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=CHAR= Good or Evil?

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2/14/2010 9:04:14   
  Zyrain
The Arcane


 What makes a better Story?
Where your main character is Good or Evil?

I personally find that having Good main characers is easier, but can sometimes get boring.
So having Evil main characters can sometimes make a change.

For which makes a better Story, it all depends on the Storyline...
But I am going to go with Good main characters. :)

~Zyrain

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
2/14/2010 11:23:15   
Reaper Sigma
Member

I prefer indifferent main characters. I'm writing a story with an indifferent main character.

He does nothing for the greater good, but does small, good things. It's harder to predict what an indifferent character does rather than a good or evil one.
Post #: 2
2/14/2010 13:21:26   
Sir Nicholas
Member

All of my main characters have been Good, but there's been several instances of "Heroic Evolution". That is to say, one goes through a journey that leads them from being an Anti-Hero, to evolving into a superhero. On the Kingdom Hearts site (Which I left) my character went through this very experience.

He starts out with no memories, then as time draws on grows to accept his destiny as a Guardian, a protector. However, he's conflicted in that to do his duty, he has to sacrifice his personal life: He has to distance himself from his friends and family else he lets them get in the way. Keeping him cold and distant was the biggest challenge for me, when at heart he really was 100% Good.

_____________________________

Jesse, Elda, Marcus, Jolana, Vegalok, Damien, Eliac - I remember you all. Wherever you are, I hope you are all safe.

And Falerin, I hope you have found peace.
AQ  Post #: 3
2/15/2010 10:23:37   
horusmaster9
Member

I like characters that develop (Good->Evil, Evil->Good) or the awesomesauce characters that die. :D

For the first one, it's mostly because it gets boring to have just one goody-two-shoes try to take out a stereotypically evil mastermind of doom. As he turns evil, perhaps his comrades will attempt to stop him, and, maybe, at the end, he'll regret his ways and die in peace. D:

As for the cool characters that die... Well, I think it's always a good thing to use, although readers may disagree. 7.7
Post #: 4
2/15/2010 23:08:14   
alexmacf
Member

In story 1 (the one I've been working on actively):
Nobody's either!
I've got two anti-heroes as my leads, one of which used to be that universe's equivalent of a Bolshevik, the other the former princess. The ex-Bolshevik is actually the most idealistic of the two, and has a Neutral Good alignment, whereas the former princess would be True Neutral if she weren't gifted with those pesky empathy powers that keep her from giving anyone serious harm.
The "bad guys," the police, are actually doing what they think is right - keeping the peace and enforcing laws they see as justified and necessary. They are devoted to their country, and not a one of them thinks about MyCountryRightOrWrong because to them, the country is right, period.

In story 2 (the one coming to me in dreams, which I then promptly write down, so far I've got very little but characterization and some major plot points and apparent ChekovsGuns, I'll have to keep dreaming for more):
There's a very fine but clear line between the two. The demons are bad, the witches and wizards mostly good. There's no real "neutral" unless you're a {{Muggle}} and staying that way.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 5
2/16/2010 0:18:55   
Ganden
Member

I find that I usually write good characters, but not the goody two-shoes ones... Following the good path is just about never the easy path, and I like to explore that. What makes a character good, and why do they do it?

I also believe there is no absolutely evil person. Everyone does what is good by them, and my writing reflects this. All of the antagonists have reasons for acting the way they do.

-Tolan

_____________________________

We have enough people who tell it like it is;
we need more people who tell it like it should be.
--My motto for life.
MQ  Post #: 6
2/16/2010 1:12:14   
Argeus the Paladin
Member

I say screw good and evil altogether. Put everyone and everything into the mosh pit of grey, because, hey, that's what reality is like.
DF  Post #: 7
2/16/2010 2:08:21   
  Verlyrus
DragonFable Boxcat


 The thing about grey though, is that there are many shades of grey. The good hero makes a mistake; the evil villain was once pure. That sort of thing. Just because everything is in a mosh pit of grey doesn't meant that that shade of grey is the same throughout.

When I write, I tend to write about the tragic hero. When one tries do the best they can for what they believe or want, there are no easy answers. Good and evil get mixed. Sometimes, the enemy becomes your friend. Stuff happens. Life and story changes.
AQ MQ  Post #: 8
2/17/2010 15:20:15   
Fleur Du Mal
Member

Since the definition of 'good' and 'evil' can be vague and all the characters a different shade of grey, as mentioned in the above comments, I'm trying to think in terms of antagonists and protagonists. However, what I often find ending up with is that whatever is the world-view and morals of the protagonist, usually that view tends to end up presenting the lighter side and the 'good' in the story.

I wouldn't personally say that having the protagonist represent good or evil would have too much hold on in determining whether the story will be interesting or not. I'd say that would arise from the ways the antagonist's and the protagonist's paths meet. On the plotline, in other words. Not to undermine the importance of building up a believable character. =P

I'd love to succeed in writing a story where there are two protagonists, one 'good' and the other 'evil' and an antagonist who'd be neither. Purrhaps the goal the protagonists are headed for wouldn't have to do with anything 'good' or 'evil'. =P

Edit:typos...

< Message edited by fabula -- 2/17/2010 15:33:45 >
DF  Post #: 9
2/17/2010 20:19:25   
alexmacf
Member

quote:

I say screw good and evil altogether. Put everyone and everything into the mosh pit of grey, because, hey, that's what reality is like.
The thing with grey is that there's shades of it. I might not be able to see them all, but it's there. And as far as I'm concerned, everyone is light grey in their own mind; that's what I'm trying to portray in my current pet, the one I'm doing active work on. So far as from my POV (which should be somewhat important, since I'm the author), the greys are like this:

The police: Vary, but the ones we meet are generally a medium-light. They truly believe what they're doing is right. Lawful Neutrals and Lawful Goods (so far as the Goods can go), the whole lot of them.
Jacen: The Atoner, he's a very light grey and a very dark grey at the same time. You see his past, when he was dark grey, and the present, where he's nearly WHITE (which doesn't really exist in my world). He gets a little darker grey as the story goes along, but not terribly much. The cause for this lightening over time is his incredibly strong magic, which works that effect on people in my world. Neutral Good, as far as that alignment can go in this world.
Thalia: Very dark-medium grey, a True Neutral. The only things keeping her from going Chaotic Neutral or Neutral Evil are her magic and Jacen (will be proved with several scenes later on).
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 10
2/17/2010 20:29:54   
Reaper Sigma
Member

quote:

I say screw good and evil altogether. Put everyone and everything into the mosh pit of grey, because, hey, that's what reality is like.


No one likes reality. That's why I read fantasy.

From my point of view, there is no "true" good or evil. They are different points of views from different sides. I'm currently working on a story where the protagonist varies from light grey to dark grey, and everything inbetween.
Post #: 11
2/17/2010 22:06:49   
Randomnity
Member

I agree with Argeus and alex, gray is a pretty good way to go. Separating characters into terms of good and evil would just seem kind of wooden, unless you were a really good writer. A good guy would always make what he saw as good, and sometimes that can make it pretty hard for your reviewers/audience to connect. Weirdly, I like to make clearly evil characters, mostly for the dark/quirky humor I can put into a situation involving them.
AQ  Post #: 12
2/17/2010 23:34:06   
Argeus the Paladin
Member

I have grown to believe that seeing things clearly in good or evil is the childish way out. Most of the time, people (and characters too) tend not to do what they know is morally wrong or "evil", unless (i) they know it serves a greater good, or at least believe so, and that makes them not evil by proxy, or (ii) they are clinically, unsalvagably insane.

And let's not get started on the role of point of view in scribing history. An argument can go on for days on whether the Roman Empire/Qin Shihuang/Richard the Lionheart/Oda Nobunaga is good or evil, and believe me, there shall be no definitive answer for there are different ways one could look at their actions and draw conclusion.

Heck, given the right POV, Mao Zedong makes the likes of Winston Churchill and Theodore Roosevelt look like power-hungry politicians (And this, mind you, is the POV I generally accept).
DF  Post #: 13
2/18/2010 0:42:16   
Eukara Vox
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Then call me childish, Argeus. But some of us do believe in good and evil, that characters can and will exhibit such traits as a majority of what governs their actions. I choose to have such characters. Many writers choose that.

It is extremely possible to have a morally good character do things that are wrong and know they did wrong. And what it does to them in the long run formulates some extremely good writing, intense characterization and realistic portrayal of humanity as a whole. Same as an "evil" character, who finds himself doing something good. It affects them, makes them who they are. It creates a ghost in their minds, something that haunts them. But, they can still be evil, as that one thing will not change them completely.

Opinions are opinions. It's why we all have brains, imaginations and the ability to speak about them.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
2/19/2010 1:37:06   
Argeus the Paladin
Member

Looks like I've worded my self confusingly, it seems. What I wanted to say is that realistically, there exists no such thing as an 'evil person'. I tend to believe that no one would, in their right mind, do something morally evil just because. And if there is a purpose behind a morally evil or ambiguous action it is entirely subjective to whether the action itself is good or evil.

That is why I like my world gray.

But yes, you're right. This is my way of viewing thing - in other words, an opinion.
DF  Post #: 15
3/17/2010 5:49:59   
MonsterMike9000
Member

Whether a character is good or evil is not a defining characteristic, but a sort of "ice breaker" in the story. Their are certain things we associate with a good or evil character and some people might have an easier time with either one because of those elements.

I personally tend to write my characters as morally blank or "black and white".
AQ  Post #: 16
3/17/2010 6:16:39   
BlueKatz
Member

I think it's really hard to make a Pure Evil character. I mean no one tried to make a Evil Overlord that have to think "how can I deal with those heroes "

To make story interesting, I make a chaotic character, mean he nearly does thing to survive, live in Evil way but the story is turning in to good ways. Classical. I'm trying to find better ways.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 17
3/17/2010 21:40:17   
alexmacf
Member

I like pairing morally darker and morally lighter (I don't really do "Good" and "Evil" much) characters together. It's fun.
However, when writing shorter stories, I'll usually use a main character that's a Lawful Good or Lawful Neutral. It's easier to write them, being aligned somewhat near them myself.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 18
3/17/2010 21:44:49   
Argeus the Paladin
Member

Neutral Good. That is where most people starts out if Russeau Was Right.
DF  Post #: 19
4/3/2010 14:10:39   
xehanort
Member

Well, while i absolutely suck at actually writing anything i can tell you about the story i do have in mind (Which i sadly can't write because i suck at it)
No matter what i come up with i can never convey it in a good way

The protagonists are basically a dark shade of grey, save the world at any cost, no matter how many innocents they have to burn in the process, if even a small portion of the world is still intact by the end of it then the good will ultimately have won.
Victory at any cost, because losing would mean total annihilation.
They simply cannot afford to be nice guys, it's either go all the way or die horribly.

The antagonist is just plain pitch black.
Bye-bye world.
Does a damn good job at forcing the protagonists to resort to morally questionable methods, because if they didn't they would have literally no chance at all.


So it comes down to a Very Dark Grey That Makes You Feel Sick At Calling Them The Good Guys VS Pitch Black Pure Evil With No Redeeming Qualities Whatsoever.
The protagonists still come across as total [Insert Bad Word Of Your Choice Here] despite the villain being a hundred times worse.
AQ DF  Post #: 20
6/12/2010 14:09:41   
Firefly
Lore-ian


 Heh, seems like I've stumbled into an old thread, but it's definitely worth discussing and is still on the first page so... why not?

I tend to prefer characters in different shades of grey. At my most cynical, I believe that there is no way humans can determine right or wrong. Thankfully, I'm not always at my most cynical, so I tend to think that though it's impossible to create an absolute morality metre, it /is/ possible to have a general idea of good and evil. Therefore, I tend to write in different shades of grey, with very little black or white. However, I will never have a story where everyone is the same shade of grey, because it would make all the characters too similar (and the audience will draw their own opinions on who is the darker grey regardless).

"Good" with a capital G is rarely ever present in my stories. The only truly pure characters are usually minor (if they manage to survive the first page or two), and even they can spend some time as antagonists due to circumstances or opposing worldviews. The major players in my stories are anti-heroes at best--which entails the anti-hero morality, not just a snarky attitude. Most of my main characters tend to start off innocent as children, then get broken by several traumatizing incidents. This causes them to become cynical, gradually changing them from someone who fights for justice to someone who reflects the monsters they fight. They slip from anti-hero to Byronic hero, and may even crash into villain protagonist territory for a period. If they're important enough--and if I'm feeling merciful--they'll have an epiphany and realize what they've done is wrong. Then they'll try to slowly claw their way back into hero territory. Whether they succeed or not is up to how idealistic or cynical their story is.

But note that I wouldn't label any of my main characters as "evil." They have reasons for what they do, and their goals are usually noble. I have written maybe one or two villain protagonists, but even they are anti-villains. Which leads me to my next point...

"Evil" with a capital E is also hard to come by. My main villains are often fallen heroes. They tend to come in two varieties. One is the "ends justify the means" person, who has seen too much of human nature's bad side to believe in goodness. Their goal is often to eliminate bad people, bring the world under their control, and ensure peace--at a very high cost, paid in blood. In many ways, they are what the heroes could become, given twenty more years of crappy life. The second type of villain is the one that has been abused, misused, betrayed, abandoned, and generally given the the worst treatment possible despite how they once served the world faithfully. They then snap--though rarely do they actually go insane--and decide that the world is no longer worth helping. Yes, they lash out in horrible ways, but there is definitely a reason why they do so.

(I have, in my countless stories, maybe four people who are what I'd label as "Complete Monsters." Almost all of them deconstruct the concept a bit, though. One has a death scene that can be interpreted as sympathetic, another has an excuse and may subconsciously repent, another is simply insane, and the last--who is possibly the worst--shows that he might've turned out differently if someone had shown him affection much sooner.)

For the most part, I'm not against people cheering on my villains. However, I do want people to recognize that my villains must be stopped, had they been real, even if they are somewhat sympathetic in fiction-land. I also do not gloss over my heroes' bad deeds--if it's wrong, it's wrong, even if they are the protagonist.
AQ  Post #: 21
6/14/2010 17:38:59   
Zeldix21
Member

hmm im not sure why most of the things are grey but o well
Post #: 22
6/14/2010 21:21:41   
alexmacf
Member

The reason authors here like grey vs gray morality is because clear-cut good and evil isn't a challenge, and is (let's all admit it here) a bit childish for an adult work. Real people have both good and bad qualities, a motley blend. Therefore, fictional people do to, especially if they're meant to be understood.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 23
6/14/2010 21:45:51   
Eternitys Fantasy
Member
 

 Lex seems to feel that the conciousness of a person is far too expansive and beautiful to be limited only to Black, White, and its inbetweens. Remember, greys and whites and blacks are generally seen as colorless things, so do we want to make our brain-children colorless?

Lex says Nay!

Remove the talk of White and Black, and add in some rainbows! Too insane for the natural comprehension of the mind? Allow me to say it normal'er!

White to Black is a single axis, which we have associated with Good and Evil respectively in this thread. But there is also sporatic and composed behavior, is there not? Perhaps Red and Blue respectively. Then, there's the "Grey" areas between them, and the other millions of personalities and architypes of social behavior we've come to know and love.

In the End; Good and Evil exist. To refute it is foolishness, because there are ways to clearly define "Good" and "Evil". However, the Definitions of Good and Evil are what become screwy. One man may see murder as an ok, even good thing, while another veiws it as unacceptable. According to history's rule of "Victory", the person who wins the war defines what's right.
--With that said, maybe this "evil overlord" wins the war, and subjugates the people of the land, and all that Good(Or evil...) stuff. However, if this becomes normal and natural, eventually, it becomes the "right" thing to do. Anyone opposing this traditional "Goodness"(Which is actually evil) becomes evil according to one man's view, and perhaps a nation's veiw, but they know (Or think they know) they're doing the right thing.

Ultimately, Colors are far too narrow to associate a person with, esspecially through the medium of "Black/White-Good/Evil". The facets of a person's mind are more expansive. If you want good, make the people around your character like them, for those people will think he/she is "Good". If you want "evil", make everyone hate them, becuse then he will be the "wrong one" to them. From there, the mind will be forced, twisted and bent into making the hardest and most contemplative decissions. At that point, it wont be us (The authors) trying to define them, but they will have to define themselves through their actions by jumping off the page and showing people who they really are.
DF  Post #: 24
6/14/2010 23:14:27   
alexmacf
Member

I am colour-blind. I can't see this "red" you speak of. XD Actually I can. I just see less of it and if it's light enough, it's sometimes not red at all.
But you really can't fault me for making Jacen colour blind. R/G colour-blindness can make not colour-blind people hard to write, as far as descriptions from the 1st person POV is concerned. Where I see blue, others see purple, for example.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 25
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