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RE: Is MQ Dying II+How Can We Improve It?

 
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12/1/2010 0:17:12   
stealthwings
Helpful


Go to necryptos and don't use a vhunter. That will force you to use complex strategy.

The only problem, is that most complex strategy requires ancient SC/NG Rares. Fear of power inflation is what causes problems. If the staff would just accept it was happening, and make everything on par with the best items, then there would not be a problem.
DF MQ  Post #: 701
12/1/2010 0:18:36   
zeke50100
Constructive


@trans205: Actually, I think he's referring to this:

quote:

ORIGINAL: trans205

Take it from someone who played AQ for four years and MQ since beta, and gained reasonable levels on both.


Your level in a game does not suddenly make your word more logical in every case, contrary to popular belief

The reason why I say MQ is more complex than AQ is because in AQ, each armor only has to be balanced with itself in mind. You cannot "mix" armors; you can't have both AuP and Reign on at the same time. Therefore, if the AuP is balanced, then it's ALWAYS balanced. In MQ, you cannot simply balance an individual thing and say it will always be balanced because a combination of otherwise perfectly balanced things can create something imbalanced, which you cannot fix simply by adjusting one of the items involved (unless you want to make that item forever under/over the standard).

DF is, in my opinion, the "easiest" of the three games to balance, since you only have to worry about the actual class itself (provided that you don't create some belt that gives +75 dodge or something of the like).

~Zeke~


< Message edited by zeke50100 -- 12/1/2010 0:20:37 >
MQ  Post #: 702
12/1/2010 0:20:32   
trans205
Member

@above: I never emphasized on it. I just want to tell you that I'm active enough to know what's going on between the two games.

@Zamuel : Ah, fair enough. I dislike comparing rares and MQ balance too. However, the staff adjust the power of enemies based on the power of rares, so owners of non-rare items don't really stand a chance.

This is why you see before that there's threads like "New mech underpowered, because the mech from last April fools blow it out of the water." The staff listen to it and goes "Hey! New holiday mech, with never before seen power. Available only for short time. Get yours now, or you'll miss the power forever." So the players get it. Enemies are buffed. Newcomers are screwed.

EDIT: Funny, I mention my levels, and you all pounce on me.

< Message edited by trans205 -- 12/1/2010 14:12:11 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 703
12/1/2010 0:22:40   
zeke50100
Constructive


The problem with that is enemies haven't actually been buffed across the board. Sure, Necryptos and Yokai are tougher, but Necryptos is meant to be played through by a V-Hunter (pretty much taking it out of the standard game), and Yokai is only a single area. Every single enemy needs to be revamped if we want to get out of this "click 5 buttons, WIN!" mind-set

~Zeke~
MQ  Post #: 704
12/1/2010 0:23:20   
stealthwings
Helpful


Only on necryptos other planets are balanced to nonrare standards, and rare-owners are bored.
DF MQ  Post #: 705
12/1/2010 0:40:43   
ZamuelNow
Constructive


Personally, I have an incredibly low opinion of the existence of rares because of the negative effect on the game. In most situations, MQ has favored supporting people at the cap which has a nasty effect on newcomers. The realization of this is why we had the original Tweak Week and price rebalancing. Little know fact is that my main is actually the second character on my account rather than the first. I originally got stuck when I started MQ and I'm pretty sure that a lot of new players have difficulties at the lower levels.

MQ has more rares than permanent equipment. That makes no sense. While I understand some of the reasons behind it, it shouldn't be supported.

quote:

If the staff would just accept it was happening, and make everything on par with the best items, then there would not be a problem.


While I agree that a lot of equipment is in need of a buff, I don't think they should be on par with the absolute best equipment. Some equipment probably does way too much on any one activation and have too short of cooldowns for everything it can do.
DF MQ  Post #: 706
12/1/2010 0:46:13   
stealthwings
Helpful


Maybe not the absolute best, but they shouldn't be like they are now, with some useless stuff, and some amazing stuff.
DF MQ  Post #: 707
12/1/2010 1:05:46   
EinhanderX01
Member

There are 3 base Balance Standards: Non-Rare, Rare, and SCMM (stated before by Warlic and blues, echoed again recently by Korin himself).

The issue is that a small portion of MQ's non-holiday/non-Rare-event enemies (most enemies post-Necryptos) seem fully based on the Rare Standard (and by extension, Non-Rare NG Standard), instead of fitting between the Rare and Non-Rare Standards like the Pirates and Arthurian mechs (ranging from Easy to Hard depending on the machines; 2 of which were Rare, the rest all purchasable for either Credits or NGs).

I'll use Yokai since it is a pretty popular excuse. The enemies all featured pretty strong Nerfs that weren't seen in Non-Rare enemies and equipment until recently, and it isn't until you master the basic training on-site that those weapons are made available for the general populace. Of course, most everyone was here for the GBI threads crying for Mass-Nerfing, just because it was "an impossible" challenge that they didn't want to work to overcome. But for those who steeled themselves and completed the Training, they soon found weaponry that not only rivaled Rare equipment, but was worth the work to obtain, and weren't Rares.

Granted, this form of Shock Therapy may serve to help close the already minimal issue of power inflation, by releasing some rather strong weaponry to those who are willing to work for them. While it also proves harder to obtain than Holiday Rares, at least the content within is Non-Rare, powerful enough to take the place of some Rares, and not easily obtainable to start a new series of complaints basically stating "WAAAHHH!!! IT'S NOT FAIR THAT THOSE WEAPONS ARE POWERFUL BUT NON-RARE AND EASILY OBTAINABLE!!! NERF THEM NAO OR MAKE THE NEXT RARES STRONGER!!!"

Back to the general base of the issue, more of the enemies and their equipment should fit between the Non-Rare and Rare Balance Standards, so that while Normal fights aren't too bad, they're also not as easy as many Non-Rare-using NSCs say they are. Basically, a blend of what was done right for Lagos; a few hard enemies (what the Sniper, A.Bull, and the Navigator were considered), a few easy enemies (what the Blademaster and A.Wolf were considered), and a fair mix of enemies with varying difficulties depending on their attack order (Anchorman to Pirate Admiral to A.Ram).

As for Necryptos, while Necryptos requires a Vampire Hunter, it's not that different from the occasional mission line in DF or AQW where a specific Armor is required in order to accept/complete the mission set. The issue is that the Anti-Vampire weapons; defaults or not (except the BA of the Mogloween Editions) are still lackluster, echoing the failure of the Zargon BAM weaponry. After all, unlike the rest of AE's games, you can't equip/unequip weapons at whim during battle. The weapons themselves in MQ have to be flexible enough to warrant purchase and use for the duration of any particular mission set. If the Staff really want to encourage (make) players use V-Hunters, not only will the Non-Vampire weapons overall need varying levels of Buffing, but incentives to using them over waiting to hoard Rares. Let the base special and DPT be tempting enough to work with (somewhere between Yokai-level Non-Rare strength and Gark/Lagos Non-Rare strength), but add a bonus special that's only activated if the weapon is equipped on a V-Hunter (and whoever thought it was a great idea to make a V-Hunter themed weapon have an extra special when NOT on a V-Hunter needs a reality check).

Miracyrina could be considered a V-Hunter Challenge, if choosing to view it that way instead of as the only Boss standing in the way of completing Necryptos. See how well you do against her using only a V-Hunter and V-Hunter equipment. In fact, all of Necryptos could be considered a small Challenge, relying only on a V-Hunter and the current average to below-average V-Hunter weaponry and personal strategy to master the Planet. Rares just makes things easy, as do better off-planet weaponry. At least you're not getting penalized for equipping non-Vampire Hunter equipment on your V-Hunter.
Post #: 708
12/1/2010 1:06:14   
trans205
Member

quote:

The reason why I say MQ is more complex than AQ is because in AQ, each armor only has to be balanced with itself in mind. You cannot "mix" armors; you can't have both AuP and Reign on at the same time. Therefore, if the AuP is balanced, then it's ALWAYS balanced. In MQ, you cannot simply balance an individual thing and say it will always be balanced because a combination of otherwise perfectly balanced things can create something imbalanced, which you cannot fix simply by adjusting one of the items involved (unless you want to make that item forever under/over the standard).


Sorry for late reply. This is exactly why MQ is, say, easier. The defaults on a mech these days perform together like clockwork; so you could use what ever combination it was intended for to basically own enemies. In AQ, each individual item has its strengths and weaknesses, so you have to fill those weaknesses with strengths of other items.

quote:

DF is, in my opinion, the "easiest" of the three games to balance, since you only have to worry about the actual class itself (provided that you don't create some belt that gives +75 dodge or something of the like).


Agreed.

So we all pretty much hate that the rares are miles above non rares, and the fact that rares to non rares is like the population of California to Wyoming.

< Message edited by trans205 -- 12/1/2010 1:08:14 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 709
12/1/2010 1:21:35   
EinhanderX01
Member

I'm not agreeing with the statement that others "hate rares" for being "miles above non rares". In fact, I support the disparity, as it's the only reward for players who are willing to take time away from more important scenarios during a holiday. No one is making you play during the holidays, but for those that do, they get the reward of stronger-than-normal equipment.

HOWEVER, that is not to say that I don't support some strong Non-Rare equipment being released now and then. Yokai and, for awhile, the Pirate/Arthurian equipment, contained a few powerful gems of their own, which rival some Rares. The Pirate Sniper arms were the Non-Rare answer to the Ft13th Chainsaws (balanced by longer CD and lower activation rate). The Pirate Sniper Chassis gave SCs access to a Base that, when customized right, could rival that of the AMR under an SC's control. The "Nerf Stick" of Yokai was a decent Non-Rare substitute for the Nerf-heavy weaponry of New Years. In fact, the specials of the old NYHeads could be found in the "Nerf Stick" and the Tengu Wing, among other Yokai equipment. While strong, they are still relatively weaker due to the need to use them more often or give them time for the specials to take hold, but that's called "balance".
Post #: 710
12/1/2010 1:51:02   
ZamuelNow
Constructive


quote:

So we all pretty much hate that the rares are miles above non rares, and the fact that rares to non rares is like the population of California to Wyoming.


I think the latter is what makes the former a problem. A few strong pieces of equipment that aren't available anymore wouldn't be that big of a deal. The problem is that regardless of strength, so much isn't available.

@Einhander: Perhaps my thought process is a little different. In my eyes, holidays are the very time you do play more videogames since you don't have to worry about work or school. It's a nice holiday gift for the player but I don't see it as anything outside of what they would be doing anyways.
DF MQ  Post #: 711
12/1/2010 15:24:13   
stealthwings
Helpful


quote:

Sorry for late reply. This is exactly why MQ is, say, easier. The defaults on a mech these days perform together like clockwork; so you could use what ever combination it was intended for to basically own enemies. In AQ, each individual item has its strengths and weaknesses, so you have to fill those weaknesses with strengths of other items.

The reason MQ is easier, is because of the enemies. Good non-default builds are much more powerful than all defaults. The problem, is that MQ does not force you to use them. All enemies are beatable by all-default builds. If more nonrare weapons were made which rivaled rares, and harder enemies were made, then there would be no problem. (If more nonrares which rival rares are made, but no hard enemies, the game just becomes really easy. If more hard enemies are made, but no good nonrares, people without nonrares have an extremely hard time)
DF MQ  Post #: 712
12/1/2010 21:19:20   
ZamuelNow
Constructive


I'm going to touch on something else with the storyline. Full on cutscenes with animation are nice but not always needed. Sometimes the simplest things add personality to a character or situation.

Over in DF their having the Welcomesgiving War. While there's obviously the war itself, it has a intro cutscene. One thing that caught my attention was Oishii. Within the course of the scene there's the side facing poses like when you're doing walkaround and direct portraits. With the portraits, Oishii changes facial expressions a few times. What interesting is that the changes are rather small but rather distinct. With nearly all of MQ's conversation being done with portraits, changes to expression could do a lot to add NPC personality.
DF MQ  Post #: 713
12/1/2010 21:26:23   
stealthwings
Helpful


I haven't really noticed it up till you said it, but you are right.

Another example, encounters with korin are always interesting. Not only because of it, but he does have a lot of noticeably different expressions.
DF MQ  Post #: 714
12/2/2010 8:03:37   
Omega Maximum
Member

I think there's a lot that can be done in MQ to bring it up to par with some of the other AE games. But most importantly I think MQ just needs to have more story to it. I hadn't played MQ in over 6 months, until the Thanksgiving break, and when I did play it again, unfortunately not a whole ton had been added. MQ has some great potential, but it needs more focus on just getting out more of the story. Also, some variety in how each individual planet presents its story would be a good addition. In most cases each planet consists of doing several jobs several times to gain levels or reputation, and then waves of enemies leading to a boss fight, while this definitely does work, its not very exciting and repeated over and over again makes it rather boring.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 715
12/2/2010 13:04:25   
ZamuelNow
Constructive


I have to wonder if it's a side effect of the first person style of doing things. MQ probably needs far more walkaround quests like were on planet Zargon. It makes things feel larger and more expansive.
DF MQ  Post #: 716
12/3/2010 21:49:03   
TW25
Member

On the note of the an expansive world, my favorite scenes in-game have always been the space ones. The Crystal Asteroid cutscene really puts the 'world' in perspective. You can see other planets and their arrangement in the in-game universe. We see the perspective form the surface for the majority of the game so seeing a cutscene like that offers a completely new view.

Currently when going from planet to planet, they all feel like Loreon. Desert? That's something I'd expect on an Earth-like planet. Cities? Yeah I would expect that too. Water? Yup. The majority of the time I don't feel like we are actually going anywhere truly unique. It's not necessarily a bad thing but I think at least something needs to be expanded to make the world feel more like a world. Whether it be cutscenes or more walk-around areas, or something else.
AQ AQW  Post #: 717
12/3/2010 23:14:49   
Caotica White
Member

Have you seen today's release? In it's entirety, it's merely a weapon update. Not only that, but the staff has chosen to bail on the SCMM for another month. I don't know about you guys, but if this is in preparation for the Frostvale release, we'd better see something pretty damn impressive. Otherwise, I'm going to bring the wrath of /b/ upon this forum.

I mean it.

_____________________________

DF MQ  Post #: 718
12/3/2010 23:30:46   
ZamuelNow
Constructive


quote:

Not only that, but the staff has chosen to bail on the SCMM for another month.


This means nothing to me since I don't think SCMM's are healthy for the game anyways. Though the release was a little...downheartening today.
DF MQ  Post #: 719
12/4/2010 1:03:44   
trans205
Member

^I know, right? I actually think that the staff are pressured by the demand of release of SCMM. I wouldn't care if the staff cut them out completely. What happened to the releases back in the old days, like Crystal Asteroid, Westion, and Lagos? Now, it takes them a whole month to release content enough for a week. (<---a bit exaggerated)

< Message edited by trans205 -- 12/4/2010 1:06:44 >
AQ DF AQW  Post #: 720
12/4/2010 1:10:14   
Glais
Member

quote:

I actually think that the staff are pressured by the demand of release of SCMM.

Same, that's why alot think they should go (officially) bi-monthly, or possibly even tri-monthly.
I myself think tri is a little long but once a month definitely seems to be draining them.

Crystal Asteroid and the like were incredible, I wouldn't mind seeing Lagos finished since I hated how it ended, Robina doesn't even direct you to the war.
DF MQ  Post #: 721
12/4/2010 1:14:17   
Master Merlin
Member

I'll be the first to ask an obvious question: What in the world is Warlic doing over there?! Bladehaven is all finished from what I can see, and he STILL isn't back. The overworked staff are trying desperately to get a decent release going out and he is dilly dallying around in mamby pamby land working on his pet projects saying "Oh, everythings fine. Korin and the rest can deal with it."

Hopefully he didn't get signed up for AQW like J6 did. How much more can they take from us?
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 722
12/4/2010 1:16:33   
Glais
Member

That's another thing that bugs me...why do the staff members keep getting taken away?
Especially from MQ which is the smallest game staffwise. AQW has more than enough artists there and as much as I'd love AQW's J6 saga to continue I'd much rather have him back at MQ.

Though I've heard Warlic does the music of all the games,
DF MQ  Post #: 723
12/4/2010 1:29:00   
Master Merlin
Member

I know right! MQ has suffered the most out of all three games, with their head leader and best artist (I mean come on, look at the stuff J6 designs for AQW. Can you not honestly say you don't want some of that back?) being taken away with absolutely no player consent. Even after Cysero was gone the DF team managed to bounce back and produce quality releases (in part because of their huge team) and meanwhile in MQ the developement team is failing miserably judging by the quality of this year compared to last and how we have not one but TWO Faqs about how MQ is dying. I mean Korin is a fantastic leader, but he simply is NOT PREPARED to run a game with such a small team no matter how much they work. Quality over quantity, but not when you are trying to take over Prague with a handful of villagers. That is the reality of the matter. Either get more staff and bring Warlic back or MQ WILL die, pure and simple.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 724
12/4/2010 1:53:20   
Schwarzbart
Member

How about making a sourounding Picture like the one for Blade Haven that shows in all AE Games and put the one from MQ up sometimes instead of the one from Blade Haven. THats a addviserment that only const once but may help geting new people to MQ.

< Message edited by Schwarzbart -- 12/4/2010 1:54:04 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 725
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