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3/3/2011 10:10:26   
Vick Vega
Member

I disagree and this is exactly the kind of wishy-washy blanket statements being used to justify this crap. Bruce Lee with Full leather armor and Ninja sword and a bazooka should not get beaten by Nepolean Dynamite in Moonboots EVER! The answer is that this should never happen! Ever! Let’s stop acting like this should be ok to have happening every few battles or so. It’s not. “Your still winning most of the time.” Is not a viable justification, period! A person with low dex versus a highly equipped much higher level player should not be blocking. It should be a 1 in a million, not a 2 in a battle every few battles occurrence. This goes for the rest of the stats as well.

< Message edited by AVA -- 3/6/2011 11:15:53 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 51
3/3/2011 10:23:40   
Larcell
Member

^

Bruce Lee would own by just using Jeet Kune Do.


OT: I agree Vega. I remember fighting a low-level with <25 support and they deflected my aux from the get-go.

< Message edited by Larcell -- 3/3/2011 10:24:12 >

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Epic  Post #: 52
3/3/2011 14:31:58   
PhoenixGladiator
Member

^ agreed.

And I don't like how a level 28 can put 10 points into Shadow Arts and beat a level 32.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
3/3/2011 17:31:39   
Nailboss
Member

I'm a uni student, Physics major. I understand statistics very well, which is part of the reason I love this game.

I have a 32 BH with founder armor and full frost weapon set.
I have a good stat balance.

I see nothing wrong with the RNG.

I have around 6500 wins and around 10,000 total battles fought.
I can say that statistically, the RNG and the stats are working fine.
I usually have a predicted 20-40% block rate most fights because I have a low-level smoke, fairly high dex and SA on top.
I do block around 1/4 of attacks.
I don't get blocked much, again because I have highish dex and I smoke.
My support is only 40 and I take a few crits but again, in line with what I'd expect, looking at the numbers.

For those who are whining: you are probably just not noticing the number of times you block or get blocked (same for crits) compared to stats.
Open up notepad in your computer and start writing down each time you block, get blocked, crit, get crit, deflect and get deflected, and how many times it doesn't happen, and what the opponent's stats were compared to yours.
Come back and whine again after 5000 fights if you still think the RNG is broken. You'll find it isn't.

< Message edited by Nailboss -- 3/3/2011 17:32:52 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 54
3/4/2011 0:40:27   
Shadronica
Member

^Nailboss have you ever stopped to wonder why you don't find anything wrong with the RNG? ... could it just be ... surely not because your a str BH with all the Frost gear and perhaps a level 7 smoke?

Funny enough someone else decided to check the RNG and reported it was fine and they were a strength BH with Frost gear too.

Well actually today we had a tournament with the videos to go on youtube. BarneyPwnsU is posting them.

Just look for my battles for today and you will see for yourself that RNG exists. That ... or ... there is a spiteful person hacking the admin. lol

My poor opponent did not even stand a chance with everything going against him. I did everything to him .. crit, blocked and deflected I am good but not THAT good (well maybe :P).

That first match against him was absolutely ridiculous you cannot tell me that everything is OK when it clearly robs someone of any hope at all even with the best of builds. Its demoralising when that happens like that. So unfair.

They really need to get that bug outta the battle engine because it is happening a lot lately.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 55
3/4/2011 0:47:51   
PD
Member
 

 Since this is about luck, I'm going to refresh everyone's minds on what the Luck Factor Formulas are: How things are Calculated

EDIT: Quotes removed as Wiki pages provides all information about luck factor formulas.


< Message edited by PD -- 3/4/2011 0:50:36 >
Post #: 56
3/4/2011 0:59:03   
BlueKatz
Member

the fight has 7 turns

7 turns block

ummm....sooooooooooo calculated!
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 57
3/4/2011 5:03:21   
Nailboss
Member

bluekatz: 7 blocks in a row at the 45% block rate cap is 0.37% chance of happening. This means it would happen around once every 3000 fights. So, it's not very unreasonable to have it happen at least once :) if you got 7 blocks in a row for 5 fights straight then something would be broken. But, that doesn't happen.

Shardonica: I don't have very high str, and I have only level 3 smoke (25 dex reduction). The point is, when I make a build, I sit down and work out all the stats in advance, including block chances etc. That's how I build my character. I'm currently working on making a non-varium mage (hardest class, right?) which is already at level 26 after 5 days. Will probably get that to 32 in a few weeks.

Yes, I have a better block rate than someone with free gear, I'm not denying that. What I'm saying is, the block rate my gear gives me, and the number of times I block, match up pretty well. Basically, the RNG is working as intended.

All I'm saying is, if you *don't* get blocked 7 times in a row, or you get blocked 1 time out of 7, you don't pay much attention to it. You only notice the one-in-a-thousand things because they're, well, noticable. That's how our brains work. If you actually watch the stats and record all the blocks to hits over thousands of fights you'll see that it falls exactly in line with probability.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 58
3/4/2011 5:10:00   
charwelly
Member

I for one don't thi nk there is any luck in this game wow you get blocked alot maybe because of there dex duh... and maybe they crit alot maybe because of there support duh...

_____________________________

Retired Again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
3/4/2011 10:00:25   
Vick Vega
Member

@ Nail Boss
Again, wishy washy blanket statement backed by some pampas expertise in statistics. I am not twelve, not unintelligent and not whining. You are implying that we should look at the big picture and ask ourselves do we feel like in the overall numbers were being blocked, critted, or deflected in unreasonable amounts. You also gave an example of your character being well rounded in stats and gear. What I am saying is that people with 28 -29 in these stats are accomplishing this regularly. I am talking multiple battles, multiple times in individual battles. If a person with 28 support can deflect against a person with 84+ that is a problem. Same example goes for the other stats. I don’t care if you want to scale the data out over seven years, it is happening and it is happening consistently. The devs have openly admitted to the adjustments to give “underdogs” meaning lower level characters with less stats a better advantage. I don’t see how you can deny that this is the case when they told us???????


< Message edited by Vick Vega -- 3/4/2011 10:01:14 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 60
3/4/2011 13:23:59   
Nailboss
Member

The only adjustment to "underdogs" was increasing their chance to go first. I see this most of the time, especially in 2v2, the lowest level player goes first a good 80% of the time. Other stats are calculated correctly as far as I can tell. I do have a lower-level nonvarium mage that I've been playing with over the last week and again I don't see any problems with proc rates there. It does *feel* like it happens more often because it's more devastating and memorable when it does but if you really pay attention you'll see that that's not the case.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 61
3/4/2011 14:14:48   
Cinderella
Always a Princess


 @ Vick Vega- your insult was so exquisite that I'm not even mad about the complaints about nonvariums occasionally winning.
Post #: 62
3/4/2011 14:25:40   
Nailboss
Member

quote:

@ Vick Vega- your insult was so exquisite that I'm not even mad about the complaints about nonvariums occasionally winning.
complimenting someone insulting another player, that's great behaviour coming from a forum mod, what next, encouraging people to break game rules too?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 63
3/4/2011 14:45:46   
Gabriel Dude
Member
 

 Lol then shadronica get kinda lucky constantly hahaha. You got basicly the same against me
Post #: 64
3/4/2011 14:50:05   
Cinderella
Always a Princess


 @Nailboss You misunderstand me- it was supposed to be along the lines of "You ate the whole wheel of cheese? I'm not even mad- I'm impressed!". Ah well, I suppose it takes only one person not understanding my humor to mean that the joke failed.

The fact is, there is an element of chance (I'm not a person who believes in luck, so I will say things like "luck doesn't exist") to provide some sort of chance for an underdog to pull it off. It's hard to maintain balance between players who believe that paying members should get no advantages, since we have a global fanbase and the USD is stronger than the currency in many countries (not all, before someone comes in with a commentary about the strength of the USD) and players who believe that since they paid $X.xx that they are entitled to more advantages. Both paying and non-paying members deserve to be able to have fun in the game. So, there's an element of chance- I'm sure we've all been saved by clutch blocks or crits, and we've all lost because our opponent got one. In the words of a great philosopher- Nobody in this world gets everything they want and that is beautiful. There's a point where we need compromise.
Post #: 65
3/4/2011 15:00:07   
Nailboss
Member

Cind: if that's how you meant it then I won't take offense.
I agree with you about the price of varium. That stuff really isn't cheap. To get enough varium for a full weapon set (primary, pistol, aux, robot, armor) costs around what most full-3D games do. With that in mind, varium gear giving a distinct advantage is perfectly reasonable, yes.
Having 2 characters, one with the best gear fully enhanced and all, and another with only-credits items (in what is arguably the hardest class to play, ie mage) does give me some good perspective on the gap between them - however I believe with good strategy you can still win out against a player with poorer strategy, even if they have 40 stat points on you. Just takes a bit more precision in crafting your build.

There are, however, a few unfair restrictions on nonvarium players, and availability of gear being one of them - see this thread for what I mean:
http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=18729560

< Message edited by Nailboss -- 3/4/2011 15:02:14 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 66
3/5/2011 23:24:07   
Gabriel Dude
Member
 

 Can someone tell me if they have something against me.... i just got critted 2 times blocked once and deflected once by the shadow creeper i think that was his name. he critted and deflected twice with 4 more support and blocked with 3 less this is just gettin out of place ok

< Message edited by AVA -- 3/6/2011 11:15:28 >
Post #: 67
3/6/2011 18:10:51   
Mr.Pablo Jr.
Member

@Gabz, Just because one battle didn't turn out the way you wanted it to doesn't mean it's bad luck. Like Cinderella said, there is no such thing as luck, the blocks and criticals happened because the system calculated that there was an X% of it happening and it just so happened to do it. Sometimes these things do happen and you can't always call it bad luck.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 68
3/6/2011 21:25:07   
Avast Volcano
Member

Bunker cits a lot--Has a 1/4 chance each time to inlict a cirtical, increased furthermore by things like Azrael Bane which gives you an additional 5% extra chance for a crit, is supposed to do a lot of rits compared to other skills. Crits are generally okay. I just don't understand how a guy with only 50 support gets crits easily on a 100 suport character. etc.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 69
3/6/2011 21:43:01   
BlackStar420
Member

To Reduce Lucks Annoyance: Make a penalty just liek with agility for high health. Only a more strict penalty in my opinion. Id say it should be a reduction in health, say 1 point of health for every 4 of support or 2 health for every 8 support.

I havnt played but here and there in the last few months... But Ive noticed that I only recognize 1/10 of the names from Beta days. And that the merc class has lost its luster to me. This is because it used to be the under dog in 1v1. Now its the old mage in terms of OP'ness and there sure isnt a shortage of players ready to capitalize on that. It makes me so sad :'( . Maybe this is all due to "luck" as it is or "support" as it is wrongly called, however you look at it I guess 0.o . As far as im concerned however I just call it a faill -.-, a huge fail... For one it makes custom stats useless because any build you use will fail compared to a high support build. Meaning there is really only one main build for every class and its a high support build. Theres what Epic Duel calls custom stats. Variations on a build based on one stat that is further based on luck alone... That isnt balance its chaos. Period.

@NailBoss: I get what your trying to say with your numbers. However I have experienced very different results. What I will say is I will believe it when i see it.

For example, I remember a certain player in WoW who to prove during vanilla era that rogue was "sooooo over powered it defines the term" that he made a whole series of vids called "World of RougeCraft" to prove it ( heres a taste, one of his funnier vids on balance. Think of "rock" as merc, "paper" as mage, and "scissors" as hunter). In those vids he recorded a number of class combination battles to prove with statistics that rogue was as OP as people thought.

Now what Im saying with this is its not what you know, its what you can prove. So prove it. ;) Till then in the words of the late great Mute I say "give 'em some cow-bell".

< Message edited by BlackStar420 -- 3/7/2011 13:01:04 >

_____________________________

Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken.
AQW Epic  Post #: 70
3/6/2011 21:53:59   
Wraith
Member
 

 There is a simple solution--make a new class, maybe TurkishIncubus's Delta Ranger? Or just Ranger? With a bow? It could be SUpport-Based! Support debuffs, support buffs, we need a support based class! To take away the OPed-ness of support! But they wouldn't be OPed, because they could be Striked.

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AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 71
3/6/2011 22:17:48   
voidance
Member

So your saying if we make a new class that takes weeks on time just to put together then another few months to make weapons for levels 1-32+ will solve something such as "luck"? Wouldnt it just be easier to think of something that dont involve so much time.
AQW Epic  Post #: 72
3/6/2011 22:42:44   
od
Member

I probably sound silly when I say this, but what is rng?is it random # generater

< Message edited by od -- 3/6/2011 22:43:29 >
Epic  Post #: 73
3/6/2011 22:58:41   
BlackStar420
Member

yesh. It ish. ;)

Edit:
quote:

Bruce Lee with Full leather armor and Ninja sword and a bazooka should not get beaten by Nepolean Dynamite in Moonboots EVER!


lololol, BlackStar lieks this very much. =D

< Message edited by BlackStar420 -- 3/7/2011 0:40:00 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 74
3/6/2011 23:30:40   
Goony
Constructive!


 For those arguing that there is no such thing as luck, could you please define what the random chances are then!

To me luck is: an unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another!

Saying that there is no such thing as luck in the game is wrong, sure the random factor chances are known and they are bound to happen to us all at some stage, but that does not remove the fact that when they do happen it is luck.

Good grief, there is no such thing as luck now. lmfao...

To me, the shadow art skill has created an imbalance to the energy draining skills that needs to be addressed, the EMP skill is unblockable while the other 2 classes both have energy draining skills that can be blocked. EMP is a very effective skill and now that the BH class has shadow arts, the other classes have less chance for their respective skills to work against a BH that has put skill points into shadow arts. I think that all the energy draining skills should be made blockable and that these skills should ignore the shadow art skill and any buff or debuff when it comes to chance to block!

In fact, just do away with all energy draining skills and give all classes some new skills as I feel this type of skill detract from the overall experience of playing the game!

< Message edited by Goony -- 3/7/2011 0:16:31 >
Epic  Post #: 75
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