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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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12/10/2011 20:16:21   
Prakash 007
Member

here are my suggestions in brief
1. replace hybrid with matrix for tlms
2 interchange position of bloodsheild and hybrid on merc skill tree
3 buff hybrid to
lv 1 - 4
lv 2 - 6
lv 3 - 8
lv 4 - 10
lv 5 - 12
lv 6 - 14
lv 7 - 16
lv 8 - 17
lv 9 - 18
lv 10 - 19
4. make bloodsheild a toggle
5. make hybrid only defense
Epic  Post #: 226
12/10/2011 20:32:02   
goldslayer1
Member

@mallet
im not complaining about it, im reporting it.
today i fought several people with 66 dex or lower (mostly CH and BH)
while i have 112 dex, they blocked me 2-4 times (on the ones i lost) while i hardly blocked them.
while i having 112 dex, would not block them when they had 66 or 38, (sometimes 29 if i had technician on)

im not complaining about it, im just saying its completely unfair how i have lost atleast 8 matches to BHs and CHs who went on a blocking spree today with lower than 66 dex while i have 112.
its not logical and makes no sense.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/10/2011 20:33:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 227
12/10/2011 20:37:17   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @gold Sure sounded like complaining to me when you stated you got blocked several times and it stinked that you lost the match. You also insulted the build your opponent had and most of it was in sarcasm. Regardless of if it was whining or not, I doubt the staff want much posting about luck features since it's just that. Luck. You can't balance something that is always changing and never constant.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 228
12/10/2011 20:40:29   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

You can't balance something that is always changing and never constant.

obviously the block %s need to be lowered when theres a huge difference in dex.
because if i had 112 dex and he blocks me more than i block him when he's got no more than 66 dex, then what is the point of me having so much dex to begin with? i would much rather take out 46 dex and put it all to str and never be blocked.

and again i just lost to another CH,
blocked me 4 times with 70 dex. (42 with smoke screen applied)

and then he dares say i was the lucky one for blocking him once.


< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/10/2011 20:49:14 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 229
12/11/2011 1:59:14   
Nub Apocalypse
Member

So what if they lower the block %? Even if the minimum is 1%, you're just still going to complain about losing due to the sheer fact that you have bad luck, I personally find the block factor perfectly fine as it is, a base block chance of 10% is balanced in my opinion. gold, why is it that half of your posts are complaints about something and you coincidentally have a scenario for every single complaint? Just take it easy, it's just a game after all, I understand that some people want to win for the sake of their own pride, but in the end, the pride of being good in a game will likely end up useless.
Post #: 230
12/11/2011 3:51:27   
edwardvulture
Member

wtf the frost special shouldn't be activated when blocked.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 231
12/11/2011 9:46:18   
FrostWolv
Member

Hi guyz it has beeen about 1 and 1/2 months for me ... I m still not playing dis coz of ill balance back then ..........

So can anyone tell me about ED balance improvement till now since I left playing??

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 232
12/11/2011 9:55:26   
theholyfighter
Member

above: Nope no balance, except highering tacticals' skills requirements(that doesn't affect a lot, agree?)
and we blood mages still got no damage buffs or opponent defence debuffs neither energy draining skills

I'd say it's still UNBALANCED
AQW Epic  Post #: 233
12/12/2011 4:44:54   
Remorse
Member

Gold you are complaining about luck dont try to style it up...


What you need to realise is you use builds that SHOULD get destryed by luck, so basically its your own fault.
Epic  Post #: 234
12/12/2011 5:33:14   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

What you need to realise is you use builds that SHOULD get destryed by luck, so basically its your own fault.

what exactly is a build that should get destroyed by luck?
my str build? ur robot spamming focus BH? (priod to the robot nerf)
and not is isn't my fault. why should i have the odds stacked against me because im using a certain build?


the build i made takes skills.
so far i only seen 2 who can use it at its best potential.
me and turkishincubus.

quote:

Gold you are complaining about luck dont try to style it up...

then by ur other sentence, ur complaining about tlm ;)
AQW Epic  Post #: 235
12/12/2011 5:58:58   
Wootz
Member

quote:

then by ur other sentence, ur complaining about tlm ;)


Do you mean this:
quote:

What you need to realise is you use builds that SHOULD get destryed by luck, so basically its your own fault.
?
Because that isn't complaining...
AQW Epic  Post #: 236
12/12/2011 6:17:20   
Remorse
Member

^
Exactly,


And even if I was complaining about TLMs ( Im not)
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF BALANCE DISCUSSION THREAD.
However it sepcifacly says not to complain about luck, though I guess ideas on ways to fix luck is allowed.


More to the point, you dont have to be a TLM to use builds that get destroyed by luck, any high str build usally do.

Also builds which require the use of high power to beat the oppenets quickly, so overall Id say any build which trys to kill players quick, after all if they didnt have luck against them they would be unstopable.


AND I know for a fact gold like you have stated you are one who likes the quick kills, often taking people down too quickly often making people second guess their creative build as it would not stand a chance agianst powerbuilds, hence destroying builds, SO im glad luck is agianst them.




< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/12/2011 6:22:04 >
Epic  Post #: 237
12/12/2011 6:22:18   
Wootz
Member

I just faced him a few minutes ago, he uses a TLM Strenght build.
AQW Epic  Post #: 238
12/12/2011 6:25:58   
Remorse
Member

^ No surprise

TO his defence he will proberly say I have also been succseful in other classes.....

Seen him as a STR CH and as a STR BH......


He really brings the bad luck on himself.


Maybe he doesnt understand that it is fair and needed in his case because without luck these power build would be all you see and the main determinate of who wins would be Whoever starts... then people will pile tsr and support then start complaining when they dont start every time.

It is honestly a pathetic joke.
Epic  Post #: 239
12/12/2011 6:27:51   
Wootz
Member

Agreed.
He likes to make a big mess of things that are normal.
AQW Epic  Post #: 240
12/12/2011 8:20:25   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

And even if I was complaining about TLMs ( Im not)
THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT OF BALANCE DISCUSSION THREAD.

if thats the point of a balance discussion then why even bother replying saying im complaining?

quote:

Because that isn't complaining...

she said that power build should get destroyed because im using a str tlm. and according to her thats OP.

quote:

More to the point, you dont have to be a TLM to use builds that get destroyed by luck, any high str build usally do.

Also builds which require the use of high power to beat the oppenets quickly, so overall Id say any build which trys to kill players quick, after all if they didnt have luck against them they would be unstopable.

im not saying i have to be a tlm, i want to be tlm because to me its more tactical than the other classes.
and seriously my build will get 35 wins an hour at best. how is that considered quick?
my average match against a varium player that actually knows what they are doing is about 10-15 rounds.
and i even had matches against CH last about 25 rounds. ohh wow how fast my build can be -.-
the only thing i kill fast are newbies, low lvls, and npcs, but then again so does any other build in the game.

u want fast? ED already made sure of killing and brutally murdering the only true fast build. str merc. it had fast wins, but came at a huge price of low %, and the fact that u could loose as fast as u won.

quote:

I just faced him a few minutes ago, he uses a TLM Strenght build.

yeah i remember, 3 maxxed skills. static, malf, and mass.


quote:

TO his defence he will proberly say I have also been succseful in other classes.....

Seen him as a STR CH and as a STR BH......
i have been successful with other classes. so? str bh or ch, just because im a tlm doesn't mean i should have bad luck just because i am part of that class or build.

quote:

Maybe he doesnt understand that it is fair and needed in his case because without luck these power build would be all you see and the main determinate of who wins would be Whoever starts... then people will pile tsr and support then start complaining when they dont start every time.
and what are these so called power builds? every build has its power. and whoever starts? well i guess thats another RNG problem u fail to realize isn't it? if i remember correctly most people list of "balanced classes" are ch bh and mage. while if a bh and CH starts he is most likely going to win the match. wanna know how i know this?

cause i fought several CH that went first, had low amount of dex, and block my atom smasher.
so lets see, that already 2 lost turns of me doing nothing and my HP already half way thru. u know how hard it is to pull back from that?

what i fail to see is why u agree that a 66 dex build not counting smokescreen should block a build with 112 dex several times.
if this is some type of joke by u, then u have a bad sense of humor.

and seriously anyone who uses str or support is automatically considered a piler or abuser. why?
its pretty obvious that support and str are the main offensive stats, while tech and dex are the main defensive stats.

but why hate on the offense so much? why not hate on the defense when its used too much? apparently thats not considered abuse?
if u want a build that has a decent offense then u need str or support, by that its pretty stupid to say i should have bad luck because i want some offense on my build.
str and support are offensive stats for a reason.


quote:

It is honestly a pathetic joke.

yeah 66 dex (not counting smokescreen) blocking me 2-3 times a match while i have 112 dex is a pathetic joke.

quote:

He likes to make a big mess of things that are normal.

yeah people make a big mess of things about tlm *looks at remorse* i can totally somewhat agree with ur statement. except i hate how u direct it at me when i have a problem with how luck factors work.
AQW Epic  Post #: 241
12/12/2011 10:27:39   
Remorse
Member

OMG how about this....


USE A BUILD THAT ISNT STRENGTH

And try to be sucseful with it, maybe then youl relise what we are all talking about.


I never said STR builds arnt good, in many cases they ARE borderline op, their main weakness being luck which is why i said it destrys them.


If your wondering why your luck is bad, try some calculations.

Your using a str build so per round You say last 10-15 turns a str build would proberly strike or use a blockable aroun 10/15 times other times being heal and booster and gun.

Were as another build lets just say doesnt use strength BUT happens to have less DEX then you, however they only use blockables 4/15

YOU WILL FIND,

That luck is fair in the long run because most of the times when you are complaining about you being blocked by low dex players it is because during the whole time of the game the low dex players HAD a higher chance to block even though they had low dex SIMPLY because of the amount of blockables you use.

ANother example is I am using a VERY high dex focus build, BUT I seem to be getting blocked just as much as before... WHY? because I have higher dex I asume I wont get blcoked so much therefore I use more blockables therefore making my block chance same as it was before the extreme dex.


DO you understand now?


< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/12/2011 10:30:39 >
Epic  Post #: 242
12/12/2011 10:44:05   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

USE A BUILD THAT ISNT STRENGTH

And try to be sucseful with it, maybe then youl relise what we are all talking about.

yup, i did with mage.
i used super charge, with 111 dex.
to my surprise i still got malf, and assim block alot. still got 94%-95%

i also used a support mage build same issue with malf and assim. still got 97% tho.

quote:

I never said STR builds arnt good, in many cases they ARE borderline op, their main weakness being luck which is why i said it destrys them.

funny because i didn't need blocks to beat them as support mage, or as super charge. totally "OP' huh?


quote:

If your wondering why your luck is bad, try some calculations.

Your using a str build so per round You say last 10-15 turns a str build would proberly strike or use a blockable aroun 10/15 times other times being heal and booster and gun.

Were as another build lets just say doesnt use strength BUT happens to have less DEX then you, however they only use blockables 4/15

YOU WILL FIND,

That luck is fair in the long run because most of the times when you are complaining about you being blocked by low dex players it is because during the whole time of the game the low dex players HAD a higher chance to block even though they had low dex SIMPLY because of the amount of blockables you use.

ANother example is I am using a VERY high dex focus build, BUT I seem to be getting blocked just as much as before... WHY? because I have higher dex I asume I wont get blcoked so much therefore I use more blockables therefore making my block chance same as it was before the extreme dex.


DO you understand now?
by ur case then the % should balance out alot more the more blockables i use.

if i had 112 dex against a 66 dex, but only used 4/15 blockables and 1 was blocked. it means the other guy block 25%

but if i did 10/15 blockables and was blocked 3-5 the % just went up to 30%-50%
meaning its more messed up than u calculated, specially with the amount of dex involved.

now we all have a base chance to block of 10%
if i have 112 dex, and enemy has 66. when the % is calculated, i have a 33% block chance
and enemy should have a -13% block chance. but it can never be below 4%.

so with 4% the enemy can block me 2-4 times a match.

even if i did 15/15 blockables 1 block is already above 4%

now lets remember that fact that im not counting in smokescreen yet, which even then still has no effect on enemy's block chance because it cant go below 4%.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/12/2011 10:45:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 243
12/12/2011 10:49:01   
Remorse
Member

^So 4% minumum is the lowest block chance having said that how big does the dex gap have to be to make the openent only block 4%?

Also so if you were "soo" afective with you mage at killing everyone why did you run back to your precious str builds and your precious TLMS?

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/12/2011 10:50:29 >
Epic  Post #: 244
12/12/2011 10:51:38   
goldslayer1
Member

@remorse
quote:

Block is calculated by adding the block chance adjustment to the default block chance (currently 10%).
Block chance = 10% + Block Chance Adjustment
The chance to block can never be less than 4% The chance to block can never be more than 40%
Block Chance Adjustment = (Defender's Dexterity - Attacker's Dexterity) / 2
Example 1:
Defender has 100 Dexterity
Attacker has 60 Dexterity
Block Adjustment = (100 - 60) / 2 = 20
Chance to Block = 10 + 20 = 30%
Example 2:
Defender has 60 Dexterity
Attacker has 100 Dexterity
Block Adjustment = (60 - 100) / 2 = -20
Chance to Block = 10 + -20 = -10%
Since the block chance can never reduce below 4%, the Chance to Block becomes 4%
Example 3:
Defender has 30 Dexterity (Also, the defender has a -40 Dexterity Debuff Applied)
Attacker has 29 Dexterity
Dexterity never uses negative values in calculations ... so even though a debuff is applied, the Defender's dexterity value is calculated using the minimum value of 1 instead of -10.
Block Adjustment = (1 - 29) / 2 = -14
Chance to Block = 10 + -14 = -4%
Since the block chance can never reduce below 4%, the Chance to Block becomes 4%
A good rule of thumb is that for every 2 points of Dexterity you have more or less than your enemy, your chance to block increases or decreases by 1% respectively.


according to that, if we have equal dex, its 10%. but if i have 12 dex over u. then ur already at 4%. altho ur block chance is low, mines would still be at 16%.

now imagine with a huge gap of 80 dex.


quote:

Also so if you were "soo" afective with you mage at killing everyone why did you run back to your precious str builds and your precious TLMS?
i got bored of it. just like str CH. thats where u go assuming i like "OP" stuff when i can do just as good with other classes/builds. i like tlms because to me it involves more strategy, atleast my build anyways, so dont judge it based on average build.

EDIT: fixxed a type, its 12 dex not 16.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/12/2011 10:58:44 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 245
12/12/2011 12:39:01   
Remorse
Member

^ Maybe its cause TLMs have an unfair advanatge with hybrid...


AT least old mercs didnt have reroute and could be countered.


Epic  Post #: 246
12/12/2011 12:45:32   
Zeoth
Member

Yea they could be countered but people complained about them just as much as they complain about TLM
Post #: 247
12/12/2011 12:48:49   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

^ Maybe its cause TLMs have an unfair advanatge with hybrid...


AT least old mercs didnt have reroute and could be countered.

they could be countered, by making good builds.
sadly it doesn't happen much these days. most of the old bright players quit the game.

quote:

Yea they could be countered but people complained about them just as much as they complain about TLM

yup, then they got murdered :(

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/12/2011 12:49:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 248
12/12/2011 12:52:44   
PD
Member
 

 You could just implement a standard and balance system to solve everything instead of shooting into the dark like what this entire thread has been doing for the last 3 continuations...

It's a lot of time saved with no sweat off of people's backs.
Post #: 249
12/12/2011 14:37:12   
Wootz
Member

A'ight. This thread is now 100% about luck.

Now, what about giving some thoughts about nerfing and buffing skill, along with making up NEW skills.
AQW Epic  Post #: 250
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