RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread


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3/3/2012 23:04:51

Matrix77
Member

quote:

@Matrix: What the ... SC build is OPED? LOL

@deathguard - still wondering with a big WHAT THE?? SC OPED? in my mind there xP

@Isaiah

quote:

Because they are OP.

TM's SC build = OP huh....so tell me, TLM str build with smoke = Not OP? :)

quote:

Lying you say? I guess my hundreds of loses I gained within the past 2 days from CHs,BMs, and TMs are all lies I guess.

not to be defending AQWplayer here but he is right, time to start using some brains and live up to the name of the class. Time to get Tactical :) If we mages and other classes had to find ways to counter your TLM OP 8 Month class build this entire time and we manage to put up with it, then you guys should at least show some "game manship" and start feel how we the lower classes felt when you all dominated us like if we were ants. TLMs for the last time is not UP, they are simply now nothing more but balance, maybe flaw a little there with the FC but for the most part they are balance and some str TLMs are still proving that smoke is not necessary for them to beat the hell out of other classes. So what's the big crying about TLM being UP by some of you guys here? O.o....Start thinking of more effective builds!

quote:

They are and they are OP at the same time for obvious reasons such as them considering all TLMs to be easy.

So if Im a merc and i consider CH easy to beat, is merc class now OP? O.o.......

quote:

Then how can I stand a chance against TLM and CH but stand no chance against them? They usually hit in the 60s when they use SC.

NO WAY!! my SC build with 29-34 dex was it? only hit in the 50s against decent res builds. Players with 20-24+9+1 easily put my SC hit to 50s, and some that plays smart lowers my SC all the way to 30s and those are TANK TLMs+Decent str. If TMs are hitting 60s on you, then your build really needs a BIG TIME FIX, because there is no way a TM can do so much on you UNLESS they crt or malf you and you dont have any robot to reduce the debuff or apply blood shield etc....

AQW

Epic

Post #: 251

3/3/2012 23:08:14

IsaiahtheMage
Member

@Matrix They hit that high because I don't bother to debuff the SC knowing I'll lose anyway.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 252

3/3/2012 23:09:46

Hun Kingq
Member

andy123, you know with HELO if they block you get no energy if you get blocked, no health, little damage, little return. No smart Blood mage would have it on max. Quite a few would have either fireball/plasma cannon combo with max deadly aim. Plasma cannon/Plasma Rain combo with max Deadly Aim. Both Scernios would mean low DEX and what does low dex means high damage with physical weapons. What happens when you malfunction, lowers tech increases damage. What happens when emp is used, loss of energy. What happens when Atom smasher is used, because of low dex not blocked anymore, loss of energy. Right now does the Blood Mage have anything but boosters to return energy, no. The the amount of damage the Blood Mage does make a difference at 23% health return, no. Against the Hunter class a blood Mage could regular strike 4 times and get blocked 3 times but most likely get blocked 4 times and they even block bot attacks. Sometimes tact mercs and mercs block that often. does HELO increase the damage output, no, all it does is combine Blood Lust and reroute giving them a unique unlinked skill. So saying it would make that class overpowered would not because it does not increase the power of that class, something that many of you fail to grasp.

So andy123 show everyone how HELO will increase the power of the Blood Mage.

Everyone keeps trying to say all multis are the same, I have been playing a super strength Blood Mage in 2vs2, that means very low tech no energy armor, physical armor with low dex. A Blood Mage with tech at 140 (40-48) only got 37 damage, a tact merc on the same team with support at 135 (28-34) got 55 plus damage with artillery strike. A cyber hunter with 156 (40-48) Dex got 50 plus damage. I have done 2vs2 long enough to know that the multis are not equal. To help out the battle tracker I would go back and do a super high tech build with enough energy because all of you will either throw an EMP or Atom smash me so they can't get the data from Plasma Rain to improve it but for some reason you don't want to throw an EMP or Atom smasher anyone else especially when your on my side.

Does the tact merc still have Atom smasher? If yes and a tact merc is not using it allowing the Blood Mage or any other class to use their next attacks it is your fault for loosing the match.

On a 2vs2 leader board one time I saw a Blood Mage in the top 3 he had 75% win ratio while the other two had 85% or greater so this Blood Mage had to do more 2vs2 battles to even get in the top three so the Blood Mage class is not just fine.

< Message edited by Hun Kingq -- 3/3/2012 23:18:20 >

Epic	Post #: 253

3/3/2012 23:11:48

Arevero
Member

@Ashari

In that case then the nerf would not be as dramatic as it seems, if the case was to add classes to increase more variety to the game, then i wouldn't argue against that, but it's still a problem if these classes which need varium/50k creds, aren't as good as your original class, unless everyone used different classes for the experience, not the all-time winning OPness that many still love by

So if it is the scenario above, then I'd gladly live with the nerf, but if players aren't happy, I'd suggest to go back again and make new balance changes. :)

Post #: 254

3/3/2012 23:12:06

Matrix77
Member

@Isaiah - you hadn't tried, what makes you think you wont stand a chance? O.o.....and if you know you can't beat them, then go think of more creative builds to beat them, tank builds works really fine on SC TMs so what's the big commotion? I just got myself whupped by str TLMs, they aren't complaining O.o.....

Many players complain about build variety etc...but how can there be variety if 90% of the time, players just relies on OP builds for the specific class? then when that OP class gets nerf, they all go complaining, yet they dont stop for a moment and say "I'll just make another build and show them who's boss still" ? O.o

AQW

Epic

Post #: 255

3/3/2012 23:14:21

Stabilis
Member

I just got home from work and I have to work in 8 hours from now. Expect my next post in Balance Discussion to arrive in 13 hours.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 3/3/2012 23:16:06 >

Epic

Post #: 256

3/3/2012 23:23:29

The Anonymous
Member

quote:

^ I didn't think that would come as a surprise. It's not the first time I've said that evolved classes are not meant to overpower the original classes. They were added for more variety in combat and to break the rock-paper-scissors balance triangle that had formed between Mercenaries, Bounty Hunters and Tech Mages.

They still are a bit too similar to their original classes in some respects, but making new skills is a time consuming process. Ideally, they would be sharing fewer of the original class' skills.

Hi guys.

I totally agree with Ashari's point. The key is VARIETY. Variety brings this game more complexity and pleasure.

As a TLM, the current situation is so interesting, because TLM and Merc share very similar skills.

When I see a merc, as if I see another ME in the mirror.

I understand that new skill is a time consuming process. It is fine, and we can wait.

CARRY ON ! Game Developers. Hooray !!

AQW

Epic

Post #: 257

3/3/2012 23:29:22

Stabilis
Member

Hey, I for one am not "pleasured" by this game...

I use it for kicks.

Kicks, shots, explosions, and massacres.

But yes I put variety over overshadowing PvP.

Epic

Post #: 258

3/3/2012 23:37:53

AQWPlayer
Member

^
With that, I can pretty much be sure (even w/o looking at your charpage) you are a hunter that plants tons of bombs and fires tons of turrets and stuff ._.

< Message edited by AQWPlayer -- 3/3/2012 23:38:07 >

AQW	Post #: 259

3/3/2012 23:46:25

IsaiahtheMage
Member

CH is officially instant lose now. I hope they get nerfed soon. As in lose their malfunction as they are in the same scenario as us TLMs.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 260

3/3/2012 23:51:01

AQWPlayer
Member

@Isaiah
If that happens, I can already imagine a 5 focus CH with high dex, phy armor, max plasma shield, mid lvl technician and high heal :D FTW!

AQW	Post #: 261

3/3/2012 23:51:26

goldslayer1
Member

@isaia
loosing plasma armor and putting static like it was before, would be a better situation.
CH was fine before it received plasma armor. and this was when tlm was considered OP.

due to all these armors going around, everyone that uses focus now has a huge advantage in super tank builds.

the 5 focus CH before didn't tank anywhere near like they do today.
and if they used dex CH without plasma armor they would actually have a defense that can be considered low.

this game went from 1 class having a passive armor to 3 classes having a passive armor.
putting the original class with said passive armor at a disadvantage due to its nerf on the other skills in its skill tree.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 3/3/2012 23:54:08 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 262

3/3/2012 23:53:04

AQWPlayer
Member

@goldslayer
And this is another of the rare occasions on which I would agree with you :P

AQW	Post #: 263

3/3/2012 23:58:30

drinde
Member

Hmmm.

CH gets their Cheapshot replaced with this?

Wavelength
-6-15% HP
-15% Ignore
-DMG based on STR

And Bloodshield replaces Plasma Armor.

Epic

Post #: 264

3/3/2012 23:59:59

Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Like the second idea.
Don't understand the first, care to explain?

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 3/4/2012 0:00:47 >

Epic	Post #: 265

3/4/2012 0:05:03

drinde
Member

@Zman

Sure. Since CHs will gain Bloodshield, they need some way to get HP. Thus, Wavelength.

It is a weaker version of Frenzy, which regains HP lost through Bloodshield.

Wavelength (LV1)
-Regain 5% HP from DMG dealt (+2% for 6 LVs, then +1 for remaining 3)
-15% Ignore on DEF/RES
-DMG based on STR
-Costs 8 EP (+2 per LV)

Epic

Post #: 266

3/4/2012 0:07:04

Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Oh okay now I get it I just didn't understand the idea, but with malfunction it seems a bit much to have it ignore res maybe 10% instead of 15%?

Epic	Post #: 267

3/4/2012 0:25:36

Arevero
Member

Right now the nerf has already been done, so what it means is to live with it. The main purpose that we, as players, is now to try and convince the balance team to hear, and possibly accept some of our suggestions to take away problems that we have encountered during this nerf. To all the players who are trying to make the balance team take away this nerf, is permanently useless, it's time to move on, and instead of trying to stop what has already happened, we should persuade the Balance Team to make some changes to the current nerf.

Perhaps the Balance team won't change any of the nerfs, but the point is to make those people who repeatedly 'whines' to stop, and do some thing in their potential that will actually make a difference.

I'm sorry if I sound like accusing people or being 'dramatic' again

but yea, that is my main point.
Thanks.

Post #: 268

3/4/2012 0:29:57

JohnMenzies
Member

@Hun King

I won 2v2 b4 with my Blood Mage( Death Killer 12345 ) and i had around 75%, So i agree with you on this one.

< Message edited by JohnMenzies -- 3/4/2012 0:34:38 >

_____________________________

- John

Epic	Post #: 269

3/4/2012 0:31:01

drinde
Member

Wavelength (LV1)
-Regain 5% HP from DMG dealt (+2% for 6 LVs, then +1 for remaining 3)
-Unblockable
-DMG based on SUPP
-Energy
-Costs 12 EP (+1 per LV)

Modified it a bit.

BH Slight Buff:

Boost to Venom Strike? I mean, Tactical Mercs have Toxic, which is able to scale, has no requirement, and is unblockable.

I suggest letting Venom Strike scale...

< Message edited by drinde -- 3/4/2012 0:34:25 >

Epic

Post #: 270

3/4/2012 1:02:05

Remorse
Member

Balance = Totally destroyed.

Result of nerfing TLMs and CH without remving the effecrtof enhaments of Power builds is a disaster.

Balance is proberly reached one if its worst point ever.

ABSOLTELY EVERY CLASS is FORCED!!! to go an effortless luck inforced STR SPAMMER OR POWER BUILD!!!

Before CH balanced build could stand a chance now they cant, yes that build was oped but it was the only the stopping the awful rein of STR builds.

WHY DOES THE BALANCE TEAM constantly ignore the fact that power builds need to be reduced in POWER!!

They seem to be constantly supporting these builds???!!

Well done balance team for destrying all hopes of using stretgy to win.
Tell me how do you beat a STR blood mage if they start???? HOW???
How with staregy rather then STR spamming yourself do you beat these builds???????

REMOVE GUN AND AUX ENHEMANETS!!

Sorry for being so imature here BUT I AM EXTREEMLY ANGRY THAT THE BALANCE TEAM HAS DONE NOTHING BUT MAKE THIS ISSUE WORSE AND WORSE!!

STOP POWER BUILDS NOW!!!

Ive treid giving heaps of suggestions, Ive tried putting in reasonable feedback and NOTHING WORKS.
I sit here and watch this game fall to peices and get ignored!!!

You say you want a mature forum yet you resort players TO SCREAM there problems because nothing is DONE! SO guess what NOW IM SCREAMING!

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/4/2012 1:04:45 >

Epic	Post #: 271

3/4/2012 1:06:48

IsaiahtheMage
Member

@Remorse Indeed. Every balanced build is defeated by power spamming builds.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 272

3/4/2012 1:13:39

drinde
Member

....Yep.

How about this: For STRIKING, a maximum damage of 20 DMG is there, unless Raged.

Epic

Post #: 273

3/4/2012 1:13:53

Rayman
Banned

Was Easier To Beat Str BMs or other type of str build with reflex-and matrix but azrael borg Ruined THAT the only way is with bh using smoke and blocking all attacks but block Never Happends.
Reflex/matrix easier to beat str Spammers but AB ruined it and i think there should be a bot that is same as gamma bot but passively disables azrael borg special. So we can kill them suing Reflex/Matrix. Just saying.
and i Agree with remorse.

Bring Back Focus dmg to Gun.aux.Primary weapons.

< Message edited by raymanpwner -- 3/4/2012 1:14:37 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 274

3/4/2012 1:43:45

Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:

BH Slight Buff:

Boost to Venom Strike? I mean, Tactical Mercs have Toxic, which is able to scale, has no requirement, and is unblockable.

I suggest letting Venom Strike scale...

Venom is such an underused skill so not many will be affected by it. Maybe make BL cap at 25% instead of 23%?

< Message edited by zman 2 -- 3/4/2012 1:44:12 >

Epic	Post #: 275

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