we're shown, Secundus conceals his existence from her so that she solely blames her father for his cruelty - and for very obvious reasons, it would not make much sense for Secundus to reveal the details of his creation to her. Secundus indicates he knows about the Reset, and its center around the protagonist standing on the cliff. This is fine, but he then goes on to say that by consuming him the protag will take on his knowledge. So, does the protagonist just know that it was them who caused the Reset now? I'm wondering why the line about the protag taking on Secundus's knowledge and experiences was even included at all; they will obviously never be written to accommodate this. I really like Fleshweaver and the gameplay surrounding it, as well as the idea of the storyline surrounding it. But it feels like, in execution, the storyline tried to cram a ton of plot and character developments into far less screentime than could support them, so it feels like a lot of stuff is underdeveloped or missing.

Sumbrosus -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/17/2026 16:30:36)
I'm glad I read your comments about the goings-on in the Paradigm of Fire. spoiler: If I hadn't, I wouldn't have found out about the option to choose Aegis, rather than Secundus -- and the opportunity to finally give him the beating both his components have been asking for, for the longest time. Mind you, it took me a bit of doing to administer said beating, but it still feels mighty good. Mini-rant incoming. Before I get into it: I'm sure Dove did an amazing job on the other path of the Fleshweaver arc, as well. spoiler: I appreciate there's an option to get everything; soulweaving, fleshweaving, and Aegis. And I don't want to yuck anyone's yum. But I'm content to let the Fleshweaver class pass me by. I know, "it's just a game", but I get a bit immersed in the lore. And all the lore tells me that Fleshweaving is repulsive and BAD. It taints the soul to the point it can't become an elemental spirit after death, and may not even return to the Core. The other "dark" classes - Necromancer, Deathknight, Chaosweaver - are mostly about stuff you do to yourself, or that are temporary (snatching a soulthread, animating a corpse, things like that). The concept of Fleshweaving, with its devouring of elemental spirits - souls - just strikes me as ... creepy and off-putting. But hey, that's just me.

SongOfInsanity -> RE: =DF= Friday, September 11th Design Notes: Fleshweaver: Part 2 (9/18/2026 2:47:53)
At long last Fleshweaver is out and it is a fantastic class. But, I have to agree with everyone about the quest line. It's just there with no real connection to the storyline. As it currently sits, it's in desperate need of at least a prequel quest line. Something to establish Aegis introducting the Hero to Secundus (as Secundus was the Elemental Spirit who made Aegis his fake body in Just Chillin'), Secundus gaining the Hero's trust through a series of quests (which can also serve as a way to explain why and when the Hero set out to collect the Memory Fragments), and Secundus manipulating Aegis into doubting himself (as an explanation as to why Aegis was so willing to let himself be devoured). I would also like to propose an idea about about the Hero devouring Elemental Spirits and their fleshweaving. What if the Hero took the name literally? Consider it. Up to the quest Valour, the closest things the Hero has experienced to Fleshweaving was Aegis's fake body, and Jaania's full synchronization with Hesperrhodos, where she essentially fuses with them. So, I propose this. What if the Hero thought that devouring Elemental Spirits was for the purpose of making it easier to weave the spirit's spirit thread throughout their body to make it more malleable so it can be weaponized? It would serve as an explanation as to why the Hero can still feel Aegis despite devouring him (because they're would now be a part of the Hero's body).

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