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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII

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5/29/2012 15:27:56   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

  • Make Assimilation the 4th tier skill for Blood Mage replacing Reflex Boost


    • Whoa whoa whoa, Reflex Boost is a handy utility as a Blood Mage skill. It provides a means of restoring energy for health heavy builds, and a defensive means for Support heavy builds. Why swap those 2, is this a nerf or a buff? Dexterity is not as proficient a skill when the main attack is but Overload. Melee accuracy is not something to expect with the Blood Mage skill tree, so utilizing a blockable skill is no better than Reflex Boost. Why not have Assimilation and Reflex Boost and Assimilation in the same skill tree? Reflex Boost + Assimilation = increased melee accuracy + minor Reroute effect + minor EMP effect + minor Static Charge effect.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 626
    5/29/2012 15:43:16   
    JohnMenzies
    Member

    		@Depressed Void,

    Do you at least support any of the three suggestion I made?
    Epic  Post #: 627
    5/29/2012 16:56:02   
    Combatoid
    Member

    		@liy010

    When you said that fireball was useless that was utterly false since bloodlust makes it so that the player has to have high strength.

    Also EMP is unblockable and Atom isn't. SC has no limit of potential energy you could gain(2 loop healer ch could go on forever) and Reroute does.

    In the first place I just reccomended that they either return maul or a stronger frenzy, like it once was, or add a new skill called Haze. Haze will be like smokescreen but it won't effect the player's defence against physical dmg.


    @ily010 Once again.

    Lol? Look at my previous posts about Haze. It would probably replace FC. Haze will be a VERY usefull stat in all fights.

    Posts merged, please do not double post. -SMGS

    < Message edited by SMGS -- 5/29/2012 20:09:04 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 628
    5/29/2012 17:27:41   
    liy010
    Member

    		Oh so all of a sudden now since you have Bloodlust you MUST have high strength? No. I know people who use 5 focus BM and they don't have high STR....Ever occur to you that you don't need to invest in Bloodlust? After all it is just a normal skill. With your logic, since CH has PA, they need high Dex so don't go spazzing about us Dex cybers

    I don't think you understand...

    FC>Haze

    If you're unlucky, Haze does NOTHING so you just wasted EP
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 629
    5/29/2012 17:34:01   
    Combatoid
    Member

    		@ily010

    Sometimes when people use smokescreen they don't get a lot of blocks. That is why Haze will need to be a more substantial effect on block chances.

    If you use it correctly you will definately notice something.


    Most of the skills such as bludgeon as BM increase with str and roughly 90% of bm's have high str

    < Message edited by Combatoid -- 5/29/2012 17:36:53 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 630
    5/29/2012 17:57:51   
    liy010
    Member

    quote:

    When you said that fireball was useless that was utterly false since bloodlust makes it so that the player has to have high strength.


    Take a look at this.

    Oh my god, I have Max BloodLust and Low STR! I accomplished the impossible!

    The point isn't about that. The point is, in your previous post you said that as long as a Class doesn't have a skill to increase Stat X, that means all skills that improve with stat X are useless

    Back to Haze.

    Look at this.

    Smokescreen Battle.

    Player A uses Smoke, does 10 DMG
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG (Increased because of Smoke)
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 15 DMG
    In the end, Player A did 15 more DMG thanks to Smoke

    Haze Battle

    Player A uses Haze, does 10 DMG
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player B Strikes, does 10 DMG
    Player A Strikes, does 10 DMG
    In the end, Player A did no more Damage and since he was unlucky, he didn't get any blocks. Haze was useless and wasted his EP
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 631
    5/29/2012 18:05:01   
    Stabilis
    Member

    		@JohnMenzies,

    I support:

    quote:

    1. Make Assimilation steal 16 energy at max.
    -or-
    2. Make Assimilation's energy steal unblock-able, but the damage block-able.
    AQ Epic  Post #: 632
    5/29/2012 19:10:46   
    Renegade Reaper
    Member

    		i support making the energy steal from assimilation unblockable.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 633
    5/29/2012 19:29:59   
    Retrosaur
    Member
     
    quote:

    i support making the energy steal from assimilation unblockable.

    Then make Atom Smasher unblockable.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 634
    5/29/2012 20:18:09   
    Combatoid
    Member

    		@liy010
    I get what you're saying. However Haze will decrease the block and hit chance of the enemy substantially. Such as:
    1 Haze:Decreases enemy hit chance and block chance by 10% for 3 turns(as long as smokescreen)
    2 Haze:13%
    3 Haze:16%
    4 Haze:18%
    5 Haze:20%
    6 Haze:22%
    7 Haze:24%
    8 Haze:25%
    9 Haze:26%
    MAX Haze:27%

    It is sort of like shadow arts but it'll be more effective and not be a passive.

    It's be more like:
    Player A attacks Player B with Haze
    Player A hits 10
    Player B hits 10
    Player A hits 9
    Player B gets blocked
    Player A hits 12
    Player B hits 13


    It won't be a big difference, but it will make the skill very effective and be gamechanging. I also suggested that ED adds Maul and a strengthened Frenzy back. This will simply restore some balance and make it a small bit easier to take on TM,BM,BH,(Mercenary not as much),and CH.
    I would be very thankful if these skills and suggestions were thought about. The percentages of increase for Haze won't have to be that high either.
    It would be like SA, it's simply an addition to the luck factor. If you don't get any blocks then you are simply unlucky.


    @ lit010
    You more like accomplished the uncommon.

    Posts merged, please do not double post. --SMGS

    < Message edited by SMGS -- 5/29/2012 21:10:25 >
    AQW Epic  Post #: 635
    5/29/2012 20:45:09   
    King Helios
    Member

    		Here's my two cents for Tacticals.

    *Change Stun Grenade back to Maul.
    *Increase Frenzy to 35% at Level 1, and make it usable by a sword.
    *Make Toxic Grenade require a club/maul, to balance it with Venom Strike (kinda).
    AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 636
    5/29/2012 20:50:33   
    Combatoid
    Member

    		^
    I agree, that would be a great idea.






    Combatoid Out.
    AQW Epic  Post #: 637
    5/29/2012 20:50:37   
    Renegade Reaper
    Member

    		atom smasher is a little OP, if they made it unblock able, than they should reduce its effectiveness. it takes very little energy
    to use but it can still take a lot of energy away, even at level 1.

    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 638
    5/29/2012 21:52:19   
    King Helios
    Member

    		Change to Frenzy!

    Currently, it is based off of how much (damage) you do. However, I propose for this to be the new formula.

    [(Strength Range * .75) + (Weapon Damage * .75 - Encumberance * 2)] (Frenzy Boost).

    Frenzy Boost is what you'd guess.

    So, a player with 12-15 +36 -2 Primary would get 9-11 +27 -4, or 32-34. If they have a Level 1 Frenzy (I proposed 35%), then the range would be 11.2 (rounded to 11) - 12.25 (rounded to 12).
    AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 639
    5/29/2012 21:54:20   
    Joe10112
    Member

    		@^: A level 1 Frenzy heals about 12 HP, while a level 8 static charge heals about 13-15 EP? Sounds a little too much for me.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 640
    5/29/2012 22:00:24   
    King Helios
    Member

    		If a Level 1 Field Medic at 34 heals about 33 HP for 17 Energy, then Energy is twice the value of HP.

    AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 641
    5/29/2012 22:05:58   
    liy010
    Member

    quote:

    I get what you're saying. However Haze will decrease the block and hit chance of the enemy substantially. Such as:
    1 Haze:Decreases enemy hit chance and block chance by 10% for 3 turns(as long as smokescreen)
    2 Haze:13%
    3 Haze:16%
    4 Haze:18%
    5 Haze:20%
    6 Haze:22%
    7 Haze:24%
    8 Haze:25%
    9 Haze:26%
    MAX Haze:27%


    Whew, Finally.
    The thing about your skill is that it relies heavily on luck and knowing ED's "Luck" factor, I'd rather not take my chances.
    Once in 2vs2, I got hit by a Critical, 3 times in a row, by a person who had 6 Less Support than me. That shows how "Lucky" I am.
    I'd rather have a skill that I can see a difference such as Deadly Aim. Most CHs want Deadly Aim in exchange for Shadow Arts because well, since Plasma Grenade is super UP, no one uses it (No offence, Raine) therefore, the 10% stun chance is useless.
    The 10% block chance is barely noticeable and got a Mere 10%, you need it on Max. 10% increase Block chance only wins you maybe 1/10 battles?
    This is why I have my Shadow Arts at level 1, mostly because I have no other useful skill to put that last point into and the fact that Max PA is a bit overkill "-.-

    quote:

    So, a player with 12-15 +36 -2 Primary would get 9-11 +27 -4, or 32-34. If they have a Level 1 Frenzy (I proposed 35%), then the range would be 11.2 (rounded to 11) - 12.25 (rounded to 12).


    12 HP...That's 1 point away from a Max Static Charge...Since HP is more useful than EP, I think this is a bit overkill.

    My suggestion for Tactical Mercs (Based off Combatoid's skill and whoever said this before on Balance thread, Credits to you)

    Smash (Yes, very creative...)
    Energy required: 10 at level 1, increase by 2 each level
    Stat Required: 14 Support at level 1, +2 per level
    Improves with: None
    Weapon Required: Maul/Club
    Progression...
    Level 1: -2 Defence Points
    Level 2: -3 Defence Points
    Level 3: -4 Defence Points
    Level 4: -5 Defence Points
    Level 5: -6 Defence Points
    Level 6: -7 Defence Points
    Level 7: -8 Defence Points
    Level 8: -9 Defence Points
    Level 9: -10 Defence Points
    Level 10: -11 Defence Points

    This skill takes off only Defence and that's it. May be debuffed by (Rusted) Assault Bot

    This could work for CHs too but instead it would be resistance, not Defence

    @Above yes, but if Energy is twice the value of HP, why would you need to Heal? It's because once you run out of HP, YOU DIE! You run out of EP, you still live.

    < Message edited by liy010 -- 5/29/2012 22:07:01 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 642
    5/29/2012 22:06:23   
    Joe10112
    Member

    		@^: You mean EP is 1/2 value of HP? I'd take 24 HP over 12 EP right now. Why? 12 EP doesn't do ANYTHING. 24 HP = 1 attack "negated".
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 643
    5/29/2012 23:06:28   
    JohnMenzies
    Member

    		@hypedxlord
    If Atom Smash were to be unblock-able, then it would be too Over-powered.
    Epic  Post #: 644
    5/30/2012 0:51:41   
    Midnightsoul
    Member

    		debuffs should not be debuff+strike
    it should just decrease the opponent's stat only
    this will help prevent str builders from gathering rage points too fast


    CH's need some kind of move that will increase a stat
    I suggest a support increasing move that improves with dex


    TLM's need technician again

    blood shield moves to the blood mages but make sure the move becomes lvl scaled now/otherwise, leave energy shield if fireball is nerfed

    fireball should increase by 2 dmg at lvls 4-7 and 1 dmg at lvls 8-10 meaning there's a diminishing effect

    tech is too OP'ed. it improves resistance faster than dex increases defense, weakens bots, and increases deflection rate. i say tech improves resistance the EXACT same scaling as dex

    massacre lvl 1 and berzerker lvl 1 shouldnt do the same dmg
    DF AQW Epic  Post #: 645
    5/30/2012 0:57:11   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    		I definitely support a change to Frenzy, it is so lame that players only use it as a backup hit, like on rage. should be good enough to create a build around it IMO.
    the problem with the skill is either it is deemed too powerful for TLM, so they nerf it into oblivion, then no one complains about it, so it is deemed balance.

    terrible way to "balance" skills.

    < Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 5/30/2012 0:58:18 >
    Post #: 646
    5/30/2012 2:26:05   
    khalidon5000
    Member

    		liy010

    Your idea for the skill taking away DEFENSE is bad because at max it takes away 11 and 11x4 = 44 dexterity points, while smoke takes away like 35 on most builds I've seen.
    If you remember the beginning of delta when tactical mercenaries were oped because they had smokescreen which gave them too much synergy.
    Epic  Post #: 647
    5/30/2012 2:43:23   
    Joe10112
    Member

    		@^: Trans posted on Page 1 (first post) about his idea of Conduction, which is basically the energy form of what Liy "suggested" (probably had conduction in mind?) Smokescreen lowers DEX = lowers block chance/connect chance. Taking away purely defense leaves the DEX intact, which means that block chance/connect chance is not affected, and some skills that rely on DEX are not affected. To "make up" for this, you add some more defense/resistance points taken away to balance it out.
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 648
    5/30/2012 2:48:03   
    PivotalDisorder
    Member

    		@Joe: I take it the new skill wouldn't stack with Smoke Screen or Malfunction?
    Post #: 649
    5/30/2012 2:53:22   
    Joe10112
    Member

    		@^: IDK, it's Trans' idea, ask him when he gets unbanned. He said (oh geez, this better not get deleted since I'm "posting" on behalf of a banned player) that he scrapped the idea after he heard about the Passives revamp will be soon incoming. I'd have no clue about it, since it is his idea. Talk to him in-game about it or something.

    (Seriously if my post here gets deleted because I'm "posting on behalf of a banned player", I have no words. This is legitimate, my previous one with the links to twitlonger might have been...incorrect, but this one...just no.)
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 650
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