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RE: What makes STR TLMs Oped.

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10/28/2011 8:19:22   
Calogero
Member

@ Turkish

Funny that you mention that...

I've noticed that 21 Sup STR Tacts Crit more, Have 1st strike more than builds with Normal Support ( between 50 - 75 sup )

Not to mention STR Vs Tank, STR still hits 30 - 40 damage and still Rages a lot faster than the tank

< Message edited by andy123 -- 10/28/2011 8:20:52 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
10/28/2011 8:24:56   
Remorse
Member

@Baron

You have to relise that STR TLMs maul more then once
lets say they only have lvl 1 maul, to not be stuned is a 78% chance (Without support infulence)
then a second time is .78 time .78 which is .59 or a 59% chance not to be stunned or in other words a 41% to stun.

This is only level 1 maul and only used twice!

With higher level it can easily become 50%

< Message edited by Remorse -- 10/28/2011 8:26:32 >
Epic  Post #: 52
10/28/2011 8:25:12   
Baron Dante
Member

So, you are saying that after I get those last few levels and stats, I suddenly start losing more against the same players?

And, as I've said, the only reason we have so much of that same build is simple: People know it works, and don't even actively try to create something new, possibly better. It works, no denying that. Doesn't mean it is the best. If it was, it would never lose matchups against a single build.

41%? I really don't see why cannot you just prepare in a way you can take a single stun.

I use stun on TM as well. It can and should make or break some games, but I'm not reliant on it.

< Message edited by Baron Dante -- 10/28/2011 8:28:12 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
10/28/2011 8:28:05   
Remorse
Member

^I honestly do try , Give us a shout if you ever make one , by one a mean a build which can take a STR TLM stun and still easily win.

Plus if you were reading I never said they were "the best" infact I quite clearly stated their arent in my opinion and that i do not disagree with you does it change the fact im anoyed by them NO!
And it doesnt change my opinion on luck.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 10/28/2011 8:32:40 >
Epic  Post #: 54
10/28/2011 8:30:03   
TurkishIncubus
Member

@andy123

quote:

I've noticed that 21 Sup STR Tacts Crit more, Have 1st strike more than builds with Normal Support ( between 50 - 75 sup )


that is not proof of str tlm oped , thats a proof of broken luck factor, i opened like 4-5 threads about it and all of them locked.

quote:

Not to mention STR Vs Tank, STR still hits 30 - 40 damage and still Rages a lot faster than the tank


Thats the way it should be , rage was invented against tank builds(thats the total purpose of the % ignore, to ignore their high def) , the real problem is tank builds rage after 1 turn the other builds.

also its imposible to hit a tank build 30-40 dmg without using skill if it gets 30-40 dmg than how can it be a tank???
Epic  Post #: 55
10/28/2011 8:36:01   
PivotalDisorder
Member

ok I have a solution that no tactical merc can possibly complain about.

remove Hybrid Armour from tactical mercs and give it to Tech mages, blood mages, cyber hunters and bounty hunters.
using the logic that tactical mercs usually do, that wouldn't be unfair, wouldn't make the other classes OP and if they complained about anything
we can just say "evolve or die" "if you can't beat them join them" and other such pleasantries. oh thats right, only they are allowed to be OP :)
Post #: 56
10/28/2011 8:44:33   
Calogero
Member

quote:

also its imposible to hit a tank build 30-40 dmg without using skill if it gets 30-40 dmg than how can it be a tank???


not every class can tank like tact merc....
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 57
10/28/2011 8:53:41   
.Nikzat.
Member

Smoke should have High Support req! (lvl7 needs about 38 supp) so i guess that will help alot :)
Epic  Post #: 58
10/28/2011 9:21:31   
Gepard Acht
Member

^there goes non-high lvl massacre build out of the window
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 59
10/28/2011 9:28:12   
dont give up
Member

well what make them op is frenzy take 10 energy at lvl 2 and take alot of hp thats op
Post #: 60
10/28/2011 10:15:01   
od
Member

Why not replace smokescreen with intimidate, killing 2 birds with 1 stone
Epic  Post #: 61
10/28/2011 10:39:15   
.Nikzat.
Member

Great idea
Supported :3
Epic  Post #: 62
10/28/2011 10:41:13   
D.v.D.
Member

^and give bm smoke?
AQ Epic  Post #: 63
10/28/2011 10:44:48   
Kozin
Member

Str Tlms are definitely difficult to beat and so are 5 focus tlms. Regardless taking away reroute would cripple the class. Also, the maul stun chance is quite retarded and I do believe that something should take its place. But seriously guys, if tank TLM's are so overpowered, why do I see the people with the highest win %'s as BOUNTY HUNTERS at 98+%??? By the way, taking away hybrid armor is removing the very first skill added to the mercenary class. I recall that Tactical Mercenary's are still in the mercenary family.

< Message edited by Kozin -- 10/28/2011 10:46:47 >
AQ  Post #: 64
10/28/2011 11:02:06   
PivotalDisorder
Member

the defence for Hybrid armour is mercs don't get a debuff, so either Smoke Screen or Hybrid armour has to go IMO.

personally I think any skill that almost directly gives free stat points from the very first turn is game breaking. I would remove Hybrid armour completely
and then review both mercs skill trees. regular Mercs would definitely need 2 new skills and Tacticals would need 1. I doubt the devs would admit Hybrid
armour was a mistake or at least consider removing it now that it is so clearly a major balance issue amongst the 6 classes.

< Message edited by psibertus -- 10/28/2011 11:03:05 >
Post #: 65
10/28/2011 11:02:59   
.Nikzat.
Member

i had 98% with bh and i did 300 wins ^^ (Im a str/dex BH) :)
Epic  Post #: 66
10/28/2011 12:57:46   
Rayman
Banned


 I agree is so anoyying they use the maul like 3-4 times in a battle and if u get stunned U r LOST.

and for now i got a Dex build Just to beat them. and it works vs others classes too.
AQW Epic  Post #: 67
10/28/2011 13:36:49   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Yeah Nikzat cause strength builds + blood lust are great, only reason Blood mages aren't dominating the same is because they have no debuff for def or res.
Post #: 68
10/28/2011 14:12:43   
I am Primal
Member
 

 remove route it won;t cripple the class. normal mercs use to be AMAZING you players are just GREEDY and want to be OP and get EASY wins.

reoute is the problem and i've said this from day 1.
Post #: 69
10/28/2011 14:17:56   
PivotalDisorder
Member

I think reroute is part of what makes the class FUN :) removing it would just be sad man. and that is coming from someone who hates the class.
Smoke Screen and/or Hybrid Armour need to go IMO
Post #: 70
10/28/2011 14:22:28   
frogbones
Banned


 Imo, taking smoke away wouldn't do much. 5 Focus builds would still be strong, as would str builds. They could always switch to an energy primary, anyway.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 71
10/28/2011 14:46:57   
Algorithm
Member

I really want to see reroute go poof on that class.
Too bad if it goes all the TlM's are gonna start you know what in the forums ;P.

Wait isn't that what most of the mages did when agility was added :O, so why not just remove reroute (And no that won't cripple the class, it'd just make it less "OP").

< Message edited by Algorithm -- 10/28/2011 14:55:35 >
Post #: 72
10/28/2011 15:01:58   
ultrafried
Member
 

 @Remorse
Your math is still wrong 78x78 is 6084 which when /100 is 60.84% or when rounded to the nearest % 61%. Without considering support(which is kinda silly imo since str tlm almost always lose stun chance due to their low support) a lvl 4 maul used twice has a 52.39% chance to stun at least once.

On Topic:
I think what makes maul OP isn't really the fact that it can stun it's the fact that it can stun and does amazing damage for very little energy. Every other stun skill basically requires 10 points before they do decent damage and costs 32 energy. A lvl 1 Maul costs 12 energy, only needs 1 skill point and has only a slightly lower chance to stun. Based on my testing a lvl 1 ds does 8 more damage and cost 15 energy (it seems % skills do their extra damage based on weapon damage so .23x33 is 7.59 or 8 extra damage when rounded up). A lvl 1 maul often does comparable damage (2 extra for every 10 def they have then rounded up so 31 defense would provide 7 extra damage) as well as having a decent chance to stun and a lower energy cost. In my opinion what needs to change is it's damage it should make you do something like 80% of weapon damage (so 6 less damage than a normal strike with a 33 damage weapon). that way people have less incentive to use it as a damage skill and more incentive to use it when they need a lucky stun.

Off Topic:
Before we complain about TLM we really should be trying to glue the shattered remains of merc back together they really need it. IMO merc is way more UP than than TLM is OP right now and many of the nerfs to tlm have hurt merc as well.

< Message edited by ultrafried -- 10/28/2011 15:10:44 >
DF  Post #: 73
10/28/2011 15:08:27   
Wraith
Member
 

 Changing Maul to Stun Grenade makes Tank OP...


Nice suggestions tho.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 74
10/28/2011 15:34:43   
PivotalDisorder
Member

quote:

In my opinion what needs to change is it's damage it should make you do something like 80% of weapon damage
I like this suggestion for maul a lot.
Post #: 75
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