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RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th)

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2/11/2012 4:00:29   
plebster
Member

stupe should be 25 sec, not 35
AQW  Post #: 226
2/11/2012 14:09:46   
Labyth
Banned


 well the new ice barrage seen to fit its description but i was wondering with the new super skill comming out what do we expect from those that find everything unfair i mean ice barrage made sence being nerfed caus ethe price or farming that u did was less tehn teh reward wich the reward was greater makeing the skill op in my eyes but for future referance before someone call soemthing op make sure the price of getting it equal the reward i expect soemone calling a new skill op so this is just future messege

leviathen creater T.^
Post #: 227
2/11/2012 14:16:04   
zanathos
Member

Wow. I've been gone a couple months, and my old Energy build is still successful against PvPers. Not bad. I still got to PvP more, to see what all these "Legendary" Powers are about.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 228
2/12/2012 17:30:43   
linklink0091
Member

@at ash i say 200% becuase for me moven at normal speed (auto attack being at 2 secs) is 100% speed meaning the fastest you can go without haste buffing effecting it in anyway or form, please forgive me for seeing things my way and how i do my math

as for these new super powers im eager for my days off from work to actuly farm for them :3

gore though i have tryed it...its just a more powerful form of claw from team ten to me...small impact damge, unusealy high cooldown of 60 secs and a 20 sec DoT in the 50s to 60 from my few times usen it

and off note, to hear thiers a new haste debuffer peaks my interests ^-^ weeee :3 i love meh haste type moves

the orders sage of haste ;3

edit :l i recently tested super atomic smash with tally as wel las the normal one...it seems....its a bit underpowered considering the token count mixed with teh fact a average (the power lvs of the other super power skills) is lower then the rest

i feel it needs a SMALL buff, i dont want you staff going over board >w>

as well the problem with the DoT/HoT coden is still alive and now with ice barage goen ppl fallen back on mental and other DoT/HoT abusen set ups that range from 500 HoT from a single tick with only one buffer to 250 DoT with a single buffer



and again i see a new abusive power riasen...actuly two..no three no abusive powers...i wont say them alowed..if a tester or staff member asks ill say my thoughts on what those powers are and why and explain in detail how they can be abused



< Message edited by linklink0091 -- 2/13/2012 20:40:03 >

_____________________________
AQW  Post #: 229
2/13/2012 20:53:30   
Tally
Member

Yep, super atomic smash could use a little buff. When I compared the normal atomic smash with Link's super power, there was only about 20 less damage. It could probably do some more damage, and use a smaller energy cost. Then it'll be equal for its price.

< Message edited by Tally -- 2/13/2012 20:55:09 >
DF MQ  Post #: 230
2/13/2012 21:21:56   
Sir Night
Member

Yeah. Super Atomic Smash is certainly better than regular Atomic Smash, but still not really up to par. The penalty on the opponent's energy, while good to have, will probably have little to no effect on the match. And otherwise it's still just a radioactive Crosscut with a higher cooldown time.

I agree that the best thing would probably be to have it deal higher damage. Or at least bring down the cooldown time.

< Message edited by Sir Night -- 2/13/2012 21:23:41 >
Post #: 231
2/13/2012 21:32:57   
linklink0091
Member

i for got to mention this to, increase fire lashes cooldown to 20-30 secs...if the haste debuffer is not to be changed....if the haste effects dont span to only ice and mental (which i belive was teh stafffs way to block or slow up the elemental types that "was" which only one is now op but i know of a few more to be abused soon)

really though staff ya still need to think about what to release as for powers...still you relasied yet more at least 2 Op or skills that can be easly abused
AQW  Post #: 232
2/14/2012 5:46:17   
Sparkedy
Member

Wait guys speaking of haste what does it do?!?
And another thing thanks for nerfing ice barrage i havent seen anyone using it since the nerf so thats epic.
Post #: 233
2/14/2012 13:37:43   
linklink0091
Member

@sparky i still use ice barage, iv been a fan of fast cooldown skills soo it stil has many uses for me

but haste is a aspect of movement meaning how fast one moves defult haste is at 100% haste buffers make you move quicker and reloads skills faster as well (this dont apply to running speed if that was teh case i would be ziping across the map with ease so no one could come close to use a skill x3 ) but in usen haste your forced to not take the path of high hitting moves (like DT doing 500 or overload doing 200 or so..i think its been awhile sense i used overload) but you can take the path of the healer and effect fighter or long range skilling

i prefer haste becuase i dislike moven at the same rate as everyone else....i could give a whole lot of reasons on why i think (opinen so dont take to heart) is the best type in game
AQW  Post #: 234
2/14/2012 19:10:39   
Antithesis
Member

Still waitin' on that Fire Lash fix, govna'.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 235
2/15/2012 8:42:13   
Zeuzt
Member

lemme just say something the nerfs are good thou I got weaker cause of it...........
Ice barrage was quit upon ye they go mental now.........
Fire lash is the new I hate you if I don't get you power................
Super atomic smash is a dissappointment.........shame I like instant dmg kills foes way faster........... but DoTs are good...
You know you should just fix server errors.........not debuff my warrior spirit!!!!!!!!!!!!
Post #: 236
2/15/2012 16:39:46   
Labyth
Banned


 hello everyone alright atomic smash need a very small buff it must be very small cause well if isn;t small atomic smash that i will be doing will be call op so i suggest atomic smash be fixed with a dot energy drain like chudling rash that would make the skill useful since atomic smash is meant to split mountains and u need power for that well what i am trying to say is do 2 things
1. increase atomic smash damage
2. give atomic smash effect of draining energy and decrease the cool down

now for fire lash i wish what a skill it says it what it does it says decrease the the mental and ice haste i use non of those it might be a bit complex to do so but the skill says it sticks to the word of the skill that way people won't see it as unfair or op

Leviathan creator T.^
Post #: 237
2/15/2012 17:52:32   
linklink0091
Member

lab why do you often repeat things other ppl say....
quote:

Leviathan creator
my rump .-. for the most part you just read what ppl said about ice barage "includen rumors" and posted about it way after it was problem please dont be prideful of that

and i say keep fire lash the same as for effect effects but just increase cooldown so it dosent loop and leaves at least 5 secs befor usen it again after effect fades...
AQW  Post #: 238
2/15/2012 17:57:40   
darklord841
Member

yes i finally managed to get my heal build up, i beat white beard with it full hp and it seems to be rlly op, i can make my pony to 450 damage cause of surge, i rlly suggest nerffing surge not plasma net, as it is very easy to get, and requires a litttle skill
DF  Post #: 239
2/15/2012 19:29:58   
Labyth
Banned


 linky this forum is for posting messages about balancing power.
ur post include messages for power that why they can be place here.
don't start per-judging me with ur silly point of views.
the only reason why ur last post was not ignored like most post is cause u mention the power fire lash and how it worked and its unfairness and why it should be nerfed.
also i use leviathan creator T.^ as my signature the only reason why i told people to post leviathan if they supported my idea was because i can relate to the word leviathan now do me favor and if u want to discuss our difference don;t do it here this if for balance powers not for ur flaming on others point of view ,ideas, or trade mark
also u want to flame on me look yourself 1st calling yourself the sage of haste everyone call u link not that the same goes for me people call me labyth ,and linky send me pm if u feel like talking about this not ur childish ignore bottom u press on people when u don;t agree with them i might have been the only person u done that to but that still pretty childish only cause people point of view don;t meet the same doesn;t mean they shouldn;t be heard after all even in real life everyone looks at thing different than others.
note i don;t support coping people build is quite pathetic and shouldn't be done after all the games AE makes are meant for u to have fun and be creative so i believe


i apologize to those that use this area as way to post unbalance powers this argument we been having here are probably an annoyance to u this is just an argument that we should have had somewhere else

fire lash is skill that should be nerfed to meet the skill description the skill clearly says it decrease mental and ice power haste it says nothing about the other elements the main reason why people go for it is cause people like the element the skill is and cause it decrease haste but cause of the extra thing the power those about lowering the haste of all skill people will go for it so i suggest u nerf the skill to meet its description it might be work but this way the skill will not cause future problems

leviathan creature ^.T

< Message edited by Labyth -- 2/16/2012 18:11:45 >
Post #: 240
2/15/2012 21:04:54   
linklink0091
Member

im sorry i didnt understand a the idea you was trying to get across...your wording didnt click with me >///<'

edit...still dont make sense lab your wording is a bit out thier even for me .-.

< Message edited by linklink0091 -- 2/16/2012 2:36:01 >
AQW  Post #: 241
2/19/2012 15:40:04   
CrownedPrince
Member

I keep on getting disconnected after using Gravity Warp.

_____________________________

Protege (HeroSmash)
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 242
2/19/2012 18:43:25   
blank452
Member

@darklord841
How does that work? Pony Charge converts all dmg received into health by a percentage of the initial dmg. Is Surge increasing that percentage above what it is supposted to be, or am I barking up the wrong tree? 450 hp total isn't hard if someone is using all their heavy direct dmg skills on you.
If it is what I think it is, then it needs to be fixed Also, I wonder if it is caused by the same bug that causes DoT/HoT skills to reach ludicrous(not the rapper) numbers. That bug is affecting more skills everytime I log in.

About the newest skills:
Fire Lash needs to be corrected. Yes, corrected, not fixed. Much like how Ice Barrage was not doing what it was meant to do, Fire Lash is reducing haste on all power types, not just Ice and Mental. As far as dmg/cooldown/energy cost goes, it seems ok. Not spammable, but a nice consistant attack. Due to it having a DoT component it does get caught by the afformentioned bug about DoT/HoT skills, but that is something that will hopefully get fixed in time.

Plasma Net is fine. BtH nerf and duration is good enough for the energy cost and cooldown, so for those who take that playstyle have a nice, consistant
(but not spammable) skill. The added DoT allows for dmg to be done as well, around 75-85 per tick, for 3 ticks which seems fair. Again, it is affected by the DoT/HoT bug, so with Surge I was pulling 250-290 per tick but that is not the fault of either Surge or Plasma Net, just something I have numbers on.

Surge is a tricky one. On one hand it is a nice direct heal, a handy added resistance to Energy type attacks and an Energy type buff. From using Pulsar Beam the buff is around 100% as I went from doing ~50 to ~100 dmg. Energy cost/cooldown are good for a predominately defensive skill.
Here is where it gets tricky. Yes, the DoT/HoT bug strikes again(you might realise by now I mention this a lot. It's 'cos it needs fixed post haste) but more importantly, the duration of the buff/resistance. The cooldown is 20sec, so to keep up with most direct healing skills, and that is fine; however I clock the duration of the Surge buff to ~19sec. This is pure vanilla Surge, so with a few haste buffing skills, Surge can keep it's buff on you indefinitely. (btw, why name the buff the same as the skill? It gets confusing sometimes =S)
With that in mind, I was pulling ~750 to ~1k heal every ~15 sec. This could be due to the DoT/HoT bug, but it's not obvious as the heal is close to double the vanilla heal.
I suggest reduce the Surge buff to 13sec. This will allow only those that go specifically with haste buffing skills to be able to achieve the buffed heal, but should only be implemented (if at all) after the DoT/HoT bug is fixed. The fact that it is messing up so many skills make it hard to figure out which skills genuinely need altering and which are simply acting OP due to the bug (Syphon Life; I'm lookin' at you, kid)

Will come back with more if I ever get the PvP score to check to for
balance issues with the othor(?) skills. Yor.

< Message edited by blank452 -- 2/19/2012 18:46:03 >
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 243
2/19/2012 20:09:55   
Antithesis
Member

^You have to hit every single Pulsar Beam and count on the fact your haste is NOT being debuffed. If your haste is touched even slightly then it is not a constant effect. I believe all the new Super Powers are balanced, just Fire Lash needs to have its effects fixed. Plasma Net is completely acceptable as well, and should not be touched as far as I am concerned.
I don't see what is confusing about naming the buff the same as the skill? If anything, it is less confusing. I kinda wish all powers were like that...


For the most part, I agree that your observations and mindset are logical and sound but I don't think Surge needs to be changed in any way, as it is essentially one of the few things making Energy a viable form of combat in PvP.


Cheers.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 244
2/20/2012 3:10:24   
darklord841
Member

i only use surge do do 450 with pony, which 20 percent of the time, and the rest is 350
DF  Post #: 245
2/20/2012 3:46:25   
blank452
Member

@Antithesis
It's only when talking about the skill and it's effect at the same time. I had to revise that part a few times as technically I never specified which "Surge" I was talking about, if not read in context. Forumites arn't exactly know for keep context so I tried to make it as obvious as possible.

About Surge and haste in general. Yeah, I concede on that one. Since it came out I've been using Pulsar Beam so I'm way to used to hitting it at the correct timing. I never came across anyone that would lower my haste during my testing time so that is my fault for not fully checking it out.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 246
2/20/2012 3:54:36   
linklink0091
Member

i see ppl noticed the 3 of the few skills i felt that can be abused (that i mention in earlyer posts)

fire lash is easly loopable....pulsar can barely lopp it but surely it can soo another haste buffer could keep it going for endeffintly

surge also easly loopable...pusar can loop it on its own...heck even a lesser haste buffer like psychois can loop it...

plmasa net can only be abused becuase of the HoT/DoT bug that is floating around easyly doing 280 per tick for 4 times with surge active, i like that plamse net cant be looped so in turn it has be come a rather fave of mine

but as anti stated simple haste debuffers or somen as broken as fire lash's haste debuffer can break the loops of those skills i mentioned


and blank...dark lord is talken abotu the damge he inflics from pony not the effect of pony..although yes surge dose increase the effects of the pony charage..but only slightly (adding 1-20 hp per hit, stil ldepending on how hard one hits the person with pony)

even though im not on that much anymore and my opinen isnt as valued becuase of my inactivty or other reasons (ppl hateing or just dont belive me) i hope you all understand that abusen powers often leads to changes in game...and the fact ppl often do abuse things in game is why im not as seen as i used to be

i really hope players learn to control/limit powers on thier own without haven the staff to change the powers them self so you all can be balanced

_____________________________
AQW  Post #: 247
2/20/2012 8:20:20   
blank452
Member

^ Ohhhh, that makes more sense then what I was thinking. Good to know.

My way of thinking is that HeroSmash gameplay comes from the customisation of skills. Through that there are many different playstyles such as a haste build, healing build, dodge build, pure dmg build etc, so to keep it fresh and fun, balance between all skills is needed to prevent 1 build or 1 skill from dominating everything else. However, balance can only come from skills and builds being shown to be unbalanced.
If another Ice Barrage came out, but no-one used it, then it wouldn't get balanced as there would be no knowledge of it. I can totally understand self-control when it comes to using unbalanced skills once discovered (hence why I don't use Pony Charge) or abusing obvious bugs that have been reported multiple times, but it is up to the players to find what is unbalanced, use it to show the staff that it is unbalanced (preferable with as many correct numbers and situations as possible) and then it is up to the staff to balance that thing, whether it be skills, builds, or an actual mechanic of the game.

This is my opinion when it comes to PvP balancing, so take it for what you will.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 248
2/20/2012 12:48:15   
HarmonicShadow
Member

I'm sure there's something for this old veteran retiree has to say about what's been happening lately.
But let me have the courtesy to say this for now..
Wow it's been a really long time..

Anyways, before we start nerfing and buffing a few things.
is it possible for us to reconsider the effort of the fact that they put the boundary to obtaining such skills with the score requirement,price,skill effects,cool down and worth value if the item in argument?
Not because I'm saying that the people's right to abuse it is right thought, just thinking, before we go place this blame on skill out of hand, this might be the only hope some non member with no sc to have a chance against us at all we're talking about here.. so please be considerate, I'm sure we don't want HS to be a desolate exclusive game with no one else now would we?
I would at least talk about considering 'bout making some skill stronger like common skills for fun like giant smash, lava storm, scorch, sun ray, electron pulse, immolate, shadow bomb, darkness and a few more skills you might think about making stronger, instead of just debuffing skills like there's no tomorrow, we should consider to make normal skills like what link wanted, stronger, so no one has to resort into using PvP skills like at the rate we are in now.

On the other hand, we can ignore the normal skills and watch HS turn into a spiral of madness that'll go out of hand sooner or later, game story line wise as well as setting aside the whole HS story and factor and the reason why the game itself existed: to be a hero or a villain and have fun with friends?

My thoughts & personal opinions(or onions, hehe! ^w^): I would rather go reconsider making the progress of HS more efficiently like making the secret lairs and hide out, and bring back the lake with pirates or something more progressive instead of getting focused too much in a single aspect of the game though..

_____________________________

The End is Nigh.
The End is Clear.
The End of all things Mortal.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 249
2/20/2012 18:03:59   
linklink0091
Member

@blank glad someoen agrees with power/build self control as thier was one player who over used the now nerfed skill ice barage which got ppl wondering in the first place i wont say his name, as he means well just isnt that bright :l
quote:

balance between all skills is needed to prevent 1 build or 1 skill from dominating everything else.
im ok with a build domenaiteing everything as long it dont use to many "stronger" powers becuase that build is proff that even lesser skills can over power even the stronger powers iv proven this befor and even got a skill non related to it nerfed :D i wobe my lv 15 build

thank ya zer, thier are many skills stuck at lv 15 that is still public and one of them states its to be rare (out of game) but it isnt soo why isnt it gone or made into lv 20, why is super intel buffing crit chance by 50% at lv 1, why is many of the high lv powers power descripions false in some way or from wither its not brought up to par like frozen core *so and so buffs by so much* no it still reads 90 when you put your mouse over it ut when you read it in shop or in bag it states less


these new powers fire lash leave it where it can haste debuff every thing and increase cooldown time so it can never be looped

surge just increase cooldown time to 30 secs and not 20..it could be still loped but it would be to hard to try and make it efftive to loop it maken it more of a timed buff or a simple heal

on the side try to figer out how to fix the DoT/HoT glich...i can help you all out where to look..its with in your coden...dumoose once stated he had changed teh DoTs in the game to match elemental defenses as well as other factors....thats when the over gross of Hots and DoTs poped up, iv said this once or twice in this kind of detail

right now i see a larage list of things to work with the powers...knock out the simple tasks first such as bring the older powers to par then move on to the super powers and adjust them...and while woring on all of those on the side work on HoT and DoT problems (i know iv repeated my self twice but a lot of ppl dont read or listen so they must be treated as a child :l )


and again zer is right fix pvp and the powers on the side...work on the storyline lol

< Message edited by linklink0091 -- 2/20/2012 18:05:59 >
AQW  Post #: 250
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