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RE: Broken credit earning system

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11/6/2011 21:50:38   
altimatum
Member
 

 its easy for credits on low levels.... but once you reach early 20's i propose the credit reward gets raised
Post #: 51
11/6/2011 21:51:08   
Laces
Member

@BJ

Its not supposed to be ridiculously hard so the fact that a nonvarium 99% of the time will lose to a level 33 varium. You fail to realize that nonvariums are unable to compete whatsoever except for a select few since new ED players are under the age of 13. Variums pay for advantage, not a free win button. That price needs to be raised because if it takes 50k+ credits and an extra 12k credits for a weapon and enhancements at level 30-34 weapons, its basically impossible to get that.
AQW Epic  Post #: 52
11/6/2011 22:30:15   
PD
Member
 

 How hard it is supposed to be to farm depends on how much strength and faith you hold in money as well as Varium.
Post #: 53
11/6/2011 23:34:10   
Laces
Member

^And on how much time you have. Most people don't have time to get 30+ wins a day due to either lack of time, losing at almost every battle, or insufficient equipment due to low credits per battle and high prices.
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
11/6/2011 23:44:47   
PD
Member
 

 That depends whether people intended Epicduel to be a game that is competitive or casual.
Post #: 55
11/6/2011 23:52:03   
Bjswimmer
Member
 
quote:

You fail to realize that nonvariums are unable to compete whatsoever except for a select few since new ED players are under the age of 13. Variums pay for advantage, not a free win button. That price needs to be raised because if it takes 50k+ credits and an extra 12k credits for a weapon and enhancements at level 30-34 weapons, its basically impossible to get that.


I fail to realize? Laces I've been a non-varium player since beta, so you need to fight the real enemy which is the ED staff. Varium pays for advantage

against other varium users(or put the battle on even depending how smart the player is with their money), its free win button against those who

don't buy it. Do I agree that this is fair and just? Of course not. I can

except the truth and still like the game though, to some extent. Its impossible huh? Then buy Varium (you see my point?)


You seem to think, that I think, IT IS fair the way things are(which I don't), I'm just going to touch on 2 points

1) Would you rather it have that the enhancement slots could ONLY be bought with varium, and was not even possible to be bought with credits?

2) If the price on the enhancement slots were lowered and made it possible for those who really don't mind grinding for money, would that be fair for those who bought varium? I guess you could say its fair, if you want to spend varium to get the enhancement slots faster you can, its your money.

So you see, we are on the same team here man, lowering the price for the enhancement slots would make it more fair...but guess what? It would make ED lose money.

BAM there's your answer to the 2nd point

For my first point, obviously the answer is no, at least its possible to get enhancement slots with credits.

Edit from Cinderella: I realize you see me as "the enemy" but there's no need for the language, even self-censored.


< Message edited by Cinderella -- 11/7/2011 19:25:15 >
Post #: 56
11/7/2011 19:22:46   
Laces
Member

@BJ, I didn't think you thought things were fair as it is. I was correcting some part of your post. I'm a founder. Been playing a little before Beta. I've spent money on this game. I don't mind if credit prices are lowered. They did the same with Class Change. ED makes a lot more money but doesn't produce the same result. I believe thats the main problem with this game. I don't think people would mind if Credits per battle increased and varium prices were dropped (or more varium in each pack). But if you can't produce at the price your giving, you shouldn't be asking people to pay $50 for only 10k varium. I say double the varium in each pack. Only then will this game be worth it. Sadly Artix doesn't see it that way.
AQW Epic  Post #: 57
11/7/2011 20:12:17   
AQWPlayer
Member

^
Don't blame it on Artix -_-
I have complete faith in Artix, and I'd rather suspect that it's someone else that doesn't let the devs lower varium price...(could it be themselves?)
AQW  Post #: 58
11/7/2011 20:28:32   
Renzan
Member

Personally I think credit prices should be lower. 14,000 credits for 1 weapon?! That's at least 420 wins!
Epic  Post #: 59
11/7/2011 20:32:51   
DeathGuard
Member

@AQWPlayer: Devs have all the creativity with EpicDuel, but varium pricings are AE company's issue not Devs, I have faith that if pricing would be in Devs'hand, the varium in each package will be increased. Cinderella would be the first to suggest the idea if they get varium pricing on their property.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 60
11/7/2011 23:31:32   
Bjswimmer
Member
 
quote:

But if you can't produce at the price your giving, you shouldn't be asking people to pay $50 for only 10k varium.


My point is, as long as people are willing to pay 50 dollars for that much varium ED isn't going to change anything cause their pockets are full of cash.

quote:

I was correcting part of your post.


I fail to see what part you corrected in my post, because you still seem to think that that ED staff cares about what we want.

quote:

ED makes a lot more money but doesn't produce the same result. I believe thats the main problem with this game.


-_- thanks for restating what i've been trying to get at mate


Post #: 61
11/8/2011 0:02:44   
BlueKatz
Member

quote:

@AQWPlayer: Devs have all the creativity with EpicDuel, but varium pricings are AE company's issue not Devs, I have faith that if pricing would be in Devs'hand, the varium in each package will be increased. Cinderella would be the first to suggest the idea if they get varium pricing on their property.


You are wrong, the game price depend on the game staff, that's what I know just look at other AE game and see how they work, there's no reason for ED to be "different". Every game, depend on the amount of staffs have the same amount of money must be made. How many they made and how they price each items depend only on the developers because they made it and sold it, how many they make, they decide, not AE, so do the price
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 62
11/8/2011 0:21:13   
Laces
Member

@Blue Actually. You are wrong. The pricing is by AE. Nightwraith or was it Cindy has already stated that they do no not determine the pricing. The game staff are the employees that are part of a business. Remember that ED was bought by AE. AE sets the price as they own ED. ED doesn't set its own price. AE sets the amount of varium per varium package and the amount each package costs. Not weapon pricing, but the varium package pricing and the amount of varium.

< Message edited by Laces -- 11/8/2011 0:22:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 63
11/8/2011 0:22:37   
PD
Member
 

 Hey hey hey, let's provide evidence first! >.<

(Personally I know that AE controls the prices and not Titan/NW, but still, a little evidence doesn't hurt)

Oh, and MQ doesn't make the same money as ED does. It makes less. Far. Less.
Post #: 64
11/8/2011 1:01:03   
BlueKatz
Member

I don't believe so, or at least it doesn't make any sense. I wasn't talking about the cost of the package, but the amount of money ED set. Remember, AE set the amount of money the whole game must make base on the money they must fund on it (that's why game like.... MQ require less money, it has so few staffs and other work less, volunteer or something). That's obvious, as you pointed out. But the number of items and the price of each items and anything else make money depend only on developers, because they make it and set it. You think Artix himself check the quality and set price for every items in 9 AE's games? It's the ladder system. AE gain money, ED make it. You can't blame just one without blaming the other. I'm tried of hearing it every now and then
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 65
11/8/2011 2:51:40   
Drianx
Member

Since this came down to varium pricing, I don't really think varium pricing itself is the main issue.

The main issue is that no one guarantees that, if you spend 2000+ varium on the best primary weapon and its full enhancement today, it will remain the best weapon for a precise number of months. A better one may come in one to several weeks, throwing your precious one obsolete.

For example, in AQW there is an average price for AC items, so you can roughly estimate how many ACs you need for a specified number of months, considering you want to collect AC items. In EpicDuel you cannot do that - founders armor and bunnyzookas remained the best in their class for more than one year, while other rare and expensive varium items were thrown obsolete in one or two months, although their price was just as high.
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
11/8/2011 3:14:22   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

Problems with the Current Credit + Varium System:

1) Credit enhancements are ridiculously skyrocket expensive and can only be afforded by a select few. Varium is the "easy way out" resulting into easy enhancements vs. those earned by credits. Since earning by credits is much much slower, barium users can enhance up to 20 slots easily = towering effect on the imbalance between nonvars and vars.

YES, they paid for an advantage, but the advantage granted by varium should never be to large which discourages new players to play. Varium should be an incentive not a "gun to the head" action an user must make to remain competitive in the ED platform.

2) Both options of purchasing varium/credit enhancements does not guarantee a weapon's effectiveness in the future (as more weapons are constantly updated and outdated in a cyclic fashion). Therefore, it is hard to invest on a specific set of weaponry as a)it is costly just to enhance one and b) weapons are outdated.

3) Varium is not sustainable as weapons and promos lose their effectiveness over time. (Arguably with the Valentine set, founders armour, beta weaponry, etc).

Suggestions to Combat these problems (as mentioned above) and induce positive change

1) Decrease the cost of credit enhancements, levy the prices on slots which thereby allows all players to have the capacity to purchase slots. This will decrease the controversial nonvarium + varium gap and also allow players to compete healthily.

2) Coupled with the imbalance with classes, the ED staff should additionally look into the BALANCE of WEAPONRY POWER. Example (the promos in Beta+gamma such as the bunny zooka, cupid's bow, etc should match equally in power to the Curse weapons and the Halloween pumpkin exploding effect weapons).

3) A larger varium package offer at a less cheaper price (like AQworlds).

[EDIT] Bolded text to make it easier to read.

< Message edited by xxomegafaustxx -- 11/8/2011 3:18:57 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 67
11/9/2011 0:46:19   
Bjswimmer
Member
 
quote:

Suggestions to Combat these problems (as mentioned above) and induce positive change

1) Decrease the cost of credit enhancements, levy the prices on slots which thereby allows all players to have the capacity to purchase slots. This will decrease the controversial nonvarium + varium gap and also allow players to compete healthily.

2) Coupled with the imbalance with classes, the ED staff should additionally look into the BALANCE of WEAPONRY POWER. Example (the promos in Beta+gamma such as the bunny zooka, cupid's bow, etc should match equally in power to the Curse weapons and the Halloween pumpkin exploding effect weapons).

3) A larger varium package offer at a less cheaper price (like AQworlds).


Ok say ED did all this, would they be losing money?

If no then I'm proved wrong

If yes then you have your answer to why they aren't doing anything

ED staff no matter WHAT they say, has money as priority number 1 and us number 2

Induce positive change to us, but negative changed to their wallets

Post #: 68
11/9/2011 2:46:15   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

^Great question :D! I was hoping someone would address this issue. To answer you question:

Simply (in my humble perspective) no because:

1) By decreasing credit enhancements, more users would play and the level of healthy competition would increase. Varium as I see it is discouraging alternative to premature users (who are not knowledgeable of the platform whatsoever), forcing them to buy their wins in order to remain competitive.

2) Balancing the weaponry so that purchasing varium and also promo packages are sustainable and as effective as future seasonal promos. This makes purchasing varium much more credible.

3) Finally from cumulative effects as seen by 1 and 2, a larger player base would result = a larger likelihood for a larger number people within the sample to procure more varium and a greater amount of users to enter the pvp experience = plausibly more revenue for the ED team.

*This is why ED's player population has never exceeded a full capacity of servers. Even after beta, gamma and delta advancements, the number of players still hasn't accumulated over the years. This is evidence that the community is not developing as this may be in regards to;

a) New players are either discouraged since they have to pay in order to compete against higher tier members (as they ascend higher and higher in levels), and must make a voluntary commitment to purchase varium in order to remain competitive (in terms of outdated weaponry, enhancing weaponry, etc). Only few can commit to such expenses.

b) Veteran varium users who have been in the roast for a very long time easily crush new nonvar players = this has resulted into some either retiring, quitting, resigning and taking long absences from the game as there exist no monetary challenge. ED must consider both spectrums of the community, both the nonvar + vars. Similar to an ecology of organisms that coexist; The bird and the worm analogy.

c) Veteran nonvarium users who have seen the ups and downs in the imbalance = some quitting the game = some adopting varium (go to point b))

ED must look into the long term not short term causes. Of course they're getting money right now, but in the long term this has translated into reversal evolution of the game's development.


Simply, consider this analogy:

A farmer has a coup of chickens and must sell the eggs produced by the chickens to generate revenue. Some of these chickens are special chickens (hence are golden chickens), and produce golden eggs that are sold at a much greater price than the regular eggs from the regulars (hence regular chickens) in the coup. Uniquely, regular chickens have a chance to become golden chickens and produce golden eggs. Either way, the farmer is happy to sell both the eggs to the farmer's market to make a living.

However the farmer in this story while minding his own business is confronted unfortunately by a trader who wishes to trade golden eggs for all the farmer's chicken. Pondering deeply, he contemplates on whether the exchange is a good or bad one.

Should the farmer do so?

This simple parable above illustrates the need to rationalize ahead in the future; to gauge wisely on resources and use them to their maximum potential. One should never disregard the fact that the golden chicken should be valued much more than the regular chicken, rather both must be accounted for in the equation for exchange.

1) If he doesn't decide to sell the chickens, he'll have:
More chickens = greater chance of chickens become golden chickens = more golden eggs= greater revenue for the farmer

2) If he does decide to sell the chickens, he'll have:
Golden eggs = fixated amount of profit = less revenue for the farmer.

The reality is that the dev's are the farmers, the chickens are the new players of ED and the golden chickens are those that have varium. ED's much too worried about the "golden eggs" instead of the "golden chickens". It should be the other way around; "golden chickens + regular chickens" more valued than the golden egg. ED's looking into the short term and not long term: considerably, one should look into the plausible chance and potential that of the regular chicken.

Therefore, as stated above (decreasing enhancements, more reasonable varium pricing and packaging and balance of weaponry power and effectiveness) = more users to join the PvP interface = more revenue for the ED team.

One only needs to understand the simple necessity that the amount of players within the game has a pronounced effect on the game's performance and success as a marketing entertainment industry. We are why the game exist in the first place.





AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
11/9/2011 2:56:56   
Drianx
Member

@omegafaust: I agree 100%, excellent point.
AQW Epic  Post #: 70
11/9/2011 3:20:04   
xxomegafaustxx
Member

@Drainx

I'm glad that you brought this topic up. I hope the devs will look into this definitely and consider your wonderful and innovative ideas. There should be greater incentive to play the game other than farm for hours getting the desired amount of credits to enhance or get weaponry-literally everything is pretty much expensive including varium :/.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 71
11/9/2011 15:24:13   
Sipping Cider
Member

I also think this was a great topic.

Lower prices of enhancements would be great, along with lower the prices for weapons or if credits were much more easily obtained. Right now, you get more credits if you win more games, which helps you get more credits, which helps you get better weapons, which helps you win games, and there is a cycle to that. If you lose a lot, you should not be punished by leveling up faster than you can get the right amount of credits to help you get back into the competition.




Also, I think selling stuff should give you 100% of your credits and varium back.
Epic  Post #: 72
11/11/2011 3:39:32   
Bjswimmer
Member
 

 @omega

That is an excellent point, you get more in the long run if you can get those regular chickens to become golden chickens.

But now you get into human nature and instant gratification vs. later gratification and we all know when it comes to money, which one they(ED/Artix staff) will turn to.

I'm not disagreeing with you, and hopefully you aren't disagreeing with me. We both understand each others points, we both want the same thing.

I highly suggest you contact the staff of ED and present to them this idea(email maybe?)
Post #: 73
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