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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII

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5/3/2012 18:29:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 Enhancements to HP/EP? No.. <.<
That's the drawback of Focus builds. If you decide to go for them then of course there's a drawback but you can go for Focus 4 and free up 20 stat points at cost of 6 damage which can be made up by putting some points in Tech instead if your build needs it.

Surprised you noticed that just now, drawback was always lack of stats for cost of using Bots and being able to Tank as well.
AQ Epic  Post #: 51
5/3/2012 18:32:59   
Mr. Black OP
Member

This may seem like a crazy idea, but this could theoretically destroy enhancements.
Release 6 more levels. For the Weapons: have the damage be slightly higher that they should (a lv 40 weapon with 42-44 damage), higher defenses for the armors, same stats as level 30 weapons but no enhancements for these weapons.
Now with these weapons with no enhancements being better than those with enhancements people will leave those behind and go for these. Enhancements are the main cause of balance problems so with those gone the higher levels will not be too bad in terms of balance. Also since we are not getting rid of them people who bought a lot of enhancements won't feel as ripped off because they aren't being taken away.
Epic  Post #: 52
5/3/2012 18:46:03   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

Enhancements to HP/EP? No.. <.<


But why? Not even equipment that boosts health or energy at the cost of basic stats?

quote:

Focus 4 and free up 20 stat points at cost of 6 damage which can be made up by putting some points in Tech instead if your build needs it.


Removing 5 off of each stat reduces STR damage by at least 1, DEX Defense by at least 1, TEC Resistance by at least 1, and SUP damage by at least 1. 20 stat points is not equal to 1 level of Focus though, because at the greatest, 20 Technology will raise Robot damage by 4 points while 5th Focus will raise Robot damage by 6 points. 20 stat points can be transmuted into 40 health or energy points, but because of Agility we will have to assume that 125 health is the maximum since 126 or more health will cause serious decreases in protection. Focus 5 has balanced stats spread out so high numbers of Defense & Resistance is not possible at all. That leaves the class with inaccurate connect chances for weapons, including it's strongest weapon, Robots, for which blocks will reduce damage to zero.

5th Focus is most optimal of all Focus levels but that often leaves health in the gutter. A means of having more health and energy must exist. Otherwise the build will always have a predictable # of any stat at all. The only way to customize is with different equipment and enhancements, which sometimes cost varium, something that not all players can afford. 5th Focus comes with great power, but... very few options, and that does not sit well with me.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 5/3/2012 18:49:14 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 53
5/4/2012 2:22:44   
Arevero
Member

ENH already runs freely enough from armor to all your weps, adding ENH to HP/EP wouldn't work. With that, many people could make massive HP builds without drawback, hence as Trans said 5-Focus goes out of control. But you do state that 5F builds have a problem, that there is left over points, easy answer is add a few extra EP and use the rest to increase your dex/str/tech.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 54
5/4/2012 2:27:30   
Ranloth
Banned


 And I want to note, as Level raises you get more stat points. We're probably gonna see at least one Level raise (it happens every year so let's hope), so it could be even 2 Levels which gives you 8 points. Sure isn't a lot but that transforms to 16 HP/EP or just 8 stats if you wish so.
Creative builds ahve freedom of putting their stats anywhere they want, Focus decides to pay the penality for having equal stats but being jack-of-all-trades and master-of-nothing, and lacks stat points for the time being. And I really don't see how hard it's to give +6 damage (Focus 5 -> 4) for more freedom. You can always make that HP, which is 40HP more, and that allows you to survive much longer with good defences. Suviving longer = more damage dealt over the course of whole battle.
AQ Epic  Post #: 55
5/4/2012 6:18:16   
drinde
Member

quote:

Luck Reduction Idea

How about this:

Once you have Blocked/Deflected/Criticaled, in the next turn, your base B/D/C chance is reduced by 5%. This would stop making luck so potent in battles. This affects ALL the chances, if you've Blocked, your Deflection and Critical chance is reduced as well.


Commentes?

And I don't think Enhancements should be allowed to boost HP. They already have too much reign...
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 56
5/4/2012 7:27:37   
Arevero
Member

Luck is another one of those unique ED things, although it may change the course of a whole battle, it may turn the tables for you, or your enemy, the fact that there is a 5 lvl range difference is due to luck, perhaps some block a lot, or crit a lot, or deflect a lot, but consider this, they dispense A-LOT of stat points into a particular stat, hence luck is formed. If they only put say 15-25 stat points, it wouldn't be as better to those with more dex/tech/sup.

What i do support, is once a player's stat is reduced to 0 or below, they cannot have any chance of luck during their rounds. But keep in mind that even if they have 1 dex left, they may still block any time, that is what 'Luck' is about in ED, as long it's not below 0% chance, it will occur, even if it was 1 in a million chance, it will happen, just unlikely.

Luck may ruin a skill-based player, since a lot of players prefer skill over luck, but Luck is just one of those things that make ED unique, keep in mind it won't happen EVERY-TIME, the fact that you block/deflect/crit a few times is already REALLY LUCKY.

It's called luck for a reason, so i disagree to reducing luck by 5% every time it happens.

Just an opinion though, feel free to state your own reasons and contradict me.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 57
5/4/2012 7:42:54   
i like bounty hunter
Member

The Reason I Play ED Is Because Of Luck
I Dont Think There Is Any Other Game That Depends On Luck
Thus Makes ED Unique.
So Stop Complaining About Luck And Deal With It

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 58
5/4/2012 7:59:26   
RageSoul
Member

Problem is that maybe the Devs didn't considered about haywired RNG messing up the game and it's players , thus making ED feel more like everything SHOULD BE BALANCED ... even player skill . Oh well . But still , i'm with against the minimum luck because why do you guys think some builds are too hard to beat ? Isn't it because of the minimums? Sure they help ... but still no , because STR with puny DEX even W/O SA still blocks .
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
5/4/2012 8:19:09   
drinde
Member

Sure, luck is good and all, but what I suggest stops luck from chaining. Would anyone like to be Deflected-Criticaled-Blocked in a row?
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 60
5/4/2012 8:20:51   
RageSoul
Member

@drinde
Exactly! Especially if they tend to have either low SUPP / DEX / TECH .
AQW Epic  Post #: 61
5/4/2012 8:26:51   
drinde
Member

....

You twisted my idea. xD

Players are suppose to like the game.

New idea:

Agility affects one's OFFENSES, not Defenses. This would cut off High DMG - High HP Builds.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 62
5/4/2012 8:36:01   
Arevero
Member

Drinde you are possible the fastest-idea-thinker i have met on the forums. xD

You get an idea in a minute or 2, and before we know it, another one comes up, it's your chains of ideas rather than chains of blocks/deflects/crits xD

Not a bad thing though, we were meant to discuss...

Now, if Agility changed to offensive, then the first thing would be, STR builds possible extinction, and HP going up to 125+ with NO drawback AT ALL. Try that with a dex build or tech build or tank build even, with 125hp, people won't even go near defeating you, besides, every stat should be advantaged in the same way, if STR is to change, so is DEX/TECH/SUP. But really, Agility is fine as it is now :p

Although they could just lower the gap a bit, make it instead of 95HP till reduction, make it about 100hp, just a thought...
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 63
5/4/2012 8:40:47   
drinde
Member

:P

Actually, these ideas are old ones thought up in random places, I just chase them around in my brain until they submit and come back into the light.

Damage reduction means ALL ATTACKS, so TECH abuse may get discouraged. :P

What if... we made it like that, reduce maximum block chance by 10% and make the minimum DMG per turn 10 DMG?

< Message edited by drinde -- 5/4/2012 8:52:43 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 64
5/4/2012 8:53:47   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Agility was made because health was too powerful. It sometimes was capable of dwarfing the usefulness of actually investing in dex or tech since one health point=2 health and 3 dex points=1 defense. So for one third of the stats, one could get a pseudo 2 points of defense. High health combined with high defenses will be hard to beat. It wasn't done in the past simply because of the lack of enhancements to do such. One could still spam defensive improving skills(Stun Grenade, Surgical, Bunker, Plasma Bolt, etc.)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 65
5/4/2012 9:06:31   
RageSoul
Member

@drinde
No , that will make mah build weaker , and besides , BH and Merc already had problems with survivability so sorry , i have to disagree with it .

Now i'm getting to understand why alot of people want Agility go bye-bye , makes them less tough when they make awesome builds .
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
5/4/2012 10:44:51   
midnight santa
Member

Sometimes it is luck. But most times, it is hacking of blocks and crits and deflects by hakers.
I use tink im unluky but i notice same players get very lucky on me. I dunno if titan know how to stop hakers...
Epic  Post #: 67
5/4/2012 11:07:14   
khalidon5000
Member

^^^
Trust me it's not hackers.
You are just having a unlucky streak.
Epic  Post #: 68
5/4/2012 11:12:24   
Oba
Member

quote:

Sometimes it is luck. But most times, it is hacking of blocks and crits and deflects by hakers.
I use tink im unluky but i notice same players get very lucky on me. I dunno if titan know how to stop hakers...


Lol'd
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 69
5/4/2012 11:32:43   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

But you do state that 5F builds have a problem, that there is left over points, easy answer is add a few extra EP and use the rest to increase your dex/str/tech.


@Arevero,

You did read my message on the end of page 2, right? For any player to achieve 5th Focus, 100 stat points are already set. Even for the highest level in EpicDuel, that means that there is a maximum of 32 stat points free. AND, your health is still the lowest value. So... you have 32 stat points to spend on health and energy which is usually at 95-125. Well, even at the "lowest" accepted value, 95 health, would leave the player with 7-8 stat points. 7-8 stat points is worth up to 111 health or 2 increases of damage or Defense/Resistance at the maximum. And you still say I have dispensable points to use on Dexterity/Technology? Health and energy is limited to a head vice for points, and all stats are balanced, so there is no one advantage besides being able to use a Robot to it's greatest potential.

What I am asking for is the freedom to increase health and energy better for Focus at the cost of basic stats, it is a fair trade off, but we are restricted from doing so.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 5/4/2012 11:33:47 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 70
5/4/2012 11:34:17   
Joe10112
Member

quote:

Sometimes it is luck. But most times, it is hacking of blocks and crits and deflects by hakers.
I use tink im unluky but i notice same players get very lucky on me. I dunno if titan know how to stop hakers...


It is 99% luk. Most times, it is not haking bloks and creets. I always kno dat i'm unluky, kuz eff u guise use hax, den u are gonna are get BANHAMMER. i c sum ppl are get rly luky, but ukno, it r n matter, i meeself are get rly luky against sum ppl too. Titan are kno how 2 stop haker, or else he are can hire haker 2 make ED better kuz he can have the haker put up beeter defens against hakers.

Usually it's just the RNG being mean. I tend to find I have off-days where I just drop a bunch of battles for no reason. Then the next day I came back and block a STR BM Bludgeon, deflect a Gun attack, get a critical and stuff, and beat a level 34 BM...many times. And then I go on to win a Broken Drop, and it gives me 1000 free credits. Some days you are lucky, some days you arn't.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
5/4/2012 18:10:05   
Arevero
Member

@Void

Problem isn't only about 5F builds, it can also affect every other build, and ENH already have enough power over players.

And what i usually do is just add the left over pts into EP.


Also, i was criticized again, as a hacker during yesterday's battles, i do not see hacking as a fun thing to do, because mods/staff will know how to track hackers down, and i have also battled STR BMs where i raged gun and would have won, when they deflected, well accept it, not the end of the world.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 72
5/4/2012 18:22:34   
Algorithm
Member

'I dunno if titan know how to stop hakers...' lol.
Post #: 73
5/5/2012 20:49:43   
ScarletReaper
Member

I think now I can see where the dev's think ch's aren't overpowered. I got my level 30 tacmerc to have a tank/strength build that I made that I beat cyberhunters of my level and even 1 or two above me with. To me, this says that maybe they aren't as op'ed as people think if I can beat them with the supposed Balanced class.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 74
5/5/2012 22:32:21   
Joe10112
Member

Okay, I'm voting for this change to CH:

Plasma Armor -> Technician
Plasma Grenade buffed (in terms of damage, way too low right now)
Multi-Shot replaced by an Energy Multi that improves with TECH.

This way, CH now have two unblockable skills that improve with the same thing, just like every single other class. (See my post in the last Balance Discussion Thread, near the end of the thread, page like 27/28.)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 75
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