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Epicduel,free to play or pay to win?

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1/30/2011 6:57:04   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 I'll start off my thread with a little quote from nightwraith,please be informed that this thread is not to complain,but to address some obvious concerns.

Here it is:''We always walk a fine line between rewarding those who purchase Varium with cool features and powerful weapons and maintaining a fair play environment for those who do not.''

Now let's compare that statement of his with the current setting in epicduel.And before i go any further,let me just say that YES i am a free player and YES as soon as i have money for varium i'll buy me right away.

I'm not shy to admit that i live in a country where our currency is so weak compared to dollars,purchasing the 10k package isn't something everyone can do around these parts.So i should be able to buy me varium in a few weeks or less.I'll even provide a screenshot once i bought my items,just to prove that i'm not all talk and WILL pay.

So now i have that out of the way,let me show you just how untrue this statement from nightwraith is.Look at the recent weapons from charfade and while you're at that also take a look at the valentines rares.This is going to be an extremely long thread,so those with short attention span,leave please.

Let me just say that there were a few good opportunities for people to obtain good items,let me list a few free items that i think were very nice of the developers to release to non paying players.They can all be found in the epicduel wiki,most people know.But for those who don't,you just enter ''epicduel wiki'' in your search engine and hit enter,bam.You now have a complete list of ALL items in game,rares included.

1.Graphite gun
2.Soul harvester
3.Holiday cleaver
4.aquatic cleaver
5.Too big!
6.Backpack zooka
7.Carrier zooka
8.Dread cannon
9.Winter cleavers
10.Experiment 2B
11.Harvest cleaver
12.Independence cleaver
13.Maple cleaver
14.Frost scimitar
15.Ice crusher

These items are all nice,because they do good dmg and most importantly is the fact that they give good stats to boot.Now comes the funny/annoying/angering part.They're all rare and the in game items free players get compared to these are so crappy it's not even funny.These items and a select few other items give you the odd extra 2-8+ stats extra if you compare them to non rare items available to free players.

They make a world of difference to free players and help build more competitive builds.Some might argue that you get enough time to buy them,but then again,how many people are at their lvl range.

Personally i missed soul harvester and cleaver by 1 day,yeah you heard me 1 DAY!The next day my merc became lvl31 and i went to slayer and they were gone.

Personally i couldn't care less on how much they cost,even if items like these costs me 20k credits each i would farm for them and buy them.Now let's jump back to the recent valentines rares and charfade items,look at the stats they give you.That isn't my problem at all,since it goes with what nightwraith said.

But free players aren't getting any items to compete against varium players anymore,varium players just get stronger and stronger.Personally,nightwraith should scrape the free player system and make it so that only paying customers can play the game.I'm not being rude or sarcastic here,just HONEST.To my knowledge,the word honestly only has a single meaning.

If i can look at epicduel wiki and show you this,then so can other people and hey let's not forget,nightwraith.Are you telling me him and titan aren't aware of these?They coded them after all.They know full well what they're doing,which at the moment seems to be screwing over the non payers so they're forced to pay in order to have a reasonable chance in any match.

Over the last few days iv'e encountered several lvl32 varium players that allow me to win against them.I asked them,why are you letting
me win?They all answer along the same lines,about being bored of beating EVERY free player they come across so they throw a few matches.

That's the sad fact of epicduel atm and what makes it even more so is the fact that nightwraith and titan are going ahead at it full steam,they don't seem to have any plans to change they're schedule.Look at azrael bane,an extra 5% chance to crit now.Free players are just going down the toilet,they're being poked fun at by the developers.

I won't be surprised if there's a weapon released in the near future labeled ''f2p killer''.It enables it's wielder to take out 50% of the hp on any free player on your normal attack,that's it's ability.See what i mean,that's not even sarcasm if you look at the current trend.

You know what would have been nice,and yes please flame me if you don't look at the bigger picture,which most flamers don't do.Is if new aux's similar to cupid's but non varium were added.You know why?Because varium players have now received stuff that are more powerful and most of them don't use those at lvl32.But NICE seems to be something rarely seen in epicduel.

So in all honesty,in a perfect world i would still like epicduel nightwraith,and still pay for it as soon as i can.But i doubt that in a perfect world you would make anything for free like you claimed.This i base on your statement right at the start of my post,which is plenty of proof to support my claim.



< Message edited by Deadly PoisoN -- 1/30/2011 7:20:30 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 1
1/30/2011 7:03:15   
Nebula
Member

Making them non-varium? Okay, then I'd like a refund of 1950 varium, the ammount I spent of both of those weapons before that is even begun to happen. I don't know if you have noticed, but rare items are always more powerful than non-rares, even with varium weapons. The Cupid Aux's damage is less than the recent frost weapons, but they are still very good even at level 32.

I wouldn't mind the Cupid Aux's going non-varium, I just think I deserve a refund if they do. Although there's a very high chance they won't.
Post #: 2
1/30/2011 7:10:29   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 @Nebula,maybe i should have said that they could have added something similar to those,seeing as how varium players have now received stuff that are better.So what harm would there have been to toss in something that helps free players.

You know,i'm going to change that cupid aux part in my post,for the sake of people like yourself staying off my neck,despite the fact that i think you knew exactly what i was coming down to.And i don't know if you've noticed but my entire post centers around the fact that all rares are more powerful,someone seems to lack focus.
AQ Epic  Post #: 3
1/30/2011 7:17:35   
Nebula
Member

Well, if they were going to be changed from varium to non-varium and be available to everyone, I do deserve a refund on my varium.
The thing about rares being more powerful, there's usually releases with rare items not too far apart. I think that there should maybe be 1 or 2 of each type of weapon that are as powerful as rares but are permanent at each level, so that players won't be at a great disadvantage while waiting for rare items.

I wasn't saying anything wrong when wanting a refund. If you payed for something and someone comes along after me and gets it for nothing, would you not be annoyed? I think releasing non-varium Auxs similar to the Cupids would be a good idea. Also, to be honest, I think quite a few of the heartbreaker items could be changed to non-varium but the people who bought them would definitly need a refund. The claws, the Heartbreaker staff and the clubs are all in the same stat-count as non-varium level 32 weapons. Azrael, Azrael's Bane and the Cupids are all decent for players at the level cap.

Although, to be honest, I'm not sure many players bought the Heartbreaker weapons other than Cupids, Azrael and Azrael's Bane so I don't think anyone would be at much of a loss. That's just my opinion, though. =c

< Message edited by Nebula -- 1/30/2011 7:24:45 >
Post #: 4
1/30/2011 7:26:46   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 @Nebula,that's why i changed my thread on that part.It would be a ridiculous idea to change varium stuff to non varium,it would flood the forum with complaints,that was a mistake on my part and i now rectified it.

But you're 100% correct with the valentines items,i share your sentiments.I don't see why the whole frikken shop is varium and some crappy lvl26 pistol is non varium and some energy sword that admittedly could be useful to free players but it's nothing to write home about and will not shield us from the onslaught that the recent varium items brought upon us with their insane stats,varium players don't even need that.

But i guess free players have to accept that they'll always be made weaker.I still can't wrap my head around that statement nighwraith made,such a blatant lie from the lead developer,come on man.It's really not nice.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
1/30/2011 7:29:24   
nosey123
Friendly!


 25, and it cost 7k (which my merc doesn't have, gotta streamline the pricing system >.>)

Paying gives you a lot of advantage (ok, maybe it's a WIN button :p), but at least there are still some good credit items.
Too bad most of the good ones are rare. They need to make some that doesn't.

< Message edited by nosey123 -- 1/30/2011 7:33:05 >
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 6
1/30/2011 7:32:37   
Nebula
Member

Perhaps in a few weeks it would be a good idea to release a ton of new non-varium stuff since the ones there are useless. =/
In fact, the majority of the items are useless... to everyone. Well. except maybe level 30 varium players.

< Message edited by Nebula -- 1/30/2011 7:33:09 >
Post #: 7
1/30/2011 7:36:54   
moogleoftheages
Member

I agree with Nebula here. There is simply not enough non-varium items. I think the trouble I find with epicduel is that you have to buy more and more varium at prices you could buy membership for, for a couple of months in other games.

People who buy varium definately deserve what they get, however I'm thinking perhaps there needs to be a third currency that can be earned perhaps more cheaply, but also can be earned by non-varium buyers and buyers alike.

A Third Currency would account for non-varium buyers that want to progress that bit more in a game they support and love.
Post #: 8
1/30/2011 7:43:35   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 @moogleoftheages,you know what i like?The responses to this thread have been positive,because i think people can sense that i'm not attacking anyone,just not happy with the nice lie everyone was brought to believe and i'm exposing that.

In epicduel you basically have to GET LUCKY in order to be a good free player.In the sense that all stuff that can actually make us compete are rare.But varium players live in a constant stream of new items and get newer,bigger and more mad items every single week it seems like now.We are just like toys to varium players now.

I wonder if i took a screenshot of my character and the fully equipped varium mercs i have to face and showed it to nightwraith,the stats and items and compared it all.I wonder if he'd still make that statement at the top of my thread.
AQ Epic  Post #: 9
1/30/2011 8:07:35   
BlueKatz
Member

I do agree that non varium should have more items, everything is rare! (varium owners have this problem too you know)

They seriously make non rare set, rare set are as strong as, but cheaper, that would be fine
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/30/2011 8:50:31   
InTheSky
Member
 

 Well, we all know the game is pay to win. It's written in stone.

But, I do agree to the point where Non-Variums barely get any new "good non-varium" equipment.

Post #: 11
1/30/2011 10:40:00   
TurkishIncubus
Member

Its not Pay to win , With only 2500 varium you can make enhancement to Non varium weps and win 10-20k Varium ppl . STR Mercs doing it well

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 12
1/30/2011 11:11:52   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 @TurkishIncubus,are you joking or was that actually serious?If that was a joke,then it was a good one,but if it was serious,then i feel sorry for you.Your logic is way off.

Take a varium armor,weapon,sidearm,aux and compare that same combination with any non varium similar lvl.The point of this thread was to open peoples eyes as to what's going on,nightwraith said that varium players get a small edge,or something to that effect.Varium players literally have to sacrifice NOTHING and they gain power and defense.

Enhancements are another joke when it comes to free players,have you checked the pricing lately?This thread isn't against varium players,it's against the false message that varium is only slightly better than non varium.

Your theory on enhancing weapons is also false,how the hell does that boost your dex and defense.More power isn't the issue,TOO LITTLE STATS IS.This makes non variums a meal for varium players,enhancements don't have a rats to do with it.You're way off.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
1/30/2011 11:24:03   
Arcanis
Member

"F2P killer" was just hilarious.
Sadly,the way it's going now,also probably true.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/30/2011 12:19:27   
uria9
Member

first of all the game WILL die if theres no varium
second , even if you lose if you SURVIVE a long time against them that proves you're not bad
Post #: 15
1/30/2011 12:42:09   
Wandering Guardian
Member

I must admit that there is a lack of standard non varium weapons for high level players. Yes there are weapons, but not a lot of variety. It's not too bad for the varium players as NPC's like the Slayer and Titan/NW have non rare weps with decent stats (examples at Slayer; 2 Varium Maces, 2 Varium Sidearms, 2 Varium Staves, 2 Varium Claws and at least 2 Varium Swords). That's not even including the stuff overlord guard has to offer.
Actually the topic of the Overlord Guard is relevant. The Overlord Guard is a good item template for what other NPC's should consist of. If more NPC's had the same Varium to Non Varium ratio in terms of items sold, i think this would help move towards appeasing some of the free players.
However at the end of the day, if you ask me there will always be someone complaining about something to do with the gap. If you look at Adventure Quest Worlds, it happens there also. Just seems to be an incurable disease.

~WG

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
1/30/2011 12:50:12   
Deadly PoisoN
Banned!


 @Uria9,where in my block of text did i say varium should not exist,in fact i'm totally PRO varium and will buy some soon,when i can afford it.I know we have people of all ages posting here,but seriously.You know that thing that projects images and converts them into speech?It's called a brain,please think before you post.I'm saying this as nice as i can.
AQ Epic  Post #: 17
1/30/2011 14:07:19   
TurkishIncubus
Member

@Deadly PoisoN

First we cant compare a Non varium (who didnt get any varium) and a Varium Player , Of course Varium Player has to have a high advantage on Nonvarium ,this game stands with money , Variums should be strong they give money to the game , if Non varium and Varium weps and enhancements equal than nobody will get varium , If you can be strong like a varium player would you get Varium ?

But the thing I meaned in previous is , You dont need to buy 10k varium , you can win Variums with only getting 2500 for enhancements and a varium armor. If you dont buyed any varium and imagining that you will be same power with a Varium Player than your logic is way off
Epic  Post #: 18
1/30/2011 15:15:58   
Callisto
Member

I agree with Deadly Poison,I was non varium for a long time with best weapons in game for non variums(Liberty weapons).I could hardly get on leaderboard at that time with around 65-70%,I can only imagine how it is for non varium mages now...Difference is huge,but I guess that is the point of varium.Varium player will always beat non varium,otherwise nobody would waste real money on this.I know the point is to have slight advantage,not to own every non varium you come across but if it was any other way,varium players would never stop complaining.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
1/30/2011 15:24:09   
TurkishIncubus
Member

^ Non varium mages are uped , but non varium Mercs strong like a varium player sry but classes not equal , its the truth , If you are a non varium you should be a Merc to be succesfull
Epic  Post #: 20
1/30/2011 15:28:34   
Callisto
Member

^100% agreed
AQW Epic  Post #: 21
1/30/2011 16:39:23   
Giras Wolfe
Member

The problem with nonvariums isn't that they just have less stats its that they have a jaw-droppingly lower selection of weapons, especially class-specifics.

Mages get Caden's Wrath as the only good non rare, and it's level 27. Occasionally they get a rare energy staff.

Mercinarys have mjollnir as the only good non rare, and its level 23, but still arguably the most powerful nonvarium weapon in game. Occasionally they get rare clubs.

Bounty Hunters get....um...nothing. And occasional rare claws.

Nonvariums have to wait for rare, level-cap, usually sword weapons to be at all competent. Currently, there is not one level 32 nonvarium weapon available. Heck, there aren't any level 31 nonvarium weapons available, just a couple of sidearms and auxes. Wheres the logic in that? Not only do they do less stats, but nonvarium weapons only exist at lower levels? Think of a level 31 nonvarium bounty hunter, just reaching 32 after the level 32 christmas weapons went rare. He will have to use the ROYAL CLEAVERS until the devs decide to release more level cap rares. +8 stats and +30 damage, vs varium player primaries with +30-34 stats and +32 damage. That match would be simply a joke, not even factoring in the difference of sidearm and aux and armor. Basically, this game is unplayable for nonvariums without holiday rares, and barely playable with them. I'm levelling a nonvarium mage and merc right now, and the only one that has a future is the merc as a 2v2 supp abuser.

< Message edited by Giras Wolfe -- 1/30/2011 16:40:50 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
1/30/2011 18:30:35   
RandomForumer
Banned


 This doesnt matter to me at all because i have alot of money lol.
I do think that they should have at least 3-5 Nonvar weapons in every shop release. Thats alot in my opinion lol.
Post #: 23
1/30/2011 19:06:29   
Drianx
Member

I'm a varium noob and I agree with Deadly Poison. The game is evolving, but since developing and adding content takes alot of effort, this effort is mainly targeted towards varium buyers. I'm sure this will change in time, but this will be a long process and not an overnight event.
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
1/30/2011 20:05:57   
altimatum
Member
 

 I think if a lot of people agree, varium peeps could take a week or two waiting for f2ps to get stuff designed to nearly match them... that sounds ideal to me
Post #: 25
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