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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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1/27/2012 5:46:10   
drinde
Member

Or maybe let agility affect Battle Values:

Base Damage:
00-15: No change
15-21: -10% HP
22-29: -20% HP
29+: -30% HP

Defense/Resistance (Includes Armor and Passive Skills, ignores temporary Boosts)
00-28: No change
28-35: Opponent has 10% Additional Crit Chance
35+: Opponent has 20% Additional Crit Chance

Bye bye, abuse. Its a bit drastic though.

DF MQ Epic  Post #: 51
1/27/2012 5:55:55   
Wootz
Member

The Defense/Resistance is too drastic, the Base damage one is perfect.
And I think you meant 17-21, right?

Maybe lowering all of 'em by half would prevent the 'drastic' measures.
AQW Epic  Post #: 52
1/27/2012 5:58:59   
drinde
Member

Can do. But I found a different solving method.

Base Damage:
00-15: No change
16-21: -10% HP
22-29: -20% HP
29+: -30% HP

Defense/Resistance (Includes Armor and Passive Skills, ignores temporary Boosts)
00-28: No change
28-35: Opponent has +5 to minimum Damage
35+: Opponent has +10 to minimum Damage

< Message edited by drinde -- 1/27/2012 5:59:14 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 53
1/27/2012 6:02:46   
Wootz
Member

It looks better now :)
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
1/27/2012 6:56:44   
Prakash 007
Member

idk if this is the right place to post this but here goes, i have been quite inactive for about a month now, i see the game drastically more balanced, this isn't the epicduel i know of :), the game is just amazing with all the class evenness now, here is how i see classes :
TLM>BM>CH>TLM
Merc>BH>TM>Merc

the classes and weapons are all looking great, on the whole i feel much more tempted to play, so anyway, keep up the good work ED team.
Epic  Post #: 55
1/27/2012 7:14:52   
Stabilis
Member

@Drinde,

I like the agility that determines weapon damage, but I have some issues with the defense calculator. Firstly, if a player has a higher defense, shouldn't they be entitled to defend from more damage? I can imagine that you're issue is with tanks, or maybe blocks and deflections... maybe rage? I'm sure you could come up with a suggestion about agility based on those.
AQ Epic  Post #: 56
1/27/2012 7:20:33   
drinde
Member

So, I have 3 options in my mind:

Defense/Resistance (Includes Armor and Passive Skills, ignores temporary Boosts)
00-28: No change
29-35: Opponent has +5 to minimum Damage
36+: Opponent has +10 to minimum Damage

OR

Defense/Resistance (Includes Armor and Passive Skills, ignores temporary Boosts)
00-28: No change
29-35: Opponent has 10% Additional Crit Chance
36+: Opponent has 20% Additional Crit Chance

OR

Defense/Resistance (Includes Armor and Passive Skills, ignores temporary Boosts)
00-28: No change
29-35: Opponent has +10 RagePoints per turn
36+: Opponent has +20 RagePoints per turn

< Message edited by drinde -- 1/27/2012 7:29:40 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 57
1/27/2012 7:31:20   
Stabilis
Member

Hehehehehehe, those seem to be ranked to according to what I would score them ;P.

Suggestion 1) Neutral

Suggestion 2) I like

Suggestion 3) I like + 1
AQ Epic  Post #: 58
1/27/2012 10:24:40   
drinde
Member

More ideas:

Backlash: When ever an opponent takes a heavy hit of damage, say above 40 Damage in one shot, the attacker takes 15% of the Damage, ignoring Defense/Resistance.


Venom Strike vs. Toxic Grenade
Blockable vs. Unblockable
70% DMG vs. 25% DMG
Static DoT vs. Scaling DoT
42 Tech Requirement vs. No Requirement
32 EP vs. 33 EP


Now, Toxic Grenade may seem to do lower damage, but it is unblockable, level scaled and does not possess a requirement. You might want to argue that it also costs 1 EP more, but I won't comment on the irrelevance of that. I suggest that either Venom Strike loses its Requirement to Toxic Grenade, or that it gets to scale with LV.

< Message edited by drinde -- 1/27/2012 10:32:38 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 59
1/27/2012 10:30:53   
theholyfighter
Member

to above^ maybe different solutions to different Battle Modes
AQW Epic  Post #: 60
1/27/2012 10:32:17   
Stabilis
Member

@Drinde,
Losing its requirements is a good idea as it can often be less efficient than the grenade.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 1/27/2012 11:11:07 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 61
1/27/2012 11:06:18   
Remorse
Member

New ,Skill/Passive robot special abilaty/consumable sheild, idea.

POWER ARMOUR.
Provides a certain amount of armour to both defence and resistance depending by how much more damage your oppenent did to you in the previous turn.
Lasts until your opponent takes off any amount of damage. (in most cases 1-2 turns)
Does not provide bonus armour if you out damage your oppenent in the previous turn.
Bonus armour does not add to rage given to the opponent.

For example
If you hit 10 damage on your opponent and your oppenent hits 20 damage on you, your opponent outdamages you by 10 damage now in this example you have a power armour of 10%(of the damage diffrence), in this case your oppent outdmages you by 10 therefore 10% of 10 is 1, so you ge a bonus 1 defence+res on your net oppenent attack.
If your oppenent masscred for example and outdmagaed you by say 50 damage and you had a max power armour skill providing say 30% bonus then it would be plus 15 defence/resistance until your oppenent hits you without giving them bonus rage from the high defence, which means you can stand a fighting chance say if your oppenent crit mascres and you dont die you will get ALOT! of defence on their next attck so you can catch up on unfair ground and you wont have to worry about them rageing straight after, it also means if you get blocked alot, an upside is higher defence as long as you oppenent hits during that turn.

Reasoning?
With this idea you can cut out many balance issues such as first turn being so influencial as if your oppenent gets the first turn you get armour quicker for your next turn without factoring you attack,(this means if you opponent gets first turn it asumes you had a turn before which did not do any damage and is calculated on only the oppenents dmagae with out subtracting your own therfore you get more then usual defences on thier next attack)

It means sacrisifng a turn for things such as sheilding, energy drains, using robot effect wont cost you the game as much.

Bad luck facotrs and effects are GREATLY reduced, blocks will enusre high defence as unless your opnent doesnt attack or is also blocked you will get defence, if you get crited you will most likely get higher defence deflects same as block, STUNS will become very manageable as if you are stunned you automatically get defence based on the damage of the stun attack since your turn was skipped.

It also solves many issues with current builds which can kill almost all builds simply by starting effortlessy.


It lessons the gap between varium non varium and gives lower levels a better chance.


NOTE: this will not make tanks more powerful, why? because they will barely ever get the bonus from this as they would most likely be the player doing higher damage.
Infact it would be a major disadvanatges to tanks because their oppenent would be getting constantt power armour defences sisnce tanks rarely ever get outdmagaed.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 1/27/2012 11:23:08 >
Epic  Post #: 62
1/27/2012 22:05:54   
liy010
Member

Today, I had a 2vs2 Battle the Teams were...

Me (Level 29 Non-Varium...Well I can't equip Frost Destroyer) and another level 29 (Non-Varium)

VS

Level 28 (Non-Varium) and Level 33 (Full Varium)

I don't think this team is fair...Also I don't know if it's just me but the Lower level always goes first. I mean, 29+29=58 and 28+33=61 so the teams are already unfair but no, they have to increase the Un-Fairness (Is this a word?) by giving them the first move.

Three Days ago, had 140 more Wins than losses and now I only have 96 more. I'm not a bad teammate but these teams are impossible to win.

I think the level range should be 2-3 not 1-5. What do you guys think?

Merged topic, this belongs in the balance topic ~ Lycus

< Message edited by Lycus -- 1/28/2012 5:01:36 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 63
1/27/2012 22:36:33   
Wraith
Member
 

 It's also possible for you and your partner to have bennlevel 31 Mercs with Artillery, and knocked both guys out.

...
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 64
1/27/2012 22:54:45   
DeathGuard
Member

Keep fighting and have fun, don't stop to think about how many loses you have or hamny wins you have, record is just full of numbers, no values.
A wise player said to me once that the player that had most loses was the best, why is this? Because every single time he lost, he didn't care and continue fighting no matter if his record wasn't as good as others. I'm proud of my 4406 losses in 1vs1, they have helped me improved most of my builds and have more creativity. We are never true persons if we don't fail at least once, we learn from mistakes and we must lose to be true players, to be victorious. At last, failing/losing, is just another step in the path of victory/triumph.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 65
1/27/2012 23:37:46   
Luna_moonraider
Member

first off hello every1 :) luna here. ok basically 2v2 has been very unbalance yes since beta. Also this should not be here but in the balance discussion thread but since its here i should just make a few comments bout 2v2 since yeah i been doing 2v2 since i started playing epicduel. first off 2v2 has always been unbalance(excluding 2 week before when every1 was busy with the war) a varium player gains a big advantage in 2v2 same goes with 1v1 due to the constant new weapons being release.

2v2 is unfair because:

1) The gap between varium and non varium is getting bigger and bigger with every update.
2) Well most non variums go into 2v2 because the cant carry/play by themselves in 1v1 as the keep on running into varium players and keep on losing(that explains the high amount of noobs in 2v2)
3) constant leaving or disconnection( u know what i mean when u lose a partner the chances of u winning drops drastically)
4) Afk partners/partners which skip turn(yes sometimes lag cause this)
5) The lvl difference is 5 lvl difference it was ok whne the lvl cap was lvl 30 but when the raised the lvl cap problems start surfacing and as hudelf said in this thread 2v2 was scaled so that we wont get so much unfair battles but i think the scaling was effective but due to not many people playing because of the war it is not that accurate. looks like more scaling must be done in 2v2.
6) vsing 2 varium players in 2v2 when u have a non varium partner and you are non varium. this has been a big problem in 2v2 since varium was introduced

other unfair things

1) well this has been suggested and said many times by me but the devs seem to ignore it i guess. influence gained by 2v2 faction well 2v2 take more time and yet u still get 5 influence per battle won. it is the same a 1v1 and it is totally unfair for 2v2 faction.
2) faction member meeting each other in 2v2(well this is also annoying in 1v1). This waste time for faction who are goin for 2v2 medal and 1v1 medal. but in 2v2 it is a whole different problem it is called oh i dc for the faction to get fast win.

well that is all i can think of for now lets just hope the devs would balance 2v2 soon but i highly dont think it would be fast because balance takes time(been waiting for 2v2 balance since beta well still waiting)

_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 66
1/28/2012 13:37:49   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 I recall seeing a post the other day about postponing the latest balance changes because the new changes weren't "stable". Do you think the current balance changes are "stable" now? As a mage, I'm with Luna...been waiting since beta.

Might as well just have TLM and CH fight each other exclusively and let the rest of us battle on a more level playing field. TLM/CH can spend 5 minutes trying to hit each other and the other classes can move away from strength builds and actually get some diversity and creativity into our battles.

Unfortunately, small insignificant balance changes (e.g. moving ranged deflect rate to tech) will continue until the player class changes die down. And honestly, some of these posts make it seem like this is some BIG advantage and that now they will be deflecting ALL incoming ranged attacks...uh, plz... don't think so. Anyway, once the class changes die down, some "major" change will occur trying to jumpstart the process all over again. How hard is it to take all hybrid away or give everyone some form of hybrid? How hard is it to make a non-varium server for those who are sick of losing all the time to these OP varium builds? Once there is some base parity between EVERYONE, some of these little balance tweaks might actually have a chance to work as intended...
Post #: 67
1/28/2012 14:26:02   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 With all bots, a more sound system needs to be used. While assault bots can give build maintenance, the new bot destroys shield/defensive builds.

I feel, if players need to put points in their builds, bots should be the same. Points need to be added for their ability for effectiveness. Both of these bots are extremes of one another, and being a passive player, I feel my ability to play is scrunched between these bots. 80% is too much and too easy. A 2 sided bot stat should be introduced. If a player prefers one skill of a bot over another they should invest in it. A player wishes to have a bot reliant build, points should be invested.

Weapon/Armor features is another problematic issue. These features, as fun and nice as they are, they are no skill required using them since it is a percentage based occurrence to be activated. If more items like these continue to be introduced, a player can fully equip (armor, side-arm, aux, primary) each feature skill item and have every single advantage possible.

My suggestion is have base percentage of 1-5% of any item. Add new stats for weapon skills.
For example:
Gun Feature
Armor Feature
Aux Feature
Primary Feature


And players must invest their stat points for them to be effective from 1% or if they want more, invest more points for a higher percentage.


PVP play had gotten extremely complicated with Bots and Weapon features to play a strategic way.

< Message edited by JZaanu -- 1/28/2012 14:31:19 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 68
1/28/2012 16:08:31   
Hun Kingq
Member

Between the new classes it has become so off balance it is a joke after the introduction of the two new passive armors and after moving deflection to Tech it seems everyone is not only blocking but deflecting but the Blood Mage.

Because the Blood Mage has no energy return, energy stealing, a debuff skill to increase their power, or a debuff skill that is more efficient on affecting the skills and weapons that would make the battle a game changer but why would the programmers want that?

A Blood Mage has to have one energy skill and one physical skill on max to see any substantial damage to make the difference in the match. They have to have energy above 60 due to no energy return and that a large portion of energy can be stolen. With the inefficiency of Reflex boost and energy shield against weapons and sometimes against skills they now have to have high dex, high tech,and to gain any kind of power high strength above 20 due to other players high defense or resistance. So with the requirement of 42 support for max Deadly Aim, that forces the Blood Mage to take away points from the only thing that is left health.

Without enhancements the Blood Mage would not be able to get the power and somewhat of a defense/resistance to survey more than two rounds. The Blood Mage to survive and be competitive in battle will have to be a varium beast, if you are a blood mage you know this to be true and if you are not you have no idea.

So now we have see every update of supposed balance, we have to wonder when they tell us in the next design notes that adjustments will be made to bring balance between the classes, are they truly serious? Especially when it makes one or two classes stronger and the third class that is struggling to compete, struggle even more.

Since the Blood mage lacks so many things it should be the toughest class to beat not the easiest. You would not send a weak person into a bike race with one flat tire while giving the stronger person a bike with no flat tires?

To bring balance they need to revamp the Blood mage big time so they can compete and have some chance of winning against two Cyber Hunters or tact mercs of the same levels with basically the same gear, especially the tank builds because if you getting 15 damage with a level 34 and above pistol or 36 damage on max level fireball against a player with less than total defense of 26 with energy armor which seems like the program is always taking the high end value. It is up to Titan and the Programmers to bring balance into the game but do they really want that?
Epic  Post #: 69
1/28/2012 17:49:29   
Zeoth
Member

@above
They didn't do the balance update yet actually I don't why ur complaining.
Post #: 70
1/28/2012 17:53:32   
Goony
Constructive!


 ^Deflection hasn't been moved to technology yet!

Hudelf mentioned that it was causing issues so it has been delayed at the moment. I can't get the quote, it was in the deleted design notes thread.

Also, Ashari made a brief comment about the battle tracker in that thread. Cyber Hunters are doing well and Mercenaries and Tech Mages are struggling or words to that effect!
Epic  Post #: 71
1/28/2012 20:49:37   
drinde
Member

quote:

80% is too much and too easy.


Aye, with 80% Debuff and Buff removal, you have lost a large amount of EP to your opponent's mere single turn.

I suggest it does this:

0 Focus: 30%
1 Focus: 40%
2 Focus: 50%
3 Focus: 60%
4 Focus: 60%
5 Focus: 60%

At 60%, it would be less overpowering.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 72
1/28/2012 20:53:10   
Ranloth
Banned


 Forcing everyone to get Focus build isn't good either, as that really destroys creativity and currently favours Varium players a lot. Problem is probably not with the Bot, but availability. If everyone had it, we wouldn't really bother as it's our "normal" equipment just like weapons.
AQ Epic  Post #: 73
1/28/2012 20:54:01   
drinde
Member

Uhm, up to 3 Focus isn't really a focus build, is it?
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 74
1/28/2012 20:54:59   
Stabilis
Member

@Trans

True, and because of the stat placement in focus, most of these players HAVE to use 95 health at +1 def/res... somewhat of a BONUS for being the players to use the robots most effectively?!


(Drinde = the forum ninja right now)


Oh, @Drinde,

I would have to classify anyone who has any level of focus a focus player; its just that everyone has a different level and power at being a focus user is all.

< Message edited by greenrain13 -- 1/28/2012 20:57:49 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 75
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