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11/29/2011 19:58:37   
frogbones
Banned


 Yes, it's my monthly post about the use of boosters. Go ahead and stop reading if you're not embarassed to use them. Otherwise, read on ....

Let me preface my post with my experience: Beta/Founder who has been a BH, CH, and TlM. Not that it matters, but w/e, just saying.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand. Boosters. Everyone can use them, but not everyone does. Why? They are cheap enough for non Variums to afford and accessable for everyone. Yet if you ask players, some are totally against them, while others follow the mantra, "If it's in the game, use it."

(Of course, I am totally against boosters and view using them as weakness.)

What do you think? I suppose my main question is, Isn't using boosters inherently admitting that you've been outdueled? Think about it. Why else would you use them? (I'm mostly talking 1v1 here.)

If you battle someone and it's an even fight (meaning close to even levels/enhancements and no ridiculous crits or multiple blocks), and it's down to the wire, and then your opponent boosts ... don't you end up feeling that the previously "good game" has been cheapened?




AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
11/29/2011 20:12:09   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

Go ahead and stop reading if you're not embarassed to use them. Otherwise, read on ....

That doesn't make sense.

_____________________________
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
11/29/2011 20:34:02   
Epic Pwnser
Member

You mean:
quote:

Go ahead and stop reading if you're not embarassed to use them. Otherwise, read on ....

Well yes and no.
Yes because obviously you use a booster if you don't wanna die.
No because obviously, the battle doesn't end until one guy is standing and one guy is on the ground quivering... and you don't want to be the guy on the ground. So with the use of the booster, you haven't been outdueled until you actually fall on the ground.
In fact, using a booster means you're outdueling them if they don't have one. It's all about strategy and using your resources.
quote:

"If it's in the game, use it."

Yep.
If you think using a booster is a weakness, let's say.. transitive property...using TLM as a class is a weakness. Or it's weak to use varium to help win more battles. Or its weak to use a class skill when its optional and you always have a strike button... Doesn't make sense right?
quote:

If you battle someone and it's an even fight (meaning close to even levels/enhancements and no ridiculous crits or multiple blocks), and it's down to the wire, and then your opponent boosts ... don't you end up feeling that the previously "good game" has been cheapened?

Then you use your own two boosts you have supplied (if you don't have it, it's your own fault), and bludgeon them to death faster. (TM!)

And by the way, I don't play much now, but its reasonably dumb not to do what is in your own interests in a 1v1 battle, if you play to win.
And if you have a different set of values, then by all means, except there's people that aren't you and you only.
That's the reason why boosters exist in ED.
And now, homework. xD

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 3
11/29/2011 20:36:36   
rej
Member

It proves that you're pro enough to not risk losing to a lesser player because of pure luck or a fluke.

_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/29/2011 20:43:05   
AQWPlayer
Member

I am not ashamed to use boosters against haxxors. *cough* NightWraith, Titan, BigTuna, George Lowe *cough*
Otherwise, I usually don't use them.
AQW  Post #: 5
11/29/2011 20:56:59   
frogbones
Banned
quote:

And by the way, I don't play much now, but its reasonably dumb not to do what is in your own interests in a 1v1 battle, if you play to win.


Unfortunately, this is the mentality that plagues many governments, corporations, and, yes, individuals who play 1v1 computer games.

I suppose it's a choice between losing with honor (I'm not even gonna get into beating someone who boosts twice when you don't) or winning with dishonor.

If you place "winning" above all else, then boosting is the way to go. But if you prefer to play with a certain code of honor (I know it sounds ridiculous, but I stand by it), then boosting is forbidden.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
11/29/2011 21:00:15   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

Boosters Are A Part Of The Game And There Should Be No Shame In Using Them.

They Can Be A Way To Survive Until You Can Use Rage Or Heal Loop, Or Used For Any Number Of Battle Tactics.

It's Great To Have Options And Boosters Are One Of Them.

I Personally Use One Early For A Minor Heal In 2vs2 On Myself Or A Partner To Good Effect.

The Issue I Have, Which Is Rarely Mentioned, Is That Health Boosters Are Seriously Outdated And In Need Of An Update.

Health Boosters Were Established In The Days When The Level Cap Was 30 And Heals Were Improved By Support.

A 25 HP Heal Is Not Much For The Level 33-34 Player Range. I Wish They Would Introduce A 3rd High Level Booster That Heals Like A 30 HP Range.

Just A Thought.

~ Buffy
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
11/29/2011 21:02:09   
Fay Beeee
Member

Its a game. If you want to wait for rage, then boost, use if you have to.

Yes I am one of the ones that says
"If you can buy it, you can use it"

Sometimes I do it just for the fun of it.

It seems I am not as serious and you Frogbones.
I do not associate this with governments or countries. This is pure fantasy. :)

_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 8
11/29/2011 21:19:07   
frogbones
Banned


 Whether it's governments, countries, or computer games, one can draw a parallel in the mentality behind all of them.

That mentality is what I speak of.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
11/29/2011 21:26:07   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 I seldom use them on my Main account but when I play on my alts I use them mainly for fighting higher levels. I don't use them unless I feel that I can win with them and only with them. I don't use them against full varium higher level players but I sometimes use them against high level non varium or part varium players.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/29/2011 21:33:35   
frogbones
Banned


 I agree ND. To me, you've summed up the "right" reasons to use boosters. Otherwise, in an even duel, using boosters is indicative of being outmatched.

Hence my opinion that using them is a symbol of weakness---not strength.

< Message edited by frogbones -- 11/29/2011 21:34:02 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 11
11/29/2011 21:45:02   
helloguy
Member

i use em to merc loop
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/29/2011 21:46:28   
Chosen 0ne
Banned
quote:


If you battle someone and it's an even fight (meaning close to even levels/enhancements and no ridiculous crits or multiple blocks), and it's down to the wire, and then your opponent boosts ... don't you end up feeling that the previously "good game" has been cheapened?



Hate it when it happens. Some people are such noobs... I am against boosters unless im doing a boss battle.

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
11/29/2011 21:47:57   
Illuminator
Member

Sorry about the long post, but I have a lot to say about this. I hope you don't mind reading all of it.

Personally I find nothing wrong with using boosters. Energy boosters are the only way for classes that don't have energy regen to regain energy after an energy drain. It's a form of counter for that sort of thing. But I get the feeling energy boosters aren't the ones in question here (correct me if I'm wrong).

I always carry 2 boosters, at least 1 of them being health. However I only use them in a few situations.
If my opponent gets some crits or blocks and booster will give me the win I will use them.
If my opponent uses boosters and I feel it is necessary for me to as well then I will use a booster or two.
If I know that I will die next turn and a booster will save me and most likely give me the win.

I've found that a well timed booster can turn the battle in my favor just like timing my weapons right so I can use the one I want with rage or taking their energy right before they would heal or use something like massacre. It adds another dynamic level to the game.

If a person legitimately out played me or had a better/equal build than me I don't usually boost because it probably wouldn't get me a win, but also because they genuinely beat me and they 'deserve' the win. I don't boost just because I can.

I can understand why a person would not like boosters at all. In many cases all they do is make the battle longer and effectively waste credits for one or both players, which is pointless.

If you forgot to equip boosters before a battle and your opponent used 2 boosters then I suppose you could consider that an unfair advantage and you could blame the other person for using boosters to win unfairly. However, if you forgot to equip your sidearm before a fight and your opponent didn't would you blame them if you lost? If weapons were consumable like boosters would they be looked down upon in the same way? Why is boosting not ok but using Field Medic is? If boosters were free would opinions be different? If boosters cost energy to use would people still not like them? Why are boosters not honorable but anything else is?

In a battling game you're supposed to use all resources at your disposal to beat your opponent so why limit it to "all but this one".

My opinion is that anyone is free to use boosters to their heart's content. If you don't like using boosters that's fine, perhaps you enjoy playing a bit differently than I do. I always carry 2 boosters just in case because in ED you never know what's going to happen.

Out of curiosity why do you consider using boosters a symbol of weakness?
AQ Epic  Post #: 14
11/29/2011 21:54:01   
Chosen 0ne
Banned


 If boosters were free, then it would be different.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 15
11/29/2011 22:10:02   
frogbones
Banned


 To answer your last question, Wiseman:

Do people boost when they are winning? No!

When do people boost? When they are losing!

Therefore, if you need to boost (again, in a relatively "even" match), it almost always means that your opponent has outdueled you, has a better build, or is a tac merc ;)



AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 16
11/29/2011 22:26:51   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 Interesting thread.

My thoughts are, they are used for a variety of applications. Boosters are incorporated within my build now and have been since the inception of Agility. Using all the tools provided in this game to be the most competitive one can be, this is my belief of honor.

There was a time I was against using them. There was a time I was against dueling NPCs. There was a time I was against the use of bots.

Bottom line, if a player is not fully prepared to compete to their best ability, that is their responsibility.

Honor comes from doing their best, and carrying a good character before, during and after the match.

Some may disagree with me; it is fine.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 11/29/2011 22:27:23 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
11/29/2011 22:28:51   
Stabilis
Member

Only the health boosters are loser boosters (LOL). The energy boosters are very conventional and used strategically, tactical.

You may have honour but I got faith! Or is it hope?

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 11/29/2011 22:31:22 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 18
11/29/2011 22:38:54   
Laces
Member

I'm not for booster nor against them. I don't like when people use them because I outmatched them, but if I crit/deflected/blocked a critical attack and they used a booster, its fine. I don't hate people for using it. I know I could use it as well and thats what makes the difference. They used it and I could have done the same, its my laziness. I don't see how people can be against it unless of course its a fair fight, you're about to win, and they use a booster. I can understand that. But then again, you could do the same but you're just too lazy to.
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
11/29/2011 22:53:01   
DeathGuard
Member

quote:


Do people boost when they are winning? No!

When do people boost? When they are losing!

Therefore, if you need to boost (again, in a relatively "even" match), it almost always means that your opponent has outdueled you, has a better build, or is a tac merc ;)
Wow, this is a lie but also a truth at the same time, know what I mean right? In somesituations, I can win using gun/aux/assimilation but I use an energy boost to use supercharge and kill him with more efficiency. It may seem that I like to waste credits and I do, but I like to enjoy of every battle I'm in, since I don't know if I will be alive next min/hour/day/year or whatever else to play this game. Considering, the part of tac mercs, many of the times I lost to one of them, they used two health boosters and I don't. I lose because I forgot to equipped them or I don't have one in my inventory, some players have to use boosters to win me.

quote:

My thoughts are, they are used for a variety of applications. Boosters are incorporated within my build now and have been since the inception of Agility. Using all the tools provided in this game to be the most competitive one can be, this is my belief of honor.

There was a time I was against using them. There was a time I was against dueling NPCs. There was a time I was against the use of bots.
I like your reply, Jzaanu. The feeling others have can't be understand, until we do the same things to feel it too. I know how it feels to npc, I was nonvarium some months ago and I had to npc to get exp, credits and wins. It was not that easy as in beta phase but I go on, now that I'm a varium user, I understand the nonvarium's feelings. I feel sometimes that I would like to be nonvarium ago, I will do it until I get the best nonvarium gear which will be soon enough. Nonvariums sometimes enjoy more the game than varium users does, but that are in some situations.

On topic: The use of boosters aren't forbidden, since they're in-game, that means they aren't illegal and I can use them. If someone uses a boosters he/she should be ashamed, many think like that, so my question is, does players that uses varium should be ashamed/embarrased too? In my opinion, both shouldn't be embarrased.

< Message edited by DeathGuard -- 11/29/2011 22:54:56 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 20
11/29/2011 23:06:07   
Nexus...
Member

In a game that is based around winning, and which revolves around luck, I think boosters are anything BUT weak. Boosters are an item in the game, available to everyone, and this is a PVP game. Like it or not, almost every aspect of EpicDuel is based on luck. How much damage you do might be calculated mathematically, but at the end of the day its who was lucky enough to put a few more stat points here or a few more stat points there to get them that block, crit, deflect, first turn, rage, extra point of damage etc. (you see what I am saying?). Since every build has a counter (yes every build has a counter build) there are times when you will find yourself outmatched in a certain stat, or up against an opponent who has a build which directly counters yours. In this instance it comes down to the nature of winning and losing. You can do all you want, try everything, but sometimes (especially in EpicDuel) strategy just doesn't cut it, there are just to many variables. At this point you might need a little bit of help, and this is where a health booster (energy boosters are different *see illuminators post*) can come in handy. While you may see it as dishonorable action, I see it as an evening of the playing field. If you are a truly good player, and if your build really is that superior, a boost wouldn't make the difference between a win or a loss. However, in many cases a boost can be the difference between life and death for a player who was just a little unlucky or a bit outmatched, and in these scenarios I believe HP boosters are honorable, vital, worth it, and utterly acceptable.

In my book, honor comes from using every resource available to righteously take down your opponent without the use of luck (which is sadly very abundant). Whether you use boosters or not should have no effect on whether you retain your honor (or not).


Prophet
*Righteously* most nearly means w/o luck in this case.

< Message edited by Nexus... -- 11/29/2011 23:10:14 >
Epic  Post #: 21
11/29/2011 23:19:11   
frogbones
Banned
quote:

Bottom line, if a player is not fully prepared to compete to their best ability, that is their responsibility.


Scenario: Two people agree to have a fistfight to settle a dispute. They show up at the locale and get ready to duel. Punches are thrown, kicks are landed, and there is much grappling.

Three minutes in to the fray, both are weary, spent. The next punch could decide the outcome. Realizing this, one duelist bends down and pulls a small knife from his pant leg. He lunges forward with it, piercing the chest of his opponent.

Wearily standing over his fallen opponent, he has won. He has survived.

The victor raises his arms in victory. He lets out an exasperated cry of relief, takes one last look at the man laying on the ground, and limps off into the shadows.

*************************************************

Across the street, a father and son exchange looks of disbelief. The father begins to explain to the son what they had both just witnessed. "Son," he says gravely, "That man on the ground there, he's dead. He died fighting for something ..." Disappointed and at a loss for words, his voice trailed off into the cold night air.

"But he won, Dad," observed the boy. "He beat the other guy and gets to go home. That guy, the one laying in his own blood, he's dead. He doesn't get to go home."

With a deep sigh, the father looks back down at his son. "We won't remember this night because someone lost or someone won. We'll remember it because one man fought with honor, he fought straight up, while the other one decided to tip the balance by any means necessary."

*********************************************
So when you ask yourself, "What kind of legacy will I be remembered by?" know that it won't be determined by your win/loss ratio. If you need to boost to win, people will think back to your fights and record with a "mental asterisk."

You may have won the fight, but you lost the respect of the fans.




AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 22
11/29/2011 23:21:01   
drinde
Member

^
You could use that to support the "No Heal!" people too. -.-'
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 23
11/29/2011 23:26:54   
Algorithm
Member

:P
Post #: 24
11/29/2011 23:29:46   
Buffy A. Summers
Member

Frogbones... That Was A Great Story And Good Analogy...BUT...

This Macho Honor Stuff Is Completely Relative In Game Play.

For Example... What If My Opponent Uses Tech Up, Defense Matrix, Or Reflex Boost To Shield?

Is That Not Cowardly Or Dishonorable? Or Has A Heal Loop Option Build With Reroute?

What About Players Who Abuse Bots As Was Done In The Past Before Gamma Bots Double Attacks Were Nerfed?

Unfortunately, Your Opponent Is Free To Use Any Means Necessary In His/Her Arsenal To Win.

Bots, Healing, Boosters, Shield Skills, Lots Of Varium Enhancements... Etc.

That's The Way The Game Is Played. This 'No Boost' Or 'No Heal' Thing Is Silly.

Imagine If I Said, Casting Any Shield Type Skill Is Dishonorable For Victory?



< Message edited by Buffy A. Summers -- 11/29/2011 23:35:17 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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