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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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2/27/2012 13:48:40   
Remorse
Member

^Also guns and auxes will be freed up,

Meaning you can buy them,collect them, win then and be able to ACTULY USE THEM! without worring about having to enahce them.
Therefore sales in guns and auxes should go up!
Epic  Post #: 651
2/27/2012 13:51:31   
Stabilis
Member

A Cyber Hunter's suggestion towards repairing Cyber Hunters

i) Steps

►Remove Plasma Armour

►Remove Shadow Arts

►Remove Malfunction

►Remove Cheap Shot

►Add Plasma Aura

►Add Cyber Arts

►Add Blue Ruin

►Add Energy Shield

ii) Descriptions

▼Plasma Aura▼

Anytime a user of Plasma Aura is struck by a Primary weapon, the attacker is dealt bonus shock damage.

Level 1: Attacker takes 1% of their total health in damage.
Level 2: Attacker takes 2% of their total health in damage.
Level 3: Attacker takes 3% of their total health in damage.
Level 4: Attacker takes 4% of their total health in damage.
Level 5: Attacker takes 5% of their total health in damage.
Level 6: Attacker takes 6% of their total health in damage.
Level 7: Attacker takes 7% of their total health in damage.
Level 8: Attacker takes 8% of their total health in damage.
Level 9: Attacker takes 9% of their total health in damage.
Level 10: Attacker takes 10% of their total health in damage.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: replaces Plasma Armour
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Cyber Arts▼

Passively increases the Primary hit rate and resistance to poison.

Level 1: 1% increase to Primary hit rate and 10% resistance to poison
Level 1: 2% increase to Primary hit rate and 15% resistance to poison
Level 1: 3% increase to Primary hit rate and 20% resistance to poison
Level 1: 4% increase to Primary hit rate and 25% resistance to poison
Level 1: 5% increase to Primary hit rate and 30% resistance to poison
Level 1: 6% increase to Primary hit rate and 35% resistance to poison
Level 1: 7% increase to Primary hit rate and 40% resistance to poison
Level 1: 8% increase to Primary hit rate and 44% resistance to poison
Level 1: 9% increase to Primary hit rate and 47% resistance to poison
Level 1: 10% increase to Primary hit rate and 50% resistance to poison.

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: 24 Technology (+2 per skill level) (MAX 42 Technology)
Level Required: replaces Shadow Arts
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 0

▼Blue Ruin▼

Assail an enemy with 2 devastating strikes with the held primary weapon. User is charged with blue plasma.

Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Damage Progressions:

Level 1: 30% more damage
Level 2: 35% more damage
Level 3: 40% more damage
Level 4: 45% more damage
Level 5: 50% more damage
Level 6: 55% more damage
Level 7: 60% more damage
Level 8: 65% more damage
Level 9: 70% more damage
Level 10: 75% more damage

Weapon Required: Wrist blades or Sword
Stat Required: 26 Support (+1 per skill level)
Level Required: replaces Cheap Shot
Improves With: Strength
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Energy Shield replaces Malfunction... Energy Shield can cost more energy as CH is effective at restoring energy.

.
.
.

Possible edit to Static Charge:

Static Charge restores energy even when blocked. Static Charge's percentages are only based on the current Primary weapon. Reductions to energy gained may be needed. Static Charge is restoring much too much energy for Strength users, and too little for any other user type. This is most absolutely inappropriate.

Questions? I will try to answer them. Comments? Feedback is appreciated.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/27/2012 17:47:45 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 652
2/27/2012 17:54:34   
Stabilis
Member

I don't mean to double post (delete as you see fit), but I have just recently updated and completed the ^ above post and just wanted to announce the referral again.

I am against CH armour skills, the lucky Shadow Arts skill, and for a more vulnerable but self-dependent class.
AQ Epic  Post #: 653
2/27/2012 18:30:19   
Hun Kingq
Member

Beta weapons do need requirements today a Tech mage with all Beta weapons was able to have high health high energy and very high tech.

To describe how useless intimidation is I lost to a Level 31 Blood Mage in 2vs2, he just had a sword and a pistol, low strength and just with regular strikes he was getting 20 damage and before intimidation he got 9 and 9 damage with the pistol so I put level 1 intimidation of him knocking his strength down even lower but instead of less pistol damage it went up too 15 and 16 critical damage and I have high tech not a single time he shot me with the pistol it did not deflect. When I loose fair and square I don't mind but when the computer program within the game helps a player get and easy victory to me that is CHEATING, for the player.

So either improve Intimidation or replace it because there is absolutely no kind of balance between the debuff skills.
Epic  Post #: 654
2/27/2012 19:55:09   
goldslayer1
Member

@depressed
that sounds creative with aura
but i do find it maybe being abused too much.
for example
max aura, max static, along with a very good heal.

if i maintained a constant heal loop. if u keep attacking me, it would eventually be UR undoing.
as all i do is heal loop, while ur still taking damage and wasting turns and energy on attacking me.

basically it would be like a damage deflection tank. the more u deal on me, the more u get dealt back on the same turn.
which could also force VERY long battles, and create another super Op build if such thing isn't tested.
AQW Epic  Post #: 655
2/27/2012 20:09:40   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

that sounds creative with aura


Thank you.

quote:

but i do find it maybe being abused too much.
for example
max aura, max static, along with a very good heal.

if i maintained a constant heal loop. if u keep attacking me, it would eventually be UR undoing.
as all i do is heal loop, while ur still taking damage and wasting turns and energy on attacking me.

basically it would be like a damage deflection tank. the more u deal on me, the more u get dealt back on the same turn.
which could also force VERY long battles, and create another super Op build if such thing isn't tested.


Lets see if my level of manipulation can help me defend my suggestion:

Constant heal loop: Surviving long enough to be able to heal.
Constantly being attacked(?): Could vary from Primary to Sidearm to Auxiliary to Robot to supplementary attack skills (multi-shot/surgical strike).

That is a good point, I will commend you for that. A player hoping to battle this type of CH would be advised to avoid using their Primary as much as possible. Chances are, with enough common sense that the player will know to use their Sidearm and Auxiliary and maybe even a Robot. The downfall of this type of CH would be, being hammered with ranged attacks. Now every Sidearm cools off in 2 turns, and Auxiliary in 3. If the enemy is a TlM or TM, reroute may allow the use of supplementary skills to avoid Plasma Aura. Not trying to say Plasma Aura would be game-breaking, though. Every once in awhile, losing 10->13 health in sacrifice of a Primary attack may still prove a turntable.

With the disappearance of Plasma Armour, there is extra damage which the CH will be taking. Surviving to heal-loop will be more difficult, not to mention having no defensive passive to make up for taking damage (reroute). The role in this type of CH would be to intimidate as much as they can with their Plasma Aura to minimize being stricken, and defending with powerful countermeasures (energy shield or defense matrix).

This might just be the first strategical CH skill tree for hire.
AQ Epic  Post #: 656
2/27/2012 20:20:56   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

That is a good point, I will commend you for that. A player hoping to battle this type of CH would be advised to avoid using their Primary as much as possible. Chances are, with enough common sense that the player will know to use their Sidearm and Auxiliary and maybe even a Robot. The downfall of this type of CH would be, being hammered with ranged attacks. Now every Sidearm cools off in 2 turns, and Auxiliary in 3. If the enemy is a TlM or TM, reroute may allow the use of supplementary skills to avoid Plasma Aura. Not trying to say Plasma Aura would be game-breaking, though. Every once in awhile, losing 10->13 health in sacrifice of a Primary attack may still prove a turntable.


i think tlm might have an easier time out looping it then.
if by what u meant was aura didn't work on aux and gun damage along with robot, then i could just gun, aux, and robot. and heal after.

and ur heal looping so ur using less offense urself. putting me at an advantage over ur aura while staying alive.
and the little damage u do to me when i get the energy return i just focus all energy into using field medic.

same can be said for tech mages, but tech mage has deadly aim so its well, deadlier (no pun intended)
also tech mage would have a better combo of malf, energy gun, and aux. same cant be said for tlm because tlm usually uses physical primary.
AQW Epic  Post #: 657
2/27/2012 20:45:06   
Stabilis
Member

^

Soooooo,

if this version of CH looks weak enough to play in EpicDuel, would you consider it GoldSlayer?
AQ Epic  Post #: 658
2/27/2012 20:49:18   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

if this version of CH looks weak enough to play in EpicDuel, would you consider it GoldSlayer?

if aura is affected by every attack, no. it could possible be OP again.

if its only affected by strike. then no because it would be UP.

bloodlust will outlive it( because they get a % of the amount of damage they do. and im sure its gonna be higher than 10%). and energy regainers will heal loop it aswell while only using gun, aux, and robot.

and yeah i would consider it.
i was told to always consider everything. however considering and doing are 2 different things.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/27/2012 20:50:04 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 659
2/27/2012 21:00:43   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

if aura is affected by every attack, no. it could possible be OP again.

if its only affected by strike. then no because it would be UP.


Anytime the owner is struck by a Primary.

I'm thinking of maybe boosting the skill, perhaps increasing the rage counter, as there is no nerfing skill? What would you suggest Gold?
AQ Epic  Post #: 660
2/27/2012 21:07:27   
goldslayer1
Member

@depressed
well, i would do some significant nerfs to CH. and TLM, in a way that makes it easier for others to compete but not completely over kill the class (like they did to mage and merc) this would also follow up with some buffs on skills.

and they should add the option of having individual skills for every class.
like the bloodlust on Bh and BM are the same bloodlust, but u are able to change the requirements, % values, or energy requirements for skills, etc.
this would allow more diversity in balancing classes while changing a skill in 1 AP (AP for advance proficient. OP sounds wrong sometimes) class without it affecting the weaker class with the same build. (like hybrid on tlm has affected merc.

but for ch, i would remove the plasma armor.
this would stop CH super tank focus heal loop build (which does alot)
aswell as super high dex with energy armor tanking and heal looping. turk made a build similar to my old TLM build that could average 98%. and this one gets results done just as good. i tested that build and its super effective.

one of the changes i would do, is prevent build copying.
OP builds happen because of build copying.
and if i made an OP build now, its nothing but a peasent until it starts getting attention and later copied by many people.

so taking steps into stopping build copying, is something i would do.
along with that it would solve many balance problems as there wouldn't be so many problems with so called OP builds.
but that wouldn't be the end of it. i would also make more changes so that str isn't the "spam stat" when build copying is stopped.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 2/27/2012 21:15:48 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 661
2/27/2012 22:00:41   
theholyfighter
Member

I don't see any necessity in balancing any evolved classes.
As a Cyber, I have a 50%win rate towards Tacticals and Bloods.
IMO, people who said other classes are OPed are because either they lost or couldn't kill them easily. The only OPed situation is between originals and evolved.
AQW Epic  Post #: 662
2/27/2012 23:06:38   
Retrosaur
Member
 

 Give TLM's a Spiked Armor, a move that damages them by a percentage of the damage inflicted.

For example, at max level, it could return 25% damage dealt by opponent.
Passive boost lol.
AQW Epic  Post #: 663
2/27/2012 23:21:34   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Maybe give merc's that but on a TLM it will just make them even more OP.
BH/BM: Remove the requirement for bloodlust and up it a bit, Level 7: 21% Level 8: 23%, Level 9: 25%, Level 10: 27%, up reflex boost to restore 20% of damage into energy instead of 15%.
TM/BM: Increase their stuns chance from 30% to 35% OR have it ignore 10% RES (BH and CH have SA to up the stun chance, and merc's can go up to 40% while ignoring defenses)
CH: Take 5% off static charge for each level, remove SA and give them a skill that increases their chance to hit their opponent and decreases their chance of getting deflected
TLM: Increase the energy needed for frenzy and poison grenade.
BH: Make SA give 1% to deflect every OTHER level and decrease the requirement for each level by 2 support.
Merc: Up hybrid to 8 Def and Res at max, half the amount of health needed for blood shield (Example: -2 health for +4 Res)
Any other ideas for merc? I really don't think there is much else you can do without buffing TLM :/

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 2/27/2012 23:43:26 >
Epic  Post #: 664
2/28/2012 1:51:57   
Remorse
Member

The problem is Oped calasses AND builds,

TLMs and CHs are oped enough to have more vairety then the other but even still most or foced to go a powerbuild.

As for the rest well almost all are ofrced to go a powerbuild.



What needs to happen Is Oped classes such as CH and TLM needs their passive armour traded and ALL power abuser builds need there power reduced by rmeoving aux and gun enahments.

quote:

I don't see any necessity in balancing any evolved classes.
As a Cyber, I have a 50%win rate towards Tacticals and Bloods.
IMO, people who said other classes are OPed are because either they lost or couldn't kill them easily. The only OPed situation is between originals and evolved.


The problem you have is dominating power builds, if these builds were weakened without also romving CH and TLMs passive armour then you we see clearly who oped they are.


If my changes were made them game will hopefully go back to the time when you could use any reaosnable build you wanted and you would stand a chance, when everyone had diffrent builds because the variety worked and there were NO dominating factors.


Goldslayer,
You often go on about how luck is bad, and how you hate it when people copy builds etc.
But then you go on about how to make other CLASSES more powerful to fix these problems..... THAT is not fixing the problem, what you are doing in a sence is giving one army a bigger gun to help them agaisnt the army with a powerful gun..

When if you take away all abusive power what you are left with is two fair armies.

Making other classes stronger WILL never work in fixing current balance issues, WHY? because all your doing is giving classes abusive amunition they can use to abuse!
And how do you not realise that MOST luck based prblem are because of build having too much power, Block would not be a problem if strikes in the first place werent so pwerful to knock someone out in three turns!

Seroius action needs to be tacken agianst power,
But I wont to make it clear that it wont necesarily effect the speed of battles, you can still go quick killing builds which I know you adore because not only will people have less power but less defences also.
The only diffrence is build wont Be forced to play deffensive form the very first starying strike, or they wont be forced to unleash power quick just so they don die first which is WHY luck is so influencing!

Epic  Post #: 665
2/28/2012 3:43:45   
drinde
Member

@Depressed

How about these options for Blue Aura?

a) Attacker with Strike takes up to 20% DMG done by him/her

b) Add a cooldown period for the skill.

Now, for STR Nerfs:

When you use a Nerf Skill, it doesn't do DMG at all. This would reduce STR Build DMG, as well as allow Defensive players to save some HP. IMO, this should also apply to the Azrael Stinger though.

This does not count towards Intimidate or Curse.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 666
2/29/2012 4:59:10   
Striker44
Member

For cybers first move and easy one is to decrease amount of static charge energy gain (just like frenzy was nerf)
Post #: 667
2/29/2012 8:10:35   
Sageofpeace
Member

Blood mage: a passive armor that convert certain percent of the damage they take in to hp

THATS WHAT THEY NEED
Post #: 668
2/29/2012 11:10:38   
Stabilis
Member

@sage,

So hybrid armour?

Edit: Now that you mention it, a swap of BM's deadly aim to hybrid armour would be a good repair to improve their durability and lower their aggression.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 2/29/2012 11:14:22 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 669
2/29/2012 14:37:10   
Wootz
Member

Void,
I belive that the suggestion you wrote would incourage High Strenght and High Health abusive builds, you don't need to have an debuff to have an effective Strenghter, just look at the Blood Mages.
AQW Epic  Post #: 670
2/29/2012 14:50:05   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Goldslayer,
You often go on about how luck is bad, and how you hate it when people copy builds etc.
But then you go on about how to make other CLASSES more powerful to fix these problems..... THAT is not fixing the problem, what you are doing in a sence is giving one army a bigger gun to help them agaisnt the army with a powerful gun..

When if you take away all abusive power what you are left with is two fair armies.

Making other classes stronger WILL never work in fixing current balance issues, WHY? because all your doing is giving classes abusive amunition they can use to abuse!
And how do you not realise that MOST luck based prblem are because of build having too much power, Block would not be a problem if strikes in the first place werent so pwerful to knock someone out in three turns!

Seroius action needs to be tacken agianst power,
But I wont to make it clear that it wont necesarily effect the speed of battles, you can still go quick killing builds which I know you adore because not only will people have less power but less defences also.
The only diffrence is build wont Be forced to play deffensive form the very first starying strike, or they wont be forced to unleash power quick just so they don die first which is WHY luck is so influencing!

what?
where did i say anything about making an OP build/class stronger?
can u quote what ur replying at? (this is part of the reason why i quote everything i reply to. so it doesn't confuse others)
AQW Epic  Post #: 671
2/29/2012 15:06:38   
supermasivo
Member

Plasma aura is one of the best idea i ever read on EDs as a new skill to test...
HAVE U GUYS PLAYED SOME MMROPG games? have u played TANKER classes? they use a shield ryt? for extra def (dex in this case to improve blocks) they have a active skill... not passive making all kind of melee reflecting damage to enemy...
have u realized too? that even mages or arrows or gun shots can be blocked too?

Maybe if ED make a new kind of class that use a shield plus a gun or a small sword/one handed?

And what about to "choose" your kind of class? maybe like this: BH main class: now u can choose a tanker class called cyber "tanker" (example) or a more agressive class with only aggro skills like cyber "nuker"???? (just a example name)
i mean if ED make a SUBCLASS program?

Epic  Post #: 672
2/29/2012 15:21:24   
goldslayer1
Member

@super
why would u want to make more tanks?
do u not see whats going on with cybers right now?
they super tank, and regain consistent amount of energy allowing them to heal loop.
i played matches that went as far as 40 rounds because of tank cyber hunter.
AQW Epic  Post #: 673
2/29/2012 15:59:21   
supermasivo
Member

gold... i think u dont get my main idea... its the "subclass" feature... but i think that should be a suggestion not a balance discussion.
and that reflect damage system coould be for another class too, not only CH.
New classes? NO, subclasses and that "specialization system" ;)
Epic  Post #: 674
2/29/2012 15:59:10   
Wootz
Member

The things is that the skills are OP'd.
Just the Blue rain one and the one which improves connection or whatever.
AQW Epic  Post #: 675
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