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12/1/2011 0:16:40   
frogbones
Banned


 What if the Tac Merc skill tree was changed, so that Blood Shield replaced Technician, and Stun Grenade replaced Maul?

Maul gives a 20% defense ignore, plus a minimum 1 in 5 chance to stun, plus the damage done by the attack. AND it only costs 12 energy.

Compare that with Stun Grenade: Damage improves with Dexterity, a stat which most Tac Mercs don't typically spam. If I did my estimating correctly, 86 dex will yield only 38 damage on a level 1 Grenade. After defense is factored in, we're talking what, 8 or 10 damage, plus a 30% max chance to stun. And that costs 16 energy.

Put another way: Str TlMs can do do 30+ damage and have almost a 25% chance to stun.

After the nerf, they'd be doing 8 or so damage with a 30% chance to stun.

Do you think this is a good idea?

Discuss!

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
12/1/2011 0:25:10   
axiel
Member

some ones came up with this idea before you..

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AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/1/2011 0:26:48   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 I can confirm from questions answered by both Ashari and Wiseman that TLMs will have Stun Grenade in place of Maul. I don't know if they plan anything with Technician or not but it's a possibility it may get replaced simply because it buffs too much for the class(resistance, Smokescreen, Surgical Strike).
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
12/1/2011 0:27:40   
goldslayer1
Member

well i always said technician didn't belong there in the first place.
and i already heard maul was being removed like a week or so ago.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
12/1/2011 1:21:33   
Remorse
Member

I actuly said they should place stun grende with maul about two months ago...

BUt still these little changes wont change much.

They will still be abused be all levels of skill level mainly by those with lacking knowledge of the game.

To truley make TLMs a Tactical class rather then a haven for all looking for effortless wins (im not saying all do Im saying alot of people do)

It would be alot simpler to change Hybrid for DM remove alot of their requiremnts, and makre frenzy swordable agian.

It may seem like a big change,

But its either this or REMOVE, REMOVE,REMOVE what will end up is basically everything good in this class will be removed as long as the hybrid reroute combo exists


WHY continue to remvve nerf and requirments etc when only 1!!!! thing needs to be changed it is a solution to all,

Without their constant high defences the class will be forced to Think to win even though most do, it forces the anoying build copeirs to do the same and hopefully show people their true colours.

Without hybrid TLMs wont be given an emidiate advanatge as soon as the battle starts and they will force them to sacrifise stats for defence.



WHY do people continue to look at the problem individually, Changing Little things will sure fix some of those probelms SHORT RUN but as long as the have the constant defence as well as reroute effortless wining builds will rein and those of the TLMs who are strategic will be given an advantage over someone of similar skill level.


Mark my words this will not be the end of TLM problems for as long as the continue to have hybrid with reroute.


Just wait you will all see.





< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/1/2011 1:33:22 >
Epic  Post #: 5
12/1/2011 1:51:09   
BlueKatz
Member

Umm I actually like the idea of replacing BS with Technician, it requires them using max BS instead of using lv 1 Technician and life damage is quite damaging for Tank build while get even less MP back, despite BS being better than Technician
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 6
12/1/2011 5:14:26   
King FrostLich
Member

Stun Grenade replaced with maul? It's unblockable and has a greater chance to stun unless maul has been adjusted to a higher level.
Epic  Post #: 7
12/1/2011 7:01:32   
FrostHS
Banned


 ^Really? Because i got into 3 battle all had a level 1 maul and stunned me. I used my plasma grenade all 3 with 40% due to max shadow and i didn't get any stun. I also had higher support. What exactly does that tell you?
EDIT: no it wasn't 1 battle. It was 3.

< Message edited by FrostHS -- 12/1/2011 15:12:02 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 8
12/1/2011 7:48:27   
King FrostLich
Member

FrostHS, that is only one battle. If you sum up only one battle, then by its means you are just only counting one battle making you think that its not overpowered.
Epic  Post #: 9
12/1/2011 8:21:45   
Remorse
Member

^First off maul is defintely worse (better for TLMs).


Sure te stun % is lower AT level 1.
Dont forget maul can get the highest stunning chance in the game.


But that is not what makes it oped, its the fact it can easily used and the fact it is worth using even without the stun.

Maul is gaurteied a more powerful attack then strike even at level one, other stunning moves would have to get around lvl 6-10 to equal the damagae of a strike not to metnion at that level is is double the mana cost for something that is not as strong.....


What makes maul obtain frequent stuns is not necesarily its stun chance rather its frequency of use.
The average game a str build is likely to maul more then once which double the chance to stun making it a higher stun chance then all other moves,
Also the fact that it can be used as a attck strategy not a last resort, maul has the power to be worth it easily timed low cool down no warm up...... I can go on but hopefully by now you guys get the picture.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/1/2011 8:23:53 >
Epic  Post #: 10
12/1/2011 9:08:21   
Sparticus
Member

I think the idea here is to make the skill unappealing and not to make it useless. Stun grenades are not abused now because even with a higher stun rate they are just not that effective as a strategy. Numbers aside, stun grenades will not be abused like maul because they cost too much and do too little damage for their cost. Its almost a wasted turn if the stun doesn't take. To make the damage worth it, you would have to waste a bunch of energy and not get a stitch more % chance to stun for it.

quote:

Stun Grenade Improves With: Dexterity (+1 damage at 26 Dexterity; +1 damage per 4 Dexterity after)

quote:

Maul Improves With: Strength


This is the other reason, STR builds can use Maul as a cheap and very strong attack with the added effect of a possible stun where Stun Grenade will give a fixed stun chance but sadly yields very low damage in STR builds since their DEX is usually in this range and can easily be nerfed by smoke screen.

quote:

DEX:
66: 21-26
70: 22-27
74: 23-28


Mid 30 smoke screen makes the DEX abysmal and the Stun Grenade damage negligible.

quote:

Post Smoke DEX
33: 11-14
36: 12-15
39: 13-16
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
12/1/2011 13:29:29   
I am Primal
Member
 

 alot of str builds have high dex nowadays this nerf will do nothing.
Post #: 12
12/1/2011 14:39:52   
frogbones
Banned


 ^
Did you even read the original post? Crunch the numbers yourself and then tell me there's not a significant difference in damage, and only a small difference in Stun chance.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/1/2011 14:45:19   
I am Primal
Member
 

 yes i read it and i see you copied this idea from someone else. if this happened i don;t see it helping much
Post #: 14
12/1/2011 14:49:35   
Smackie El Frog
Member

I just don't get why they would take away technician from TLM. Every class gets a stat boost skill in dex or tech which is mainly used for defense or resistance purposes except the mercs? They really like to crap on the mercs skill tree sometimes...if they take away maul and technician the tlm should get at least bunker buster back.

_____________________________
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 15
12/1/2011 14:54:28   
supermasivo
Member

I dont know what to say but if they change technician instead blood shield they will make a big favor to my build couse +13 res is better than high lvl technician (in case if u wanna defend in res) and blood shield last much longer than technician so +1 bloodshield to TLM...
BUT! MAUL is one of my fauvorite skills and there i will get very very upset QQ very usefull skill a big loss.
Epic  Post #: 16
12/1/2011 14:58:20   
Smackie El Frog
Member

/\ bloodshield over technician? Are you mad?!? Technician does what bs does and is much better at it since it adds to attacks that improve with tech such as bots and surgical strike. For tech builds its a god send vs tm and ch.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/1/2011 15:03:32   
supermasivo
Member

^ Technician is totally useless in my build, im only speaking in my case... id LOVE to have bloodshield i got 125 hp so 10-12 less hp dont bother me at all... and a energy bunny armor against energy str tlms, TMs and clevers CH without taking off my hybrid armor and leting my defense without anything. So i repeat IN MY CASE/Build Bloodshield is 100000000000000000000 better than tech couse i dont care about robots and improve smoke? NAH, my smoke is lvl 1 and i dont even use it.
Epic  Post #: 18
12/1/2011 15:06:28   
Smackie El Frog
Member

Lol well if you are only talking about your 1 build over all the tlm builds out there then of course you'd be happy but I hope they try to please the masses than a few players...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 19
12/1/2011 15:09:51   
supermasivo
Member

Im totally sure that 90% of STR (tlm) players like me will pick bloodshield instead tech ... tech is good for 5 focus, blood is for str players, why? couse bloddshield gives u a TANKER hability better than a lvl 8-10 tech.
Epic  Post #: 20
12/1/2011 15:24:04   
Stabilis
Member

Should TLM be able to restore energy?
AQ Epic  Post #: 21
12/1/2011 15:32:45   
supermasivo
Member

^ Why not?
Epic  Post #: 22
12/1/2011 15:52:34   
Stabilis
Member

Mercenaries don't, tech mage does, bounty hunter small energy with reflex boost, blood mage small energy with reflex boost, cyber hunter does.

Oh you wanted why?

First of all I'm asking other people's opinions, so asking me isn't getting someone other than my own opinion.

My major point is why does tactical mercenary have a mage passive?

As far as I know TlM are supposed crafty engineers, they are regular people, not tech mages. Mages have some mystic ability to subvert health into energy, regular people don't. Apparently TlM aren't mages, and reroute doesn't sit well.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 12/1/2011 15:58:12 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 23
12/1/2011 16:02:37   
sylar67
Member
 
quote:

I Have an Idea


KEEP IT FOR YOURSELF :)
Post #: 24
12/1/2011 16:04:27   
I am Primal
Member
 

 exactly reroute has to go none of this other moves. that will balance it. give tacts no reqs just remove it's reroute it should balance everything. give them plasma cannon for reroute like bunker which is an AMAZING move but it;s an energy version.
Post #: 25
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