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RE: Univision: The Paxia Project (Still working on the name) Clan Vs. Clan

 
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10/21/2007 15:20:27   
KB
Member

Lol, I'd have something to say to that but it could get me banned. :P

And how bout just plain old Clanovision. Sure its tacky but what couldn't be better than Univision. (No offense to the person who made it up).

EDIT...again. No way, 25 posts to next page. It's official I'm a nube again.

< Message edited by keyblade_bearer -- 10/21/2007 15:24:35 >


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AQ MQ  Post #: 26
10/21/2007 16:53:32   
Metallix6
Banned


How about an event where one clan attempts to conqur all of paxia?
AQ DF  Post #: 27
10/21/2007 17:23:16   
Sir Gnome
Member

That's not really the point of Univision Metallix... We're looking for an event that both the Unity and Disgruntle groups can enjoy, and ideally can be run again and again. While clans could take turns in attempting to take over Paxia, it would be slightly unbalancing if one acutally suceeded.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 28
10/21/2007 17:31:26   
Metallix6
Banned


But that is what revolutions are for and it is much more fun sounding than the previous suggestions cause than a clan would have the chance to be evil when it is there turn to try and takeover.
AQ DF  Post #: 29
10/21/2007 17:38:57   
Sir Gnome
Member

Again, the whole point of this project is that its a compromise between the Unity and Division folks - clearly a evil clan revolution would not be agreeable to the Unity side.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 30
10/21/2007 17:41:30   
Metallix6
Banned


Yes it would because the unity side would have a chance to defeat the evil clan of course they would have to have all wins divided by a factor of eight to be fair.
AQ DF  Post #: 31
10/21/2007 20:39:01   
Inozumo
Member

As a unity person, I would enjoy a rebellion. It would give me time to squash all of the people I disagree with in a grand melee.
AQ  Post #: 32
10/22/2007 3:22:44   
Sir Gnome
Member

Hmm... Though you would object, I suspect, if it was your own clan rebelling? And we'd have objections from someone in any clan chosed to rebel.


On a lighter note, I have updated the front post with Shodu's voting system/expansion tables. Please do look at this!
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 33
10/22/2007 5:55:01   
Crimson Raven
Member

On the opposing view Metallix, why not have an event where Untiy tried to Unite all the clans as one?
Of course you would not like that :/
Neither would I.
But thats the point fo this thread, to compamise between both sides of the coin.
While you say they would have the opertunity to defend against this takeover, what would Unity supporters gain from it?
Not much.
AQ  Post #: 34
10/22/2007 14:49:59   
Sir Gnome
Member

Here is my proposal, set out like Pie's. If anyone wants any part of it clarifying, feel free to ask


a) The Overview
This model is designed so that clans can form alliances, declare wars, and so forth. This would mean that players could influence their clan directly, by either Aiding or Attacking another clan, and so changing the relationship between the two. Under this system, smaller clans could band together to defeat the bigger ones, and forum alliances would become meaningful.

b) Setup
Very simple. All clans are set to be ‘Neutral’ with every other clan, and clan health is set to an appropriate number. An alternative here is that all clans’ healths are set to the same, and there’s a week of non-conflict, where all the clans build up their health. The repair mini-game could give boosted rewards in this time.

c) The Options
At (very nearly) any point, you can either ‘Attack’ or ‘Aid’ another clan. Attacking a clan will lower the Relation between the clans, and Aiding a clan will raise the Relation. A more detailed explanation can be found below. You can always Aid any (non-‘defeated’) clan, but if you are ‘At War!’ with two or more clans, then you cannot Attack any different ones.
At the point at which a clan is defeated (lowered to a predetermined clan health, or Surrendering) then three quarters of the clans Z-Tokens are distributed among all the clans that the defeated clan was ‘At War!’ with. The defeated clan will then be classed as ‘Defeated’ for either a set time, or until they repair back to a certain health.
When a clan’s health is low, then a ‘Surrender’ button will become available to all clan members at the clan base. 80% of the members of the clan who had been active since the clan became ‘At War!’ must click this button before the clan Surrenders (and is classed ‘Defeated’). The purpose of surrendering is to avoid losing as much Base Health as would be lost if the War was carried on to its end. Of course, War can also be ended by the Relation being raised above 200,000.

d) The Rewards


1) A clan who defeats another clan wins access to an item, either through their clan shop, for a permenant one, or through a temporary item chest that would appear in the clan's headquarters. While these rewards were available, Negatus would not be (Thanks CR, Ephermerality)
2) The clan equipment is boosted, either on a long/short term. Defeated clans could also find their equipment nerfed (though not surrendering ones)
3)The main reward is that when a clan is ‘Defeated’, all the clans that were ‘At War!’ with it receive an equal portion of three quarters of the defeated clan’s Z-Tokens.
As for player rewards, perhaps when a clan reaches a set number of Z-Tokens, the clan could trade them in for the right to sell a new powerful item in their Clan shop. The specifics of these rewards can be discussed later (my idea, very controvertial though)


e) Time Table
This event would be permenantly running in Paxia, unless a) A main storyline had to take over there b) The Wars become overly repetitive/one sided, and things need resetting

f) Main Information


All clans start 'Neutral' with all other clans. At this point, you can do two things to either clan - Attack, or Aid. Attack means you fight two enemies from the other Clan, and this drops your 'relation' by 5. Aid means you fight two monsters from your RA list (that aren't of the other clan's element) outside the other clan's base (supposedly defending their base). This raises the 'relation' by 5.

When the 'relation' becomes high, the clans become 'peaceful'. The effects of this are:
1) The 'Attack' option, when successful, reduces relations by 10, rather than by 5 (so that if clans want to be allied, they really need to work at it).
2) The 'Aid' option now means you play the base-repair mini-game, using the other clan's tokens to repair their base. This improves 'relation' by 5.

When the 'relation' becomes very high, the clans become 'allied'. This means that:
1) The 'Attack' option now only reduces relation by 3 - it’s difficult to become allied, but once there, it’s easy to keep.
2) The 'Aid' option now has two sub-options. The first is 'repair', and is the same as the 'Aid' when at peace. The other option is 'Mercenary' (best name I could come up with), where you fight at random any of the clans which the allied clan is at war with. The exception to this is that if they are at war with a different clan allied to yours, you will not be able to attack them. If allied clan is not at war with any other, then only 'repair' option is available.

When the 'relation' becomes low, the clans become 'uneasy'. The only effect this has is that the effect of 'Aid' now increases relation by 10. 'Attack' is the same as if the clan's were 'neutral' to each other (so that getting into a full-blown war is difficult).

When the 'relation' becomes very low, the clans become 'At War!'. This means:
1) When attacking the enemy clan, you do damage to their base health, as well as further reducing the 'relation' between you by 5.
2) The 'Aid' option now means you attack members of your own clan, as you defend the 'enemy' clan against people from your own clan who are attacking it. This improves relation by 3.
3) When a clan's health is reduced to a certain number (yet to be fixed), half of its Z-tokens are shared out between all the clans that it is 'At War' with, and the losing clan then becomes 'Neutral' with every clan, and cannot participate further in the event until its base health has been restored to a certain level. This means that it cannot 'Attack' or 'Aid' any other clan, nor can it be attacked nor aided.


Relation Scale:

0-200,000 = At War!
200,000 - 400,000 = Uneasy
400,000 - 600,000 = Neutral
600,000 - 800,000 = Peace
800,000 - 1,000,000 = Allied

All clans start at 500,000 relation points with every other clan.

< Message edited by Sir Gnome -- 11/12/2007 14:15:05 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 35
10/22/2007 17:17:14   
Metallix6
Banned


Intresting except for the rewards which are bad since it should be the winning clans get there armor and weapons stats increased and the losers get there's nerfed like what is supposed to happen.
AQ DF  Post #: 36
10/22/2007 17:22:03   
Sir Gnome
Member

I'd be careful with 'supposed to' phrases. As for the rewards, those are one of the less detailed parts of the above. We'll cover that when it comes to fine-tuning, one would assume.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 37
10/22/2007 17:29:48   
Metallix6
Banned


Why should I be careful that is what Capt Rubarb said was to supposed to occure when a clan won or lost a clanwar.
AQ DF  Post #: 38
10/23/2007 8:26:23   
SIGMUND
Member

Sir Gnome. I object very strongly to ANY Loss of Tokens from the Clan funds.
This will just stop people Donating Z Tokens to the Clans.

I understand that you want the Wars to have meaning, consequence and reward.
If you want Z Tokens then get the AE Staff to put 100000 new Z Tokens into a War Chest.
The winner or winners of the War can then share those Tokens. There will also be the usual War Rewards of Clan armour, Weapons, Pets or Misc Items.

If you want the Clan Z-Tokens to have meaning, then there are many other ways they could be used.
As I have suggested before. They could be used by Clan members, to purchase big items like Houses, like borrowing from a Bank. The Character then automatically paying back all the Z-tokens he earns until he pays off the borrowed sum +10%. The Maximum loan being the characters level x 100. To prevent fraud, IF the character leaves the Clan he has borrowed from, before paying back the Z-Tokens, then the item is automatically sold and the Tokens given back to the Clan. Similarly if the Character is inactive for a month or more the item is sold and the Tokens given back to the Clan.

To get back to the topic. Negative Effects are very unlikely to be encouraged by the AE Staff, since they generally upset people and make people stop playing. I think we want more players, don't you?

< Message edited by SIGMUND -- 10/23/2007 8:42:30 >
AQ  Post #: 39
10/23/2007 10:02:36   
Falerin
Loremaster/AQ Story Writer


Hmm interesting. One wonders what my current work will evoke.

< Message edited by Falerin -- 10/23/2007 10:03:00 >
Post #: 40
10/23/2007 10:59:47   
Sir Gnome
Member

SIGMUND - This is the kind of debate we need to be having. Me thoughts were that under such a system, there would inevitably be clans that were defeated, or losing in some way. The obvious measure of when a clan loses is Base Health, and so the only other thing apart from Z-Tokens that I can think of that could be used as a penalty for loss would be, as Metallix is fond of pointing out, reducing the power of the Clan Items. With the current clan equipment however, its not as if anyone acutally uses it, and so that wouldn't be much of a penalty either. If you could suggest a better thing to reduce, then please do suggest it.

As for players using the Clan Tokens, I personally would be in favor of that, although not in the sense of 'loaning' Z-Tokens (and I feel also the staff may not think too much of that one either, considering that Z-Tokens are a good source of their income). What I would suggest is that the clan as a whole can buy a reward (for a large amount of Z-Tokens), and such rewards could incude new things to sell at the clan shops, or a strengthening of the current clan equipment. If we don't want to give the 5 newer clans their own Clan Equipment at the start of the event, this is the sort of thing they could spend the Clan Tokens on.


Finally, I must disagree with you initial assumption:

quote:

Sir Gnome. I object very strongly to ANY Loss of Tokens from the Clan funds.
This will just stop people Donating Z Tokens to the Clans.


Seeing as the Z tokens are required for the clans to repair themselves, then once a clan is 'Defeated', it would make sense for Token donations to be INCREASED to that clan, so they could get up to strength again easily.

Also, when you say 'Wars'... The ideas i'm putting forward don't really fit in with conventional AQ Wars. Several Wars could be fought at once, and a clan being 'Defeated' under my current proposal wouldn't make any differences for any clans not at war with the defeated clan - my suggestion doesn't have any fixed end. Like I said above, it would only finish if events in the main storyline needed to take over, or the event stagnated.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 41
10/23/2007 12:22:37   
Metallix6
Banned


Well I suspect that the armors and weapons would have base stats to start with from those base stats the armor and weapons couldn't get any weeker only stronger so the only time a clan would notice that penality would be if they had won previous wars.
AQ DF  Post #: 42
10/23/2007 14:27:22   
SIGMUND
Member

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sir Gnome

SIGMUND - This is the kind of debate we need to be having. Me thoughts were that under such a system, there would inevitably be clans that were defeated, or losing in some way. The obvious measure of when a clan loses is Base Health, and so the only other thing apart from Z-Tokens that I can think of that could be used as a penalty for loss would be, as Metallix is fond of pointing out, reducing the power of the Clan Items. With the current clan equipment however, its not as if anyone acutally uses it, and so that wouldn't be much of a penalty either. If you could suggest a better thing to reduce, then please do suggest it.

SIGMUND replies: I would say that it is not so much that a Clan loses the contest, war, battle or whatever you wish to call it.
You should have a Clan or Clans Winning.
This avoids any problems of one Clan or several small Clans being "bullied", attacked all the time.


Imagine the situation: Your clan loses a contest. Players defect to the winning side. Your clan now is now weaker and has even less chance of winning the next contest. Another Clan spots your weakness and attacks you. Your Clan then fights again and loses. More people defect to the winning Clan. Your Clan is even weaker.
This process continues.....
Eventually you have one Super-Clan which always wins or two Super-Clans continually fighting each other.
Is that really what you want?


Finally, I must disagree with you initial assumption:

quote:

Sir Gnome. I object very strongly to ANY Loss of Tokens from the Clan funds.
This will just stop people Donating Z Tokens to the Clans.


Seeing as the Z tokens are required for the clans to repair themselves, then once a clan is 'Defeated', it would make sense for Token donations to be INCREASED to that clan, so they could get up to strength again easily.

SIGMUND replies: Again I point to the fact that almost nobody will Donate Tokens if they think they are just going to lose the Tokens in the next contest. Defection to the winning Clan will mean less people to Donate etc. etc.



< Message edited by SIGMUND -- 10/23/2007 14:54:29 >
AQ  Post #: 43
10/23/2007 15:46:53   
Sir Gnome
Member

Ok, so there may be some flaws with that idea - but before we chuck it out completely, we need a better alternative. Suggestions?
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 44
10/23/2007 16:09:53   
kandymine
Member

Sir Gnome you are aware that forum clan members are extremely loyal. Many non-forum members however often just want to be part of the winning team and would abandon their clan to join the winning clan, adding loss of donated tokens would just make it worse putting smaller clans at a huge disadvantage. While I agree there should be rewards for winning clans I don't think losing clans should be penalized in that way. The five newer clans don't have any armours or worthwhile weapons anyway (have you seen the Lucian weapons ) So perhaps improving the equipment of winning clans would be fairer. You are probably right about loyal clan members donating tokens to rebuild clan health but that will not last long if they keep losing which with fewer members would probably happen.
AQ  Post #: 45
10/24/2007 3:45:38   
Sir Gnome
Member

Would there not still be an issue of players leaving to join the winning clan to benefit from the more powerful equipment?

Of course, we could be slightly cheeky, and remove Negatus for the duration of the event...
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 46
10/24/2007 5:11:40   
doomdesire
Member

but what happens when the event is over? with Negatus restored non loyal clan members like kandymine said, may defect to opposing clans that won in order to reap the rewards smaller clans may lose alot of their members as everyone wants to join the winning clans..that would nt seem rather fair...

hw about making clan membership not defectable in other words removing Negatus completely? it would prevent ppl from changing clans as and when they please, bring the message to members that once chosen u must stay in that clan forever and also if such an event reali does happen widespread defection to opposing clans..

another suggestion is to limit the number of times u can change clans so that once u reach the limit u cant change ur clan anymore and u have to stay with that clan forever it aso would help prevent defection if more of such events occur...these are mi suggestions
AQ  Post #: 47
10/24/2007 13:01:28   
SIGMUND
Member

War Rewards ideas.
1/ Create a War Chest for each contest. 100000 Tokens and 1000000 Gold, to be shared among the winning Clan or Clans. These would be new Tokens and Gold from the AE stockpile.
2/ Allow winning Clan or Clans, to use the losing Clans equipment, without penalty.
3/ Boost the power of the Winning Clan or Clans equipment by 10%.
4/ Add new equipment to the Clan Shops.
5/ Add new pets to the Clan Shops.
6/ Boost the winning Clan members defences against the Element of the loosing Clan.



< Message edited by SIGMUND -- 10/24/2007 13:03:05 >
AQ  Post #: 48
10/25/2007 0:27:58   
doomdesire
Member

those are nice rewards
AQ  Post #: 49
10/25/2007 23:49:14   
Metallix6
Banned



quote:

ORIGINAL: doomdesire

but what happens when the event is over? with Negatus restored non loyal clan members like kandymine said, may defect to opposing clans that won in order to reap the rewards smaller clans may lose alot of their members as everyone wants to join the winning clans..that would nt seem rather fair...

hw about making clan membership not defectable in other words removing Negatus completely? it would prevent ppl from changing clans as and when they please, bring the message to members that once chosen u must stay in that clan forever and also if such an event reali does happen widespread defection to opposing clans..

another suggestion is to limit the number of times u can change clans so that once u reach the limit u cant change ur clan anymore and u have to stay with that clan forever it aso would help prevent defection if more of such events occur...these are mi suggestions



Or just make it so people are unable to join the previously clan that won for at least 2 wars after there win.
AQ DF  Post #: 50
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