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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X

 
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8/31/2012 16:33:53   
Calogero
Member

Infernal Promo = Increased Crit damage
Support = Higher chance to Crit
Bunker Buster with Infernal and Increased crit chance while it allready has a 25% crit chance

Yea nice idea there....
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 701
8/31/2012 16:34:17   
khalidon5000
Member

Ridiculously overpowered.
Add 18% to the base of 4% (Not including ANY support advantages) and you get 22%.
That's approximately a 1 in 5 chance of critical hitting! So every 5 rounds you will have a critical hit.
Combined with the infernal interdictor that would make a potent combination.

Would be plausible if it had a maximum of 10%.

Also @Calogero
25% crit chance is the maximum I think so it wouldn't be added to bunker buster.

< Message edited by khalidon5000 -- 8/31/2012 16:35:49 >
Epic  Post #: 702
8/31/2012 16:35:37   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

I would like to see that build, with 70 damage plus 42 def/res
I don't see how you can get stats that high
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 703
8/31/2012 16:37:03   
Mother1
Member

Kingpowerlord that would be tricky since Merc does have Bunker blaster a move that already has a 1 in 4 chance to crit. For starters you would need to make sure it doesn't stack with Bunker Blaster.

Second I can see this skill being abused already. With the right combination of items and build this skill will OP mercs big time. With the right amount of support you will have the max of 20% chance to crit, add this to the max out striking gale and it will be up to 38% which is 13% higher then the three moves that give you the chance to crit and strikes moves with a person using high support with the azreal curse or bane.

Oh and if you use the azreal bane or curse then with this build it will be 43% chance for crits with strikes. Or if you use the infernal interdictor with that build with every move having 38 percent chance to crit it would not only OP mercs but throw the game out of balance as well. While I agree merc's need a buff, this one isn't it as it would be OP.
Epic  Post #: 704
8/31/2012 16:39:16   
Stabilis
Member

@Khalidon,

You are correct about the maximums, but skills (passive skills) can bypass the maximums, for example, Shadow Arts can raise the block chance from the maximum of 40% to 50%
AQ Epic  Post #: 705
8/31/2012 16:45:15   
Steel Slayer
Member

@Smackie, the hybrid armor nerf was part of a larger rebalancing thing they did with level scaling on skills, the other armor passives got nerfed too, bunch of other stuff, think it was the August 3rd patch.
Epic  Post #: 706
8/31/2012 16:47:43   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

@ void
I think it's 35 to max 45%
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 707
8/31/2012 16:50:16   
khalidon5000
Member

Ahh thanks for the correction Void.
Anyway I think we can all agree that the Crit passive suggested is way too overpowered.
Epic  Post #: 708
8/31/2012 16:52:11   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Well currently adrenaline passive is way underpowered
Maybe it's time for a more useful passive
I mean BM has DA and BL, two of my favorite passives in game
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 709
8/31/2012 16:59:52   
Steel Slayer
Member

@blaze

quote:

I would like to see that build, with 70 damage plus 42 def/res
I don't see how you can get stats that high


I saw a guy just yesterday using this, so i remember it well. Guy had 26-32 on def+resist from stats, +10 on both from Delta Knight and Hybrid Armor. Had 21-26 Strength base, max Blood Commander got it to 28-34+35 damage weapon(OK, its a 69 damage strike). He also had 125 health. I wouldnt have belived it myself if iI hadnt seen it.

EDIT: PS he had max Adrenaline, attacking my Dex Tank CH, he didnt rage all that much, ill agree Adrenaline looks broken.

< Message edited by Steel Slayer -- 8/31/2012 17:06:07 >
Epic  Post #: 710
8/31/2012 17:00:33   
Mother1
Member

Here is one

reinforcement boost
Improves support while converting 20% damage into energy
Improves with dex
cost 10 energy and + 2 for each level up.

Level 1 12 support points
Level 2 13 support points
Level 3 14 support points
Level 4 15 support points
Level 5 16 support points
Level 6 17 support points
Level 7 18 support points
Level 8 19 support points
Level 9 20 support points
Level 10 21 support points

With this one it would be like reflex boost but with support. This would help with support based moves, and would solve the problem of mercs not getting energy back.
Epic  Post #: 711
8/31/2012 17:04:48   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

@Mother1
What would it replace, because you can't replace a passive with a not passive :/
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 712
8/31/2012 17:07:11   
Mother1
Member

Blaze they did the reverse of this when they took out blood shield for adrenaline. So I don't see what the problem would be with removing Adrenaline for the Reinforcement boost.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/31/2012 17:08:04 >
Epic  Post #: 713
8/31/2012 17:12:54   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Because passive skills are the main factor in many wins
As useless as it may be, giving Merc one less passive would put them at a disadvantage
Blood Shield was not passive, you sacrificed life to get the defense
This you would be removing a skill (I know it's useless... But it's still passive) that requires no cost and no turn to use, to replace it with a skill that takes a turn to use, costs energy, for a chance to get energy back (If they went on the defensive until this ran out)

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 714
8/31/2012 17:22:02   
kingpowerlord
Member

Give merc more support?

Support abuse... Multi...auxilary...

Also I have a better passive:

Reduce incoming damage by:
1.5%
2.7%
3.9%
4.11%
5.13%
6.15%
7.17%
8.18%
9.19%
10.20%

Not too op basically amounting to your opponent losing 1 turn every 5 turns if at max.

How about it?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 715
8/31/2012 17:23:37   
Mother1
Member

Blaze the passive as you said in itself is worthless so basically it is a waste of Skill points since these isn't any difference between having it as a passive or not. At least with the Idea I thought of while it mercs would have only one passive, they would also be gaining the increase chance to crit, powering up their BC as well as artillery strike and intimadate. I was doing going to make it a passive at first but as a Passive I thought it might have been OP so that was why I made it a skill.
Epic  Post #: 716
8/31/2012 17:24:15   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

@King
Not bad
It's useful, but not OP
What would the requirements be? Support?

EDIT@mother1

I think as a passive (remove the energy regain part) it could be useful
But then you couldnt make it require support
deadly aim doesnt require strength
Malf doesnt require tech
smoke doesnt require dex
these are just examples that skills shouldnt require themselves...

@bellow, i didnt say it would, i was just saying it couldnt

< Message edited by Blaze The Aion Ender -- 8/31/2012 17:36:59 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 717
8/31/2012 17:30:12   
Mother1
Member

Kingpowerlord Not a bad skill, however I could see tank mercs abusing this one big time. Especially the Bunker blasting builds who spam tech. It would be like adding another coat to their hybrid armor, and would make the tanks mercs even more hard to beat.

Blaze when I made the skill up I had chosen dex since Merc's don't have any moves that improve with dex. I never made it improve with support.

Kingpowerlord then how about making it the aux version of deadly aim instead? This way they would be getting powered up, but it won't be stacked with the multi?

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/31/2012 17:33:40 >
Epic  Post #: 718
8/31/2012 17:30:43   
Steel Slayer
Member

@king, not bad idea, except Mercs already have Hybrid armor, which reduces incoming damage. 2 armor passives on 1 class would be kinda OP. Ive been kinda thinking, since they have so many melee skills, it could be fun to give Mercs something like a reverse Shadow Arts, reducing chance to BE blocked and stunned. Could call it Irresistable Force, or something like that.
Epic  Post #: 719
8/31/2012 17:33:09   
kingpowerlord
Member

Dex requirement,

But I do think mother1s idea will lead to support abuse, and opness.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 720
8/31/2012 17:35:35   
Steel Slayer
Member

/agree with king, mother1, your idea+ Blood commader? Wow, I just gained 67 strength!
Epic  Post #: 721
8/31/2012 17:38:05   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

I kinda like the reverse shadow arts idea

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 722
8/31/2012 17:47:20   
kingpowerlord
Member

Not a bad idea, maybe the same scaling as the one I just mentioned.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 723
8/31/2012 20:19:41   
Stabilis
Member

If you have a 100 point advantage in Technology in a 1V1 battle, you should be the one who deflects and not the one who is deflected, right? So, here is an old suggestion that has been modified that might bring joy to all players at the same time as enhancing gameplay. Well, EpicDuel is classified a strategy game... so this suggestion may indeed add a whole new element of fun strategy on the topic of blocks, deflections, critical strikes, and stuns. Instead of being determined by random number generating code, the battle perks will occur at player input. This involves extra decision-making for players, and may as a result encourage more cause-and-effect strategical thinking which adds more tension or more excitement to the gameplay.

How this would work is that we play using counters of these in-battle perks. This feature will replace luck-based battle perks.

The first turn perk from Support is a once per battle occurrence, so whoever has the highest Support stat total should play the first turn. If 2 opposing players ever had the same Support value, the player with the lowest Agility goes first. If both players have the same Agility, RNG is used for a 50% chance to start. Support also perks critical strike and stunning, and these may occur more than once. Here is the idea of counters: counters are the number of charges of a battle perk that can be used by the player in battle. For example if P1 has 2 critical hit charges, P1 can choose to critical strike 2 times in a battle. The number of charges on counters would be calculated by the difference in stat points between opposing players. Here is a progression for determining the number of counter charges:

0- Difference in Stat Points: 0 Counters

1+ Difference in Stat Points: 1 Counter

20+ Difference in Stat Points: 2 Counters

40+ Difference in Stat Points: 3 Counters - Maximum

So, if for example, we had P1 VS P2 with the following stats (stats from equipment and enhancement included):

P1
STR = 100 (base + mods)
DEX = 40
TEC = 20
SUP = 40

P2
STR = 30
DEX = 70
TEC = 70
SUP = 30

In battle, P1 would receive 1 Critical Strike Counter, and 1 Stun Counter. P2 would receive 2 Block Counters, and 3 Deflect Counters.

Mechanics:

  • players receive their counters at the start of a battle

  • in 2V2 and Juggernaut, the player with the highest stat in Technology, Dexterity, or Support, compares their stat to the highest value of the same stat of the opposing players' side to determine the number of charges, any counters gained are also given to their partner EXAMPLE1

  • players may use as many of their counters that they have in a battle

  • using a counter does not end a turn, but may only be used on the player's own turn by clicking on the counter before clicking an action EXAMPLE2

  • all counters have a cooldown of 3 turns, cooldowns are not shared, cooldowns of different types have unique cooldowns

  • all counters have a 1 turn warmup

  • counters that have been played remain in battle until activated EXAMPLE3

  • counters can stack EXAMPLE4

  • counters are not visible in battle to other players

  • counters do not effect or proc on skills

  • all skills cannot be blocked, deflected, or go critical

  • counters only affect weapons

  • skills with a chance to stun (such as Stun Grenade) require a stun counter to stun... stunning is guaranteed but only occurs with a stun counter in play

  • the bonus to critical strike on skills (such as Bunker Buster) is replaced with armour ignore

  • anticounters are temporary counters that are created for the player when a stat nerf skill (Smokescreen, Malfunction) or stat buff skill (Reflex Boost, Technician) is used

    • block anticounters are created by Reflex Boost that creates 1 weak-block counter or Smokescreen that creates 1 temporary anti-block counter. Deflect anticounters are created by Technician that creates 1 weak-deflect counter or Malfunction that creates 1 anti-deflect counter. Anti-block and anti-deflect counters prevent the target from using 1 block or 1 deflect counter until the effects from Smokescreen or Malfunction end or until these anticounters are used to negate 1 normal counter. Weak-block and weak-deflect counters remain in play until the effects of Reflex Boost or Technician end or are used to block or deflect an attack... anticounters cancel out if EXAMPLE5


  • if an anti-block counter or an anti-deflect counter and the opposite normal counter are in play during an according attack, the anticounter negates the normal counter, then the anticounter is removed but the normal counter remains... anticounters may negate normal counters but do not destroy them EXAMPLE6

  • modified weapons (Celtic/Azrael/Delta), give 1 counter to the according battle perk (example... Azrael Bane gives 1 critical counter, Celtic Cleaver gives 1 anti-block counter, Delta Daggers give 1 critical counter, etc)

    EXAMPLE1:

    P1:

    STR = 50
    DEX = 40
    TEC = 50
    SUP = 60

    P2:

    STR = 25
    DEX = 50
    TEC = 25
    SUP = 100

    P3:

    STR = 20
    DEX = 100
    TEC = 30
    SUP = 50

    P4:

    STR = 70
    DEX = 20
    TEC = 20
    SUP = 90

    P1 & P2
    VS
    P3 & P4

    P1's TEC is compared with P3's TEC. P1's 50 TEC is 20 more than P3's 30 TEC (highest TEC on P3 and P4's team), therefore P1 and P2 receive 2 Deflect counters each. P2's SUP is compared with P4's SUP. P2's 100 SUP is 10 more than P4's 90 SUP, therefore P1 and P2 receive 1 Critical Strike counter and 1 Stun Counter each. P3's DEX is compared with P2's SUP. P3's 100 DEX is 50 more than P2's 50 DEX, therefore P3 and P4 receive 3 Block counters each.

    EXAMPLE2:

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 has 1 Block counter, 1 Deflect Counter, and 1 Critical Strike counter ready for use.
    P1 clicks his/her Block, Deflect, and Critical Strike counter, and clicks Auxiliary.
    P1 does 40 critical damage (turn ends)

    EXAMPLE3:

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 has 1 Block counter ready for use.
    P1 clicks his/her Block counter, and clicks Sidearm.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Sidearm.

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 clicks Strike.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Auxiliary.

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 clicks Field Medic.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Robot Strike, and is blocked.
    P1's Block counter is removed.

    EXAMPLE4:

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 has 2 Deflect counters ready for use.
    P1 clicks his/her Deflect counter, and clicks Sidearm.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Strike.

    It is P1's turn...
    Deflect counter (1) is in cooldown (3 turns)
    P1 clicks Strike.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Strike

    It is P1's turn...
    Deflect counter (1) is in cooldown (2 turns)
    P1 clicks Strike.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Strike.

    It is P1's turn...
    Deflect counter (1) is in cooldown (1 turn)
    P1 clicks Sidearm.

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Strike.

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 has 1 Deflect counter ready for use.
    P1 clicks his/her Deflect counter, and clicks Strike.
    (P1 has 2 Deflect counters in use)

    It is P2's turn...
    P2 clicks Sidearm, and is deflected.

    It is P1's turn...
    (P1 has 1 Deflect counter in use)

    EXAMPLE5 and EXAMPLE6:

    It is P1's turn...
    P1 clicks Malfunction on P4.

    It is P3's turn...
    P3 clicks Smokescreen on P2.

    It is P2's turn...
    (P2 has 1 anti-block in use)
    P2 clicks his/her block counter, and clicks Technician on P1.

    It is P4's turn...
    (P4 has 1 anti-deflect block in use)
    P4 clicks Strike on P2.
    (P2's anti-block counter is removed, P2's block counter still in play)

    3 turns pass...

    It is P4's turn...
    (Malfunction has ended and P4's anti-deflect counter is removed)
    P4 clicks Strike on P1.

    < Message edited by Depressed Void -- 8/31/2012 20:21:01 >
  • AQ Epic  Post #: 724
    9/1/2012 5:34:27   
    kingpowerlord
    Member

    Counters?
    So like... There would be little circles that would be counters? And we clicked on them.



    I think the idea might make the game a bit boring...
    But it would make everything a lot more balanced

    Edit:
    How would this work if you use a block counter and the other person does an ultimate attack such as supercharge or massacre?

    < Message edited by kingpowerlord -- 9/1/2012 5:38:01 >
    AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 725
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