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RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th)

 
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1/28/2012 17:14:04   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


They usually don't overnerf. It's usually just a group of players who get upset about not being on top of the food chain anymore by abusing the most OPd skill in the game. When the ability to loop heals for Tech Mages in Epicduel was stopped, dozens of players cried out in protest that the class was overnerfed and useless while the best of the players were quiet and moved on to another build that didn't rely on spamming heal. You can't balance on the opinions of people, you must balance on numbers. There will always be those radicals that could have Ice Barrage do negative 100 damage and nerf the player using it and they might still cry OPd. There will always be those players who have an Ice Barrage that will kill the other guy and everyone present with no cooldown for the skill and they would claim it still needs buffed. A good majority of people are biased. Numbers can never be biased unless the person collecting them is and tampers with them.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 176
1/28/2012 19:14:59   
Qin
Member

Ice barrage needs overnerf, well not to the extent that will make the power useless but making things go fair. Not an opinion but simply a true fact. By means of balance, it doesn't just apply to numbers but the whole aspect of which the power has.

< Message edited by Qin -- 1/28/2012 19:17:11 >
Post #: 177
1/28/2012 20:31:05   
delta blitz
Member

Actually a half haste/defense /attack buff build works well against even a full ice build so no ice barrage can be counter quite effectivly. Even Qin can attest that despite him having that power I no longer am easy to defeat even with a legend build like his. (my build is meant to handle everyother build to the point of giving myself a fighting chance, though it suffers in dealing fast kills, it brings a OPed defense that I stumbled upon when testing). Also I barely use legend powers( I can access almost everyone of them, but I choose only two that are none damage dealing to place in my build*note not beleen's one or pony charge*.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 178
1/29/2012 15:05:50   
shashimir2
Member

i myself am an ice barrage user but to me its just not fair to use it in pvp. it gives no players an option to fight, it blasts threw toreado and absorbing ice takes up space in your power build and ya pony charge is resourcful but it doesnt last very long, neither does beleenified ice barrage is constant. theres no longer any pros in pvp due to the large amount off ice barrage users. its just pure lag and disconnections which is probably why most of the old pvp legends are quiting.

< Message edited by shashimir2 -- 1/29/2012 15:09:01 >
Post #: 179
1/29/2012 15:22:34   
Arachnid
Member

To sum up all of the Pvp balance threads thus far:
Lag is baaaaaaad.
Ice Barrage is baaaaaaad.

~Lady Zafara
AQW  Post #: 180
1/29/2012 20:18:09   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


To add to that, I would like to offer this ammendment:

Pony Charge is annoying.
DF  Post #: 181
1/29/2012 23:36:41   
linklink0091
Member

malet guy we are talken about one power...just one...

if they do nerf it..nerf the cooldown time leave the effects durion and how strong the effects are...

@qin every L.power has many effects...you want those nerfed to one effect to? and qin only poorly moraled players give that much pride and aragance i wont name players...but i think you know a few..and dont point at me...iv controled my pride a bit better now e.e

again mallet guy...they normal take nerfing a bit to far and nerf things that never needed touching in the first place...as well i was usen lv 15 skills and was still condisered by many of my peers to be the amounge the better pvpers and the onyl skills i calimed OP are super intel with that massive 50% crit boost and ice barage for the fact its cool down is 2 secs and once buffing is in place it turns to 1.2 secs added with that long range ppl who focus on running away and not dealing with me normaly die quickly

again i vote on nerfing the damge on it to the point its very minor or keep every thing the same and increase the cooldown to 6-8 secs, and is it me or am i the only one given details on how to nerf it and then being once again blow off for my idea on how to do somen

@shashimir2 wow so wrong..thiers tons of pros....swamp croc, tally, yumi, qin, white beard...and soo many more..they all was hard to fight with out ice barage...ice barage only makes tons of lag when thiers a chirsmas spirt in the fight near or with the ice barage user...and thier isnt a LARGE amount of ice barage users to begin with last i checked which was around 6-13 ppl at MOST out of the entire game.....

i gave my opinens basied on the order of the statements given

i see a lot of ppl complaine about problems about it..and just saying to nerf it...not how to nerf it...this is a recurring pattern which bothers me...you coem to this thread adress power problems and give details on how to sovle the problem...without saying just nerf it..cuase then the HS staff will go to far in most cases and nerf the wrong part of the skill or the under or over nerf the skill as a whole....so if you give incomplate info ...your going to get them to give you an incomplate nerf or skill...dont complain if you dont got the facts and numbers together :l

_____________________________

AQW  Post #: 182
1/30/2012 5:35:45   
rejaylob
Member

I just want to talk about PvP issues..

One is the game is LAG.. every time there is PvP, there is always lag.. it can make the game boring and some other people quit.

Two is the Power balancing.. This current week and the other previous weeks (January), Today's biggest problem is the power called "Ice Barrage" which is a Legendary Power and one of the hardest powers to get.. Ice Barrage is VERY OVER POWERED.. we can understand if it would be overpowered.. but it is beyond overpower.. Unlike "Yergenism" and "Shadow Slice" which is also the powers that is hard to get.. but these two powers are not as strong as ice barrage..which made other PvP'ers quit.. I know some of my friends quit HeroSmash just because of that power which is not nerfed for too long..."Very long time"


Hope you can make HeroSmash Better..

~Mr-Co0L
AQ Epic  Post #: 183
2/2/2012 7:13:02   
orc orc orc
Member

Hey guys! Its ORC! The "non-SC required" lvl 20 versions of the super powers should be buffed. The SC version of it seems unfair since it requires less points and the ability to absorb ALL the amount of damage. So
making the "non-SC required" lvl 20 versions of the super powers absorb MOST of the amount would be great instead of absorbing a portion. And also, Ice Barrage ruins PvP fun, its not spine chilling but annoying! Its effects should be balanced, thus making Ice Barrage's cooldown debuffed. A similar power called Disease should be balanced too, its cooldown should be slightly faster, as it is just tedious! They are just my suggestions, but I hope they get changed! Get Hero Smash's gameplay on par with other great games! Try to fix the flaws, and it'll be SUPER!

~ORC


< Message edited by orc orc orc -- 2/2/2012 7:44:43 >


_____________________________

Post #: 184
2/2/2012 8:40:45   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@above The non-SC items are easier to get because you have to pay actual money to get Smash Coins. I do not suggest any buff to any of the powers in any of the PvP shops.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 185
2/2/2012 18:18:41   
Legendary Ash
Member

You need to understand that the Legendary powers especially Ice Barrage are held up to different standards than regular powers. A nerf to the cool down of Ice Barrage would only mean a buff to either its damage or effect power in order to allocate those power points. That power is not even strong, only good for spam, a buff to its power would be something you don't want.
In fact its losing power because of its focus to haste boost, the global cool down permits skills to be used after 1.5 secs, all that extra haste goes to thin air.
You guys don't know what you are asking for, and it will be a regret if changes are implemented.
AQ  Post #: 186
2/3/2012 18:07:03   
linklink0091
Member

why ould i regtry it..iv tested it and used the ice barage every 4 secs befor....it still works bettter then most skills soo im cool with a longer cooldown and the fact they would inscrease the key effects that give any haste user the proper buffing....as the haste buffing gives 80% haste buffing...so if they made that effect higher i wouldnt need another haste buffer...and i could foucs more on def skills or attack skill....le ash i know what will happen if the increase cooldown with slightly added effects and or the same affects and i ish cool with it...so dont tell me,myself i dont know what im asken for and "regret" the changes...spam skills in any game is bad and noob....yes other players are vage and just say nerf it becuase they dont know what to nerf about it or other things and dont like the fact so much power was given through one skill let alone alowing you to use say pandra's heal every 35 secs with the ice bareage buff
AQW  Post #: 187
2/3/2012 22:43:47   
darklord841
Member

@above

u seem to forget cough "stun lock" cough, and also cough "pony charge infinite heal" cough and dont forget cough "fashion sense constant hot" cough

i am thinkin of using that build when i get sc

Hope its not too op
DF  Post #: 188
2/4/2012 8:01:27   
linklink0091
Member

a cough cough you cant stunlock cough cough and cough cough pony only lasts 4 secs....and thier a cap on how much one can rasie hast iv repeated that numorus times...pony is 24 sec recharge with haste raised to the cap which is 100% of normal haste that comes to only 12 sec cooldown...meaning pony dont give "infinite heal"...and fashion sense well...cant be looped to the point it never loses HoT but is rather close only 1 or 2 secs of down time between HoT after the first HoT fades...and darklord...anything with ice barage can be made OP to any non ice barage user unles you fight tally one on one then its a normal match to her :P

but really though ice barage its self isnt the probem granted cooldown could be increased to 6-8 sec...ill repeate it again what gives it its real power is the effects which was made for "real" haste type users, those ppl who do nothen but def to the point they never take damge (i wont say names) or those ppl who use the damge buffing effects to the point they have no def (i still wont say names) arent true haste users and in my opinen use the skill poorly

and due note a pet peeve of mine is that when you cant think of somen with out actuly thinking through to the point thiers lil to no holes in the idea (aside from grammer, i can talerate that to a point) again i wont say names to those who poked that peeve :l
AQW  Post #: 189
2/4/2012 17:43:01   
Labyth
Banned


Alright, there is a power which is quite OP. I been in pvp a lot lately and all I have seen in power defense, 3v3, and royal are Ice barrage users using the same build. Let me give you a couple of examples of these OP builds. Basically they all surround a skill that quite strangely, they all have. People say that they have the right to use that skill since well, they worked so hard to get it. At first I thought that was true, that if you work hard for something you should use it without a care in the world. Then I keep thinking; wait a second 3v3 is harder, royal is harder, but pd isn't that hard.
To complete 3v3 you must work as team. If your team doesn't cooperate (which is most of the time) it’s likely you will lose ‘cause after all you usually don’t know the people on your team, as well as healing in 3v3 causes you to lose points, making it especially harder. In royale, it’s every man for themselves. You mess up one time and you could lose your points and your chance of being ahead. It can be quite hard to win when you know everyone is against each other. Again I thought, pd isn't hard it’s just time-consuming. I mean let’s say that every match you do in pd is about 10 minutes or so, in the end all you have to do is wait in a circle and survive. Here is a build: focus, healing touch, molecular reconstruction, pulsar beam, and warrior spirit. Use it and you can stay in that circle for while, all you do is wait there with not much of a challenge. The skill itself surpasses Yergenism which is the royal veteran skill and Shadow slice which is the 3v3 veteran skill-they don't stand a chance in a 1v1 fight against Ice barrage. Why? Let’s see the facts: Ice barrage damage plus Yergenism increase which is 10% more, even if you do 40% more on yourself you cannot compete with Ice barrage’s speed and damage. Now let’s look at the other skill Shadow slice-its decrease does not cover the haste buff or the chance of strike making it pointless since all you have to do is wait it out. The skill itself surpasses the other skills. Now let’s look at how our fellow players use this OP power.
Well I’ve been fighting many pvpers and talked with many. Those who have the skill tend to be protective of it and hope that it doesn’t get nerfed, since they have come to rely on it. This skill makes many pvpers rely on it because of the greatness it provides. So what I did is study how our fellow players use this skill-I watched their builds(combos and ways they use certain skills, meaning their style) closely. I’m going to use popular players that you guys might know and say their builds. It probably might be wrong to say other people’s powers but to prove my point, I will use names and builds and you will all see why they have gotten to where they are.

White Beard: Ice barrage, …of ice, pony charge, fashion sense, dum luck
xxFbixx: Ice barrage, fashion sense, pandora grace, pony charge, eye boil
The Dream: Ice barrage, fashion sense, pony charge, bash, death touch
Qin: Ice barrage, fashion sense, pony charge, stupefacio, …of ice
Qaaii uses one of these same builds.
Swagg11 just changes the …of ice for shadow slice
Hiro uses shadow slice as well
Jaggath putih uses taser, unless I mixed that one up.
And some people use toreado.
But basically, they all use Ice barrage and the same combo of pony charge and fashion sense, because that combo pretty much heals you while Ice barrage’s buff helps your fashion sense to heal you, and pony charge to stop people from killing you. There are more that that but some cross my mind, and the thing about Ice barrage is that it doesn’t give others the opportunity to have fun. For example, some of the people on the leaderboard hang around Jemini server since most of the new players go there, and they take advantage of those that are there to pvp for fun and take the fun away. So my suggestion is to not remove Ice barrage but to nerf it. Some of the people that agree with me will post their thought after mine, and some will agree with it while others might not but this is how I propose they fix it:
4 ways
-Cut the damage in half and haste in half and remove the debuff
-Remove damage and just leave the buff and debuff (since that’s what would make it equal to the other 2 veterans power)
-Take the buff away and just leave the debuff and damage
-Increase cooldown time and energy cost by 2.5x the normal (that would make it more manageable and fair)
All those that agree with me will post the word Leviathan after this post meaning that they will refer to my post on why Ice barrage should be nerfed.

I would also would like to say that most people who tend to refer to other skills saying those should also be nerfed forget the fact that the reason they become overpowered is that the build those powers are in includes Ice barrage. Ex: some say pony charge or stun need nerfing but in the end the reason is because of Ice barrage’s haste buff.
Even some people who have Ice barrage agree with me.

Okay i been inform on something quite particular. the information receive was ice barrage haste was never included in the skill preview meaning ice barrage haste isn't meant to be their meaning if it isn't meant to be their it should be remove prove of fake buff that shouldn't be their

< Message edited by Labyth -- 2/4/2012 23:05:43 >
Post #: 190
2/4/2012 17:57:21   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


Well, I think I'll show my support, even though I find Pony Charge to be annoying even without Ice Barrage.

Leviathan.
DF  Post #: 191
2/4/2012 18:52:29   
darklord841
Member

link

thats why u combine the skills stupe and pony and fashion sense, strangely haste does not work like haste in aqw
also u can add pandora/gravity warp/shadow slice/toreado
DF  Post #: 192
2/4/2012 20:19:41   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


Darklord, Fashion Sense IS a mana regeneration skill, along with its healing ability.
DF  Post #: 193
2/4/2012 22:10:02   
Qaaii
Member
 

I am an Ice Barrage user.
http://herosmash.artix.com/hs-character.asp?id=QAAII
I agree wiv Labyth.

Leavithen
Post #: 194
2/5/2012 0:21:10   
darklord841
Member

fashion sense regens ur mana rlly wth, that op, and by how much, also its 25 secs cooldown right???
DF  Post #: 195
2/5/2012 6:15:44   
blank452
Member

As someone who has only ever been hit by Ice Barrage, I would like to say that in the vast majority of cases, the total dmg done by an IB users compared to a non-IB users is very close to double. The defence debuff coupled with the haste buff allows for ~120 dmg from both IB and auto-attack. Due to both having a 2 sec cooldown (as standard, not with the haste buff) that is a perpetual ~120 dps. I little OP if you don't mind me saying. Add in the other 4 skills and I think we all know where that leads to.

I'm keen to agree with the 2nd nerf Labyth mentioned. Removing the dmg component of IB will bring the total dmg output of the user of IB back to a "normal" level, as well as the speed at which is that dmg can be achieved. Combine that with changing the buff/debuff to last for 3 secs will allow the skill to still have a nasty buff/debuff, yet can remain constant if the user keeps up the renewal of it.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
-Hanaar

Leviathan

< Message edited by blank452 -- 2/5/2012 6:16:51 >
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 196
2/5/2012 9:46:23   
citrinas
Member

Drakkoniss, u mad bro?

< Message edited by Citrinas -- 2/5/2012 14:22:46 >


_____________________________

HS
AQW  Post #: 197
2/5/2012 10:46:29   
Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!


It has the same ammount of cooldown as Warrior Spirit, and gives arround the same ammount of energy, Darklord.

You make me despise you more and more, Importuneity. You sicken me with the ammount of lack of care for how this game progresses, and how balanced it is, especially considering the fact that many players have already quit because of that, and balancing the game is the only likely path it has to recovery. You are a disgrace to the entire PvP community, and no more deserve your spot at the top of the leaderboards than you deserve to be the president of the United States. You have earned my undying hatred and contempt, you acursed excuse for a human being. If you do not intend to actually post anything that could help the game in the matter of PvP, leave this thread and never return, because the way you post now is tainted with arrogance and pride in your battle strategy and supposed deservance of the use of the build I would use as an example of everything that is wrong in PvP as a whole. You yourself are the same way: stuck up, and refusing to admit that the skills you are exploiting need to be fixed.

The power and lack of need for skill that some powers and builds have allowed for have corrupted the minds of the most active and dedicated PvPers. Because of the way they act, fewer and fewer players actually PvP. God help us.
DF  Post #: 198
2/5/2012 13:50:45   
Tally
Member

Dumoose, please read what we're trying to tell you, and reconsider your decision on this for the sake of the Herosmash community...
Leviathan
DF MQ  Post #: 199
2/5/2012 14:21:30   
citrinas
Member

I was joking. -.- I already said that it's all true what Antithesis said.
AQW  Post #: 200
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