RE: =HS= Power Balancing for PvP (updated Feb 9th)


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2/5/2012 14:39:39

Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!

I would like to make it known that Citrinas/Importuneity have reconciled, and I normally wouldn't have said anything of the sort, but was in a rather bitter mood at the time for other reasons.

DF	Post #: 201

2/5/2012 23:28:37

Antithesis
Member

Dumoose, aren't you responsible for game balance?

Here, take a look at the all time top.
Every single one of them uses some combination with Pandora's Grace, Fashion Sense, Ice Barrage, and Pony Charge.
Inference: That move combination is better than all others.
Implication: It needs to be fixed somehow.

PROTIP:
Take your head out of whatever dirty place it is in.
Quit acting oblivious.
Fix PvP.
Quit ignoring the forumites, they know what they're talking about.
Do your job.
???
PROFIT

It's not that difficult.

I'm pretty sure it's your responsibility to balance this.
Otherwise I strongly suggest that AE chooses somebody else to be in charge of PvP and Balance issues because you clearly lack the discipline to do so.
Accept more testers if you really can't handle this obvious, serious, yet ridiculous balance issue.

Anyone who doesn't think that move combination is overpowered clearly uses the set. Cap it out at one or two legendaries equipped at a time and all balance problems should be fixed. Makes it easy; you don't even have to change the stats.

Edit: Rereading that, I decided it looks a bit harsh and I apologize if it comes across that way.
I'm just fed up with the neglect. Somebody upstairs needs to do something.

< Message edited by Antithesis -- 2/5/2012 23:46:06 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 202

2/6/2012 5:19:11

darklord841
Member

anti dont forget the stun, i calculated it and its an never ending cycle of defence

DF	Post #: 203

2/6/2012 5:43:24

linklink0091
Member

lab you freaken ********** (the amount of *** dont count for anyword..just somen mean and foul in genrule) YOU BROKE SMASHDOME FREAKEN LAW dont share or post any one persons build...becuase ppl will copy it and what not and say its thier build when its actuly no this is one of the reason why you got a no from me befor for the voteing procise..and you are saying the exact things i was about ice barageabout it being nerfed

yes the haste buff in that skill is the problem alowing other skilsl to be used 80% faster with just ice barage...if you added say war spirt skills would relod 100% faster meaning "pony" would reload at 12 secs and not 24 secs...

i love haste its one of my fave types of moves in anygame...but this is to far..to much power of haste in one move that is easly looped , super speed is 100 haste buffer but only lasts 3 secs or so and reload is like 15 or 20 secs i dont recal lof the top of my head...dumoose and testers..get your head out of your rumps and step up and balance powers...becuase you still have that HoT/DoT bug abuse going on as well two OP skills in game and this game can go further then anygame thats already relased...i mean larage profit just becuase of the creativty for builds and that adds up to beast pvp...but when ppl use simulr builds tend to use one or more mainstreem skills...you got to understand that means its normaly way stronger then other types or skills in genrule...these super nad L.powers area mockery to the balance...i personly want those powers removed and any SC for them refunded...meaning drag the powers out of the hands of the players if your not going to balance powers that are clearly stronger in just about every way to thier somewhat counterparts..

if you agree go with the order...we strive for that balancewe strive for greatness with even the newbiest of skills and we have

quote:

-Remove damage and just leave the buff and debuff (since that’s what would make it equal to the other 2 veterans power)
-Take the buff away and just leave the debuff and damage
-Increase cooldown time and energy cost by 2.5x the normal (that would make it more manageable and fair)

i find those to be somewhat reasonable but two out of those three are over nerfing...

look pvp staff of HS the players are getting mad...when they get mad they go play other games...when they play other games...you lose profit....when you lose profit..you all cant buy those things that make you all "happy"

im also getting peeved at the fact you all are starting to "copy" what iv been saying for ages since iv gotten the power my self...and imp i agree with draknooisis get out you are a mockery of what pvp should stand for

and go ahead ban me for flamen ragen or w/e crap...im still going to be here im stil going to have followers who agree with me in at least one way or form and ill always have ways to get my thoughts across...i wont stand for a game with soo much potional to be stomped on by ignorence and "hey lets make this power becuase it cool and strong" or my personal fave of what plamsa charge said ( a pvp tester) "we are upgraded taser to super powers becuase the old taser was not pvp worthy and i love taser alot and i thought it was cool to upgrade it"....i raged hard when he told me that personaly...i told him taser is a pawsome skill a lil slow but freaken fair for how much that lowers haste and how long....YOU HS STAFF COHSE YOUR PVP TESTER HORABLY YOU DID NOT CHOSE THEM BASED ON THIER KNOWLEG OF POWERS (plasma charage did not evne know where war spirt was or what it even did) OR HOW UNBAISED THEY WAS ABOUT POWERS...I MY SELF AND LOADS OF OTHER PPL NEVER GIVE "yes that power is better then this power" or "here ill tell you a great build" FREAKEN NO WE TELL THEM LEARN THE BASICS ... WE EVEN SHOW THEM MANY OF THE BASICS...i knwo i prolly wouldnt be a good tester as for addidtude becuase i take soo much pride in herosmash pvp seeing as me and other pvp founders made that smashdome law to make pvp forever fair for players and those smarter players who continue to make powerful builds out of "newb" skills you HS pvp staff clearly dont get in game to learn the behavors of your players and how they pvp....if you got an undercover account in thier..your doing a freaken horable job at interptering ppls morals for pvp

my spelling sucks, i take my pvp morals to far, i gloat a bit more then others those are my flaws staff...do you want to get past them and actuly look at me and other players of HS who are actuly pvp pros and get them to be the real testers of pvp....i mean even doodle asked me to do more reserch then what i already did on powers and give her my opinens if done simuler things with other testers...im just apawled at how you pick them...i have soo many more things to hammer you all on but im going to stop

i think the other players would agree with me to some point or another

and if you agreee about my feelings about those L.powers and super powers and removen them to permently balalencen pvp til they add some other power that redickuless in some way or form agree with the order

if you have my some or most of my feelings towards on how they are manganen pvp and powers go green for your text

_____________________________

AQW	Post #: 204

2/6/2012 12:17:13

Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!

@Anti: Yeah, it did seem slightly rude... Same thing happened to me when I was posting on the Game Feedback thread. I just wish I could actually meet Dumoose/PvP with him. -.- I still haven't met a single dev. :/

Linklink, everyone who fights them knows they use some sort of combination along those lines, anyway, even if they didn't know the fifth power. This is off enough importance to ignore stupid formal codes, and try to help get things done. I don't care if any of them are offended he posted their builds, and I support him on that matter.

I agree. I personally have had quite good fun with haste, even with the lagginess and glitching of skills when haste is increased, along with the "power sticking" problem, but yes, that is far too much.

Aye... the fact that this game has so much potential is why it irks me so much, other than being beaten by those with such builds, which is not often because I haven't been PvPing constantly. *coughlonglivetheordercough*

I reeeally don't think you should be banned for that... If so, so should I, even with my long record of keeping my cool and giving constructive criticism. Also, Anti might fall under the list of players that would be, too, though he's done it to a far less significant degree, so I doubt it.

To be fair, Taser was quite underpowered beforehand, and I had regreted buying it, which is sad, because it was/is a SC power...

Hmm... Personally, I think you would make a very good tester, Link. Anti probably would too, but I am unsure he'd want to spend so much time away from the community. Testing DOES require alot of time...
This reminds me that Mods are only chosen if they are both mature and over 18, to make sure they will judge well. There may be certain exceptions on the age limit (I'm not sure), but still. If there are any, it would be because the staff hand picked that person for the job because they knew they were mature enough. On the other side of the arguement, though, there aren't too many players to chose from, let alone those who'd want to be tester. :/

Well, Link, I don't actually think your pride would interfere that much, comparable to the benefits of having someone such as you unbiasedly judge the merit of skills, and offer sollutions for how to make them not overly unfair in PvP, if you can remember that to a certain degree some builds should be more powerul than others, because it takes inovation to come up with them, but considering who you are, I very much doubt that will be too much of a problem.

Personally, I think there should be mods that specialize in PvP and report to the staff how skills are being reported, but that's just me. Link and Anti would both be good choices for such possitions, but I believe Link is younger than the age limit, and I'm not sure what age Anti is. I could name others for such a possition, but they'd be my top to candidates.

Yeeeah... Doodle's nice. Takes things too far sometimes, but I like her. *shrugs*

I don't agree that ALL of the legendary powers should be removed, though I do think that it might be a good idea to do so with Pony Charge and Ice Barrage, and replace them with something else.

You are lucky I am not so prideful as to stay using red. -.- (lol) Yes, this is a very dark green. I believe it is the same one Linklink is using.

< Message edited by Drakkoniss -- 2/6/2012 12:18:36 >

DF	Post #: 205

2/6/2012 16:46:30

Labyth
Banned

link just to defend myself in this post remember what builds are we talking about i am not saying anyone builds we all know i placing the point i said as plain as day everything if i said someone build that really matter in the end just fight any of them to receive the info on their build example dumoose build
ice barrage, fashion sense, pony charge, of ice and then he just substitute something for the last skill
basically that not a build just something everyone does u can flame or rage me when i am really saying a build but when i am just stating something that even a lvl1 player can realize that they all use the same build standard just sub stuff in then that not build like said builds are shared given created for the purpose of giving results but a build that all u do is sub stuff in is just 1 build not builds like me subbing 5th skill for dumoose build let see i want to stun i put stun move that all that not builds he is making is just 1 build that can adapt to different standards
also as most of u seen me in pvp since i was low lvl i been good no one has help me pvp like many of u and their are no rules in pvp u guys have rules of conduct and how u all respect other but for me rules and basic were never said to me so i am free to do as i please as long as i follow the rule of AE oh yeah also linky don;t take this like insult but u know me better then most and i hold my own code of how and that anything that ruins pvp and fun for others should be fixed so if me telling people builds fixes the problem i will do it cause now people will have to look a the post even if is just curious people have u not seen people are placing leviathen those who agree with me at the of the post

leviathen

< Message edited by Labyth -- 2/6/2012 20:36:13 >

Post #: 206

2/6/2012 18:52:28

delta blitz
Member

Drakkoniss got mad......O.0 Hero Smash pvp just got serious... Personally my build is made to defend against everything i encounter in pvp and pve (as I made an all around build so I wouldn't have to change skillsets) and I must say that ice barrage still gives me problems despite me having a more than overpowering defense. So as said before ice barrage needs a slight nerf and a few of the legend powers need a small buff x/

leviathan

AQW

Epic

Post #: 207

2/8/2012 13:39:51

linklink0091
Member

hey hey...im of age hun, i ish 20 :l and i can provide proof of my age...i know for a fact thiers at least 1 tester that isnt 18....which bothers me a lot that HS staff never asked for proof of age...

@lab the rules of smashdome for respect honor and fair play cant be told to every player of HS...this is why i one of the founders of the order try to get my clan to one assist the lessers and to share that rule, and looken back your lv back then gave you and advantage not only that you was a DoTer/ long range player back then and in most cases players chase after only those who stand still to make sure they get al lthe damge in....but even still you didnt know to much and made builds based on skills you liked in aqw...to be honest i think you was better at lv 13-16 then you are now hun...and no telling ppl to make "insert build" stumps thier creativty in most cases lessen my and others chances of seeing that player going far in the pvp ranks (not that cheap bleep leaderbarod) and you telling ppl these builds ruins pvp anyway, in the way i stated..ruinen the creativy of the minds of pvpers who are easly swayed

@delta...the L.powers dont need nerfed they are fine the way they are, even so they still poluted the minds of less exped players as they will shoot staight for those powers and not learn the basics of the real powers of HS

quote:

and if you agreee about my feelings about those L.powers and super powers and removen them to permently balalencen pvp til they add some other power that redickuless in some way or form agree with the order

if you have my some or most of my feelings towards on how they are manganen pvp and powers go green for your text

ill repeat that from my previs post a few times

pride for true balance of pvp, pride for real sportmanship for those who arent as strong, pride for honesty to the point its sharp as elfs blade

AQW	Post #: 208

2/8/2012 16:22:08

Labyth
Banned

lol me using range skills lol i find it funny but i am pretty sure the only range skill i own was pulsar how about u calm down the issue at hand is ice barrage we get it fixed and then we start arguing between each other after all this ifs for getting power balance not to go at each other throat for what we each believe in after all the focus at hand is ice barrage not pvp code maybe they will make a thread about that if they haven;t yet

Post #: 209

2/8/2012 16:54:56

Antithesis
Member

If you two are going to argue, please take it to private messages...
We don't need to smear this thread with petty arguments.
~
The problem we should be dealing with is stacked legendary powers. Let's just deal with the game issues for the time being.

Cheers.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 210

2/9/2012 17:45:32

Legendary Ash
Member

With the updates of Feb 9th rolled in, I must say Dumoose deserves a pat on the back for removing the haste buff rather than increasing the cool down of Ice Barrage.
However, since the removal of the effect wasn't compensated we wonder if the skill is really more powerful than it should be. Note that the increase from 20% extra damage to 30% damage is due to the limited buff to only Ice atks now.

For Pony Charge, its seems odd that the explanation stated to have players time the usage of the power instead of hastening it, that response is rather inadequate as it doesn't really account for the debuff unless the skill is slightly more powerful than supposed.

AQ	Post #: 211

2/9/2012 17:56:42

Sir Night
Member

Yesssss! Finally!

Post #: 212

2/9/2012 17:59:26

Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!

Personally, I am quite satisfied with ALL of the different changes to the powers, even with "... of the Physical" being nerfed. It's one that isn't too bad, and could prevent potential later abuse.

I like the fact that there's now actual incentive to grind to a higher PvP score, now, too, even if you're not trying for legendary powers on the side.

DF	Post #: 213

2/9/2012 21:01:42

delta blitz
Member

and still my overpowering def build works fine x3, I almost feel sorry for those who relied on legendary powers too much.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 214

2/10/2012 3:47:18

blank452
Member

So far, so good. Havn't come across any prolific IB users since the change so can't say how I feel about the move, but it's definitely gonna be better then what it was. I was wanting Pony Charge to have a cooldown of 34sec, so it matches that of Stupefacio as they kinda have the same effect on the battlefield to an extent, but 30sec certainly works.

All I need to do now if PvP 'till the cow come home to test out Sarin Grenade!

AQW

Post #: 215

2/10/2012 6:31:17

Qin
Member

FINALLY I LOVE YOU!

Post #: 216

2/10/2012 12:35:11

citrinas
Member

We have fire, electricity, mental and radiant heals, why can't we have ice heals? Also fire can get buffed at 120%, mental 100% and ice only 45%. Make it fair.

_____________________________

AQW	Post #: 217

2/10/2012 14:03:56

linklink0091
Member

imp frozen core buffs at around 100% or more...that is a descrition problem they have yet fix...and if ya actuly do some math instead of trusting the descrtpions you can tell how much somen buffs what :l

as for the nerfing i havent played becuase iv been busy with work soo i cant really give a fair opinen about the nerfs and buffs...but as for the buffs go they seem peachy to me as for ... of melee being nerfed drakk rasies a point it was abused to the point no one could do "damge" along with other def skills....and i think you could have just killed the haste buff on ice barage and increased the "dieased" typed buffing to as you say 30%

but untill i get a day off i vill not comment about the new powers or nerfins and buffings till i actuly test them my self to give a fair answer :l

edit seems i only had time to test the nerfings and they for once ._. look fair though i belive ice barage wont live up to the other L.powers to the point it will be seeked out by many or a "few" ppl...even still i like it..it makes for a wonderful ice skill to have when usen pure ice builds....pitty ice barage could have stayed the same if ppl didnt abuse it so much x3 ill miss you 200% haste buff :l back to moven at 180% :D

< Message edited by linklink0091 -- 2/10/2012 14:37:11 >

AQW	Post #: 218

2/10/2012 17:48:30

Legendary Ash
Member

linklink: First you need to understand that haste doesn't go past 100%, this modifier affects the cool down of a skill as a mitigator.
Take a power's cool down and multiply by the value produced by subtracting haste % from 100%, for example 30 sec x 0.7(30% haste) will bring the cool down to 21 sec.

Ice Barrage was due for a nerf since it was more powerful than intended and this so called abue only put the spotlight on it.
From these waves of revisions, we are forced to conclude that the creators and balancers for these powers don't look at the standards.
This is a very disturbing conclusion as all powers deserve to be checked for balance instead of rushing to produce more variety.

AQ	Post #: 219

2/10/2012 18:45:11

Antithesis
Member

It's funny how badly I dominate those people who spammed ice barrage now that it's balanced.

That's what you get for getting an ego, you noobs. e_e

AQW

Epic

Post #: 220

2/10/2012 19:20:35

orc orc orc
Member

Wow! Ice Barrage got nerfed! It makes it easier to deal with Ice Barrage users.... Things are getting easier now!...
I HOPE!

~orc orc orc

< Message edited by orc orc orc -- 2/10/2012 19:25:20 >

_____________________________

Post #: 221

2/10/2012 20:52:11

xXx_Shadow Dio_xXx
Member

The update on balancing PvP is great and all, but I do have one complaint, why should of the physical (or Negating Physical as we know it now loses it's ability to recover energy while all the other Of the... stays the same? This makes the skill almost useless, considering it only lasts 8 seconds.

While I'm okay with it losing it's ability to absorb damage completely, I don't like the fact that you had to take away it's energy recovery, because there are only a few powers with that ability, Warrior Spirit is good, but if you don't have enough energy to use it, you're doomed. and while Overwhelming Power costs no energy, it takes a long time to reload, it could leave you open to attacks.

And Regular Focus is garbage compared to Uncanny Focus, but if you don't have SCs, you can't get it.

I personally think it would better if the Of the Physical should restore energy like before the nerf happened, But minimize the damage of physical abilities like it does now. Otherwise all should stick with what they got.

~Scrooge

Post #: 222

2/10/2012 21:53:25

Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!

Has anyone noticed Fire Lash seems to reduce ALL haste, and not just mental and ice? This is very annoying, and I have to run arround avoiding melee hits and waiting for ages for Fashion Sense to be ready OVER AND OVER AGAIN in order to be able to actually win against someone that has it. This is very annoying, and the reduction in haste is so vast that both WS and Pulsar Power seem to not effect it at all. I have no doubt it would devestate in other match types than Duel, and I am guessing many people haven't gotten it because of the high token cost, because the actual description doesn't make it out to be so OP, as it shouldn't be in the first place.

I can't post this on the bugs forum, because I don't know all my system's information, but this has happened multiple times to me. By that, I mean whenever I fight the same person who has it.

DF	Post #: 223

2/10/2012 22:03:11

Antithesis
Member

Drak: Done and done.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 224

2/10/2012 22:05:38

Drakkoniss
Creative!
Constructive!

WOOT!!! /cheer

Thank ye, my good man.

DF	Post #: 225

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