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RE: The Ugly Truth

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10/13/2011 14:04:39   
frogbones
Banned


 As individual human beings created in the same fashion as one another, I am no better than you. This I happily admit. You are afforded every right that I am, and I don't deserve anything that you don't.

However, downplaying the role that experience plays in a debate is disingenuous.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 26
10/13/2011 14:09:08   
PD
Member
 

 ^^ In what context? Balance isn't solved through experiences. The numbers are what matter in balance.

Balance IS about the numbers after all...

Also, by your criteria of Elitism, I guess by THAT definition I must be the most elitist person on this forum. But eh... what can I do about it?

< Message edited by PD -- 10/13/2011 14:10:05 >
Post #: 27
10/13/2011 14:32:09   
Matgon
Member

The gap between varium and non-varium is abismal it wasn't always like this.... primary enhacements were fine but secondary, auxiliary and armor enhacements? That pushed it way too far.

DF AQW Epic  Post #: 28
10/13/2011 14:39:53   
frogbones
Banned


 HA! That's rich, PD, but I think you are misunderstanding me. Here, I'll use you as an example:

You are an ED numbers master. I am an ED numbers journeyman. You would be a better person to talk to for someone looking to get info about the stats, numbers, and balance of the game.

Does that make you better than me as a person? Absolutely not!

Does it make you a better person to talk to about formulae and stats in ED? Absolutely yes!

Clearer?
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 29
10/13/2011 17:21:07   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

ED isn't balanced. Chances are, your character may be one of those imbalances. When that happens you'll be getting a nerf and your "super" build will fall down to mortal power. It's always been that way. A build is overpowered and they nerf it. They still have a long way to go with balance so I suggest you quit whining and take it as it comes


ED will never have balance if the work of great minds gets to be seen and copied by those with inferior minds

just like heal loop was copied and spread all over ED, is what will happen with every other build that a brilliant player makes and uses it ingame.

until the options of seeing another player's build is removed
ED will never have balance.

and that is the ugly truth
nuff said
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
10/13/2011 17:48:47   
king Tiger
Member

It's all about the $$$$ , they really don't care about the players.
AQW Epic  Post #: 31
10/13/2011 19:44:12   
nico0las
Member

@king tiger Isn't that a bit harsh?
The team's job is to make money, yes. But they are making NO money by not caring. If they don't care, explain the amount of varium players. Explain the F2P players that have 40 000 1v1 wins, or 20 000 2v2s? Something keeps them coming back. They DO care. Their primary goal is to make money, but to simply say they ONLY want money is wrong.

It's about time someone posted something like this. I'm with you all the way here. You have my 100% support on the ENTIRE post.

quote:

If you haven't noticed, ED is often less buggy than the other games because Titan likes to take his time looking for bugs. He's not one to rush something for a due date unless it's absolutely necessary.

I did notice. That's one of the main reasons I switched to ED, from AQW. When it's released, regardless of how late, it WORKS.
Now, before someone decides to post "Oh, but look at balance! It didn't work!", or something of the sort, realize titan is a programmer. The team tells him what to put in, he makes it happen. We wouldn't be here without him. So, when it comes down to how laggy or buggy the game is, ask yourself if you could do it alone. Only then can you comment negatively on his work.
I'm probably going to get a load of ____ for posting that, but honestly, it's nice to get it off my chest. I find the ED community to be extremely whiny. Grow some backbone, and stop complaining. You're here for PvP. If you want releases, try AQW.

Finding perfect balance is essentially finding perfection. What's the catch? Perfection is unattainable. It's so close, we can see it, but so far it's just out of reach, and the further you go for it, the further it gets away, until you lose sight. Forcing in balance changes won't get us anywhere. More and more, "great minds" (as quoted by someone below) will create new builds, be deemed OP, and every player will grab it, hence producing a new problem.
The problem isn't the class, it's the builds, and unfortunately, you can't kill a build. I still see support Mages and Mercs. The nerf killed the majority, but some stay loyal.
Again, balance is unattainable. No matter how close we get, we can't achieve it. So deal with it.

< Message edited by nico0las -- 10/15/2011 11:43:35 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 32
10/13/2011 19:53:52   
rej
Member

Firstly, i would like to point out that a player who does little more than battle NPCs has absolutely no right to tell other players 'evolve or die' secondly, how exactly does supporting a corrupt system help us?

_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 33
10/13/2011 19:56:07   
ur going to fail
Member

If once a month ED gets in two updates releasing about 20 weapons, and one update on balance (then a extra week to slack) a month, then ED will be on a good road to making lots of profit and less work.
Epic  Post #: 34
10/13/2011 21:14:57   
Algorithm
Member

i rgr that the heal is to power.
Post #: 35
10/13/2011 21:23:42   
dont give up
Member

@tiger yeah bro thats harsh. and yes they care about the players and bam finally a awsome nerf that give every one a chance to fight. and i think this game is the best game more than the one you buy at store like for a game system ;) go EPIC DUEL !!!!!
Post #: 36
10/13/2011 21:26:36   
PivotalDisorder
Member

quote:

ED will never have balance if the work of great minds gets to be seen and copied by those with inferior minds
this absolutely killed me.

I doubt a single great mind has ever played ED.
Post #: 37
10/13/2011 22:42:36   
Jacksmart
Member

Im quite sure ND rarely NPC fights unless its for an achievement, or quest item. Actually Im not quite sure im POSITIVE.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 38
10/13/2011 22:58:57   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @goldslayer So what you're saying is that as long as someone copies builds there will be imbalance. What happens when the builds become balanced and someone copies that one? Does copying another's build make it more effective somehow?

@rej I doubt I even fought 120 fights against NPCs in this game. They either gave me a quest item or an achievement if I fought them. The only exceptions would be the newly released fightable ones and the Admin for leveling up when the cap is raised.

@king tiger They don't care? Why is it that they implement artwork from the players? How come they adjust skills and features when we speak out? Because they care about us obviously.

@JZ Providing proof is a must when it comes to balance. It's not that hard to take screenshots of your build, your opponents build and the skills being used that you feel make them OPd. I'd rather see someone post a screenshot of a TLM hitting 70 damage with Artillery rather than someone saying "OMGZ, TLM HITZ MEH 4 70 DAMAGE WIT ARTILLERY!" The latter only shows me that the person likes Caps Lock. The first option though will show me 2 builds and prove his story of being hit for 70. Pictures are harder to distort than a story is. Yes there is a line between constructive and just whining but it's not so thin as you make it out to be. Constructive posts will give the Admins and Balance team ideas on what to do to improve. Whining only teaches them they screwed something up. I don't have to respect them at all to tell them what to do right and what they did wrong. As long as I don't show the disrespect in my post I can disrepect as much as I want.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 39
10/14/2011 0:04:31   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 ND providing proof either by screen photos or honestly explaining the situation will work either way. We are not part of the official balance team, nor will most sit and make multiple screen photos of builds and the effects. I shall use myself as an example. Never have I taken a screen photo of a balance issue, but I have spoken my opinion about instances over a culmination of matches. I feel my thoughts are honest and I try to be fair when I do post. Should this be discounted, of course not. Expression is the key. How it is done is how it is received.

This is an emotional game, and when it comes to winning or loosing, that line can be crossed. And it has been. Every individual must take their own responsibility for their actions. Essentially your repeating all I mentioned and retyped it. :)

I don't understand your last two sentences. Whom are you speaking of when you use the term respect. I used it as a form expressing/writing about the matter and not devaluing anyone for the sense of self betterment.





AQW Epic  Post #: 40
10/14/2011 0:22:42   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @JZ Them was referring to both Staff and Balance team. Wiseman has also mentioned several times that providing proof of imbalance gets problems solved a lot faster then a story told by someone who may or may not be enraged at losing several battles in a row due to luck or a bad build.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 41
10/14/2011 1:59:02   
Drianx
Member

quote:

many people still class and name change as well. That makes a large amount of revenue for the game.

Yes but class change is heavily related to balance. When (if..) a proper balance will be achieved, class changes number will be greatly diminished. And, with the credit option, little varium will be spent on this.
quote:

And just because the weapons have standards don't mean they'll be clones of each other. One weapon may have 8 strength instead of 8 support or 1 extra damage for 4 less stats. It all really depends on how the stats and damage of the weapons appeal to the person behind the screen.

This may make a difference at low levels, but near cap level a couple of stat points or one point of damage do not matter at all. A minimal advantage is always nullified by a random block, crit or deflection.

Basically I think my question remains unanswered though: what can varium be spent on, apart from weapons and enhancements, that can make solid income and does not ruin the game? As long as weapons/armors are still the main source of income, all current game issues are here to stay.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 10/14/2011 2:00:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 42
10/14/2011 2:11:15   
Midnightsoul
Member

deleted, if u saw whats was here earlier, well, u can go spread the news.

< Message edited by bloodknight997 -- 10/14/2011 2:14:52 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 43
10/14/2011 2:32:57   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 ND, I agree, ideally if that situation played out every time, it would be much easier to figure out balance issues. It is also said the same when reoccurring themes that is commonly expressed. With both aspects, having balance and enjoyment of this game is a shared responsibility of both the player and game.

AQW Epic  Post #: 44
10/14/2011 6:03:26   
MirageD
Member

quote:



Wait, are you telling me that the rest of you have a strike button where my "WIN" button is? No wonder you all lose so much. That explains a lot, thanks ND for this very useful information.


Spart......i always love your posts ......just when my head was about to hit the keyboard.....i read this... and instead, lmao

< Message edited by MirageD -- 10/14/2011 6:21:43 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
10/14/2011 17:03:04   
Shadronica
Member

I love the word "Hypothesize".

Spart I used to have a win button but someone stole mine. Mind if I steal yours?

@Jzaanu. Go to the top of the class. I agree.

< Message edited by Shadronica -- 10/14/2011 17:07:14 >
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 46
10/14/2011 17:27:34   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

this absolutely killed me.

I doubt a single great mind has ever played ED.

are u trying to insult those that CAN make builds?


quote:

@goldslayer So what you're saying is that as long as someone copies builds there will be imbalance. What happens when the builds become balanced and someone copies that one? Does copying another's build make it more effective somehow?

no it doesn't make it more effective but lets say i made a powerful, and im able to beat alot of people with it with high %
now someone comes and copies it
and he's able to do the same
eventually it reaches the point where alot of people are using that same build, and those loosing to it will complain about it.
then ED staff will be pressured into nerfing that class/build
which is what happened to heal loop

because if the build was never copied, ED would see me as a good strategist on build making.
but if people copied it, others will assume im a build copy cat (which is what happens with str tac merc) or that i just like "abusing" the "OP" class/build

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 10/14/2011 17:30:24 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 47
10/14/2011 17:35:03   
MirageD
Member

ofgs......i have now lost my will to live.....lol
AQW Epic  Post #: 48
10/15/2011 0:47:02   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @gold You can not be OPd if you copy a balanced build. It's that simple. Even if everyone uses that balanced build the Staff won't nerf it if they find it balanced.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 49
10/15/2011 1:38:06   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

You can not be OPd if you copy a balanced build. It's that simple. Even if everyone uses that balanced build the Staff won't nerf it if they find it balanced.

if people cant see our builds, no build would be OP.
only the person behind it would be.
which is a big difference from calling a player OP, than calling a class OP.
AQW Epic  Post #: 50
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