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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII

 
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5/10/2012 13:12:46   
Ranloth
Banned


We all are, for past 3-4 months if I think.. xD
AQ Epic  Post #: 226
5/10/2012 13:40:42   
Stabilis
Member

@Goony,

Here is my response→

http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20307756
AQ Epic  Post #: 227
5/11/2012 8:54:08   
PivotalDisorder
Member

can we get rid of EMP please? 1 turn and your energy is either halved or reduced to 0. most OP skill in the game now, easily.

it's unfair that Hunters get all their energy to play with, but other classes have to do with none every match cause they have EMP
and not only can it take a ton of energy, it costs next to nothing to use it and is a matchwinning skill too often.

BH and CH can just use the same build with a low EMP and they will win majority of matches. Regardless of which class or build
I use against them, if they go first and EMP I then need a miracle to turn the fight around. Energy is important, so why is their
a skill in the game that takes so damn much? especially with Cyber Hunters, who regain their energy cost next turn with strike [SC]

I have decided I will not take part in the next war, or any other ED events, including purchasing varium, until Cyber Hunters are
nerfed. 1v1 is just horrible and is so frustrating that I now think it's the best time to leave ED and spend my money on drugs instead.

and no I am not joking, about to go out and get seriously wasted with the money I was gonna spend on ED this weekend :)

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 5/11/2012 8:55:30 >
Post #: 228
5/11/2012 8:56:43   
gangster a
Member

^ this is true i have problem with bountys and cybers beacuse the reroute cant get a lot of energy back when im battling them plus they get 3 passives which is OP in its self.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 229
5/11/2012 8:57:03   
Promaster
Member

Dont you think that a level 1 player heals only 10 health? How is that fair? Even npcs are more difficult now because of the nerf to Field Medic.
I say buff FM such that it doesn't affect the low levels this much.
AQW Epic  Post #: 230
5/11/2012 9:34:09   
Ranloth
Banned


It's funny to see how others underestimate Staff because of small changes, but miss out important information and continue their rants. Zeoth knows that fairly well, including reason why Plasma will stay. ;) Even posted it here myself but people still look for quick solutions that won't do anything really. :) xD
AQ Epic  Post #: 231
5/11/2012 11:04:34   
Zeoth
Member

^^ Yes Yes I do :D
Anyways if only I could find Ashari's stance on passives. I won't protest cyber hunters and hopefully once everything is settled Emp and PA will cease to matter.
Post #: 232
5/11/2012 15:12:08   
Ranloth
Banned


Since encumbrance is a problem, especially when it comes to build copying and Juggernaut mode had an issue with it with old range, something needs to be done. This is the very case in 2v2 as well actually, where Lvl 34 and 34 vs. 34 and 30 own all the items, and you may find Lvl 30 to be power of Lvl 34 instead which isn't fair because Lvl 34s should have advantage over 34 and 30, not big but the difference still exist. (all depends on build though too)

Anyway, my idea is to firstly along with penalizing damage which is done now which is up to -4, to also penalize stats as well. I'm gonna use few examples to back it up as well and explain it in an easier way. :)
http://epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Oblivion_Staff + http://epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Templar_Staff
Oblivion Staff has similar requirements to those of Templar Staff (30 and 40s). Difference between the weapons is 3 Levels so Oblivion Staff (33) has 33 damage whilst other one is Lvl 30 and have 30 damage. Oblivion Staff (OS) has total of +22 stat points, Templar Staff (TS) has total of +21 stat points. Now Lvl 30 character has a choice of Lvl 30 weapon or Lvl 33, so -3 damage penality or none. That's where stat encumbrance comes in, but unfortunatelly in this case it's +1 stat difference so just 1 stat point is taken away as well as -3 damage. You get stat point back at Lvl 33 in this case.

http://epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Spirit_Scythe + http://epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Dread_Staff
Requirements for both weapons are the same, 30s and 40s so their stats are fine for their level (see MPS for example). Their damage is 34 at Lvl 34 and 30 at Lvl 30, so that means weapons also have no damage leans nor stat leans; where weapon has less damage and more stats and vice versa. Total stats for Spirit Scythe (SS) is +22 whilst for Dread Staff (SS) it's +18. So that gives us 4 levels and 4 stat point difference, so in this scenario, whilst using SS you would be penalized -4 damage as well as -4 stats at Lvl 30, -3 damage and stats at Lvl 31, etc..

Difference might not be big, but makes difference in the long run and keeps it fair for others. Surely we all remember when you had to get to the level to buy specific weapon rather than get 4 levels early but it's changes so..
Remember guys, I used these weapons ONLY to compare how scaling is done, I have no more data other than this hence why this is all complex and really.. this is simplest way I can explain it in. :s

Pivotal had idea of penalizing enhancements as well, which would also prevent build copying as well as advantages of using Lvl 34 weapon with almost no penality. If a player basically picks, for example, Lvl 28 weapon rather than Lvl 32 because, he would be penalized for having less slots to use, which would be equal to Level disadvantage. So if Lvl 28 character uses Lvl 32 weapon with 7 slots, he'd have 3 slots instead, which would go up by +1 at Lvl 29, etc. This may be harsh but it stops build copying as well as class jumpers at any level who can abuse any build really because of how encumbrance works now. Simply put, players have a choice of having, let's say, Lvl 34 weapon at Lvl 30 with same power (damage and stat wise) as Lvl 30 weapon but less slots although not having to get new one next level OR get Lvl 30 weapon with full amount of slots but the weapon would get weaker as you level up (Lvl 34 weapon > Lvl 30 weapon), if you get what I mean. xD

Realised this is hard to explain and my post might not even make sense, unless you're really into numbers and actually get it all.. Simply put:
Using Lvl 30 character as an example - Lvl 34 Varium weapon would scale down to power of Lvl 30 weapon (damage and stat wise so -4 damage & -(whatever total stats you get at Lvl 30)) as well as get -4 slots at that level as a penality. All of the stuff I wrote above is basically explanation on how I got numbers and the difference but this is simplest way to put it. xP

< Message edited by Trans -- 5/11/2012 16:40:48 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 233
5/11/2012 15:31:37   
frogbones
Banned


IMO, no class should have BOTH the ability to take and gain energy.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 234
5/11/2012 15:55:43   
Stabilis
Member

^

I think so too, energy skills are basically skills that +energy or -energy. With both... a player would lack strategics because they would not worry about a) their own skills b) their opponent's skills

Players with only a +energy skill worries about their opponent's skills while players with only a -energy skill worry about their own skills. This is the reason, and shaming.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 5/11/2012 15:56:23 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 235
5/11/2012 16:47:56   
liy010
Member

Hey, did anyone notice Merc/TLM's SS requires any weapon while Mass and SC requires Wrist Blades/Staff?

Change <.< >.>
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 236
5/11/2012 16:50:33   
Ranloth
Banned


SC is a Bounty skill, so is Massacre. Evolved Classes will get new Multis, and if they make it a skill then it won't use any weapon. BHs tend to use Wrist Blades, it fits the theme and it's a Melee skill not Casting so having Mass use a Sword is a bit off. This isn't issue really, Wrist Blades = Sword, although Swords get small buff but in long run you should keep to Wrist Blades, every class has skills that require Class weapon (Maul/Staff/Wrist Blades) and if you own a Sword, tough but you're missing out on a skill.
AQ Epic  Post #: 237
5/11/2012 17:08:22   
liy010
Member

quote:

SC is a Bounty skill, so is Massacre. Evolved Classes will get new Multis, and if they make it a skill then it won't use any weapon. BHs tend to use Wrist Blades, it fits the theme and it's a Melee skill not Casting so having Mass use a Sword is a bit off. This isn't issue really, Wrist Blades = Sword, although Swords get small buff but in long run you should keep to Wrist Blades, every class has skills that require Class weapon (Maul/Staff/Wrist Blades) and if you own a Sword, tough but you're missing out on a skill.


What wut?

I assume you mean SC is a Cyber skill...?

By SC I meant Super Charge so if you made a mistake there, I apologize.

Still, I think SS should require a Club since most of Merc's (Bunker, Double Strike, Berzkerer, Artillery) and most of TLM's (Poison, FC, Double Strike) skills don't require Clubs and I can't really say a lot of skills of BH/CH require Wrist Blades either but look at TMs/BMs. Most of their skills (Plasma, Fire, Bludgeon) require Staff. So basically, it's like telling Mercs/TLM to use Swords, which are stronger than clubs and Mages to use Staves which are weaker than swords...

The bolded part is my point. Mages have to use staves but Mercs/TLMs can use Swords and be just as efficient

No offence of any sort to your opinion, just stating mine.

< Message edited by liy010 -- 5/11/2012 17:09:19 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 238
5/11/2012 17:12:08   
Ranloth
Banned


Oh Super Charge! I went by Mass and SC, so I thought of CHs straight away. o.o
Well if you think about it - why would SS require a Maul? Yes it's weird but SC needs a Staff as it's a Caster skill so obvious and Mass needs Wrist Blades as it's a Melee skill, but Merc wouldn't make sense as you don't need a Maul. I don't know what's the reasoning behind it, rather curious now actually.

Maybe SS effects are weaker to those of SC's and Mass; for no effects, Mass deals more damage instead and depends on weapon + stat rather than just stat. Or perhaps damage scales differently? I cannot answer that but want to know myself. XD
AQ Epic  Post #: 239
5/11/2012 17:33:48   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Super Charge's animation requires a staff but I don't think the skill really requires it, could be animated many different ways.
A sword is basically a sharp half-staff anyway ;)
Post #: 240
5/11/2012 17:38:16   
Arevero
Member

Apparently i stopped my rant for PA to be taken away for now, Trans has reassured me something will happen..in time ;)

And EMP is a Hunter Definite skill. Makes us more Cyber-HUNTER. Really i do not see a problem with EMP, i only use it once or twice in battle, and then again, i get atom-smashed a lot. I don't complain about that, so why should EMP be complained. If you want, put a 1-turn warmup, but seriously, as a CH, i think it's fine.

For people who ABUSE it, which i have fought before, it was really annoying, i remember a CH yesterday, FULL-UBER-TANK. About 7 heal, 5EMP, max PA, Static, and SA. And enough RES/DEF to make you go ****.

If you want, i will agree to a limit amount. Like base EP takeaway, and it cannot improve with anything. But that would probably destroy the skill as they did to Static, we CHs have had enough tweaks and twirls on our class.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 241
5/11/2012 17:48:06   
Oba
Member

^ First of, EMP cant be blocked. Make it blockable and its even with Assimilate and Atom Smasher on that part. EMP can also be improved and take away even more energy as you get higher technology.
My atom smasher is getting blocked alot for example. And I have 96 dexterity. And you say you "use it once or twice in battle"... that is basically 20-40 or 30-60 energy you take away from you enemy, depending on your amount of tech.

And for the last part... you think Static Charge is destroyed?... Please... you can get around 15-16 (around that atleast..) energy back every 3rd turn. On top of that you also take away your enemies chance to use skills with you EMP.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 242
5/11/2012 17:49:57   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@Arevero: wasn't many complaints about EMP when they had technician instead of Plasma Armour, and technician boosts EMP. also Static
Charge didn't need such a heavy nerf back then either. ever since the release of Plasma Armour CH have been a major problem.
Post #: 243
5/11/2012 17:55:22   
ScarletReaper
Member

@frogbones, so you say no class should be able to take and gain energy? So where does that leave the finally "balanced" tacmercs with reroute and atom smasher. Yes I know atom smasher is blockable, but so is static charge. I do agree we need to get rid of emp, but just saying. :p
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 244
5/11/2012 19:03:19   
Arevero
Member

That is why i urge for PA to be taken, nevertheless the staff does want to. So basically, it isn't our fault, nor staff, we just cannot make an agreement, of course i hoped that mods would come more and heed us in our conversations, and interact with us as players, not many mods in ED do that compared to AQW, or DF.

And Oba, i have seen TLMs spam Atom me, and i did not block every single one, only block 1 atom when i was atomed 6-7 times in battle, how much EP is that? And also, the TLM was a tank, with max reroute, 4 heal etc and you know the rest. And if your Atom is being blocked a lot, blame luck, not another SKILL.

Also like i said, if you want, put a 1 turn warmup on it, or add a set amount of EP takeaway OR just swap tiers!

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 245
5/11/2012 19:14:20   
frogbones
Banned


Well, tac mercs and cybers can do both (gain/take away energy) AND they have a passive armor to boot.

Interestingly enough, it is Cybers who are the most OP, though, imo.

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 246
5/11/2012 19:18:49   
Ez_Ease
Member

Frenzy and Atom Smaher already requires a club I think that is enough for the TLM
Epic  Post #: 247
5/11/2012 19:20:33   
Oba
Member

I dont blame the skill. I was just pointing out that CH's can drain enemies energy with a unblockable skill. And I as a Merc have no possibility to regain any energy from reroute, as the scenario was with you against that TLM.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 248
5/11/2012 19:28:07   
Arevero
Member

You have adrenaline, a passive, along with hybrid, a passive. It fairs out with Chs and TLMs. Also, Merc was based on tanking or STR builds. Like before, others have suggested Mercs to gain EP from rage attacks, with kinda synergizes with Adrenaline, you can try and prompt something like that, but mods declared they want more versatile skills, EP regain is too old-fashioned now.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 249
5/11/2012 19:30:35   
Oba
Member

And you have SA and Plasma armor, both passives... so how does that even it out?

< Message edited by Oba -- 5/11/2012 19:34:44 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 250
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