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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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3/3/2012 2:30:29   
Arevero
Member




True i guess, better not make a class OP, or else its gona be nerfed twice as hard in the following steps.

< Message edited by Arevero -- 3/3/2012 2:40:27 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 151
3/3/2012 2:30:55   
RageSoul
Member

@Art
Hmmm.. good point , but as you can see , strategy is not really the problem there . I use good strategy and i haven't been complaining for like a few months because of deeper research . But if a guy what a super bad build and he has equal gear quality with me but wrong placed stats , no luck happened , beat me and his strategy is bad ... also a lower leveled .... then that's OPed.
AQW Epic  Post #: 152
3/3/2012 2:32:10   
drinde
Member

Right....

I'm just gonna post another thing here:

Block Diminish: Once you've blocked once, you have a -5% chance to block in the rest of the battle. This stacks 4 times and then resets.

Goldslayer1 would like this. :P
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 153
3/3/2012 2:36:36   
RageSoul
Member

^I like! :D
AQW Epic  Post #: 154
3/3/2012 2:37:14   
TheArtOfRuin
Member

Ah, but it took strategy for someone to discover the chain of attacks. Then people caught on and it became something almost everyone was using. and you never know. It could have been luck in regards to the situation you presented.

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Post #: 155
3/3/2012 2:38:50   
Arevero
Member

For a start this is my first ED forums account, so sorry if i sound noob/new here. I want to post this to show my disappointment to the latest balance change. (As i know some of you may highly disagree but please bear with me)

As we all know, the so far biggest Nerf to Cyber hunters (CH) and Tactical Mercenaries (TLM) has highly affected both sides of these classes. And we also know the common war between TLMs and CHs after the new skill plasma armor was added. Well now both sides are nerfed to the lowest limits.

CYBER
As a all-time fan of cyber hunters, the class was totally fitting my style of playing, and my meaning of 'fun'. Until the buff to CH of plasma armor (PA), we as cybers were left to fend for ourselves with our weak skills and our feebleness. Then when we received PA, we finally got a piece of recognition as our long-time suffering. (Some of you may say I'm being dramatic)

We played more, enjoyed ED more than ever, and for once our class wasn't at the bottom list of classes. I, as a Cyber totally appreciated the new skill added to us. Although it was a big change in ED history, we cybers were OP, and I'm sorry for that. But now our static, our biggest skill that differed us, made us different, unique, is NERFED. From 44% to 29% i am completely shocked. It renders static almost useless(about a common regain of 15 energy), so what can 15 energy do??? Utterly nothing except for a cheap shot. I'm not whinging about this, but that's too much of a change to us. We could lose PA and have technician back, but not static. As a Cyber with 29% regain, we are less fun to play with, and makes our games less exciting. I'm saying this to hopefully make our unique skill back where it belongs. Take alway PA if needed, not static, thank you.

TACTICAL MERC
To begin with, i never liked TLMs, nor mercenaries. But even this Nerf took me by surprise. An class without a debuff skill, THAT'S A FIRST! But as much as i despise Mercs, they do not deserve a nerf this big, you could reduce reroute gain, or reduce Smoke Screen takeaway, but taking alway its debuff skill is just too much. It almost renders it useless.

I'm sorry if i sound like a whinger and a person who is unhappy for his own sake(hopefully i don't >.<), but i suggest nerfing something else other than those primary skills of the classes. Thank you for your time, I hope I've made the point.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 156
3/3/2012 2:40:47   
TheArtOfRuin
Member

Whatever, I don't even care anymore. The initial shock has worn off haha time to rework my play style :D

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Post #: 157
3/3/2012 2:42:20   
RageSoul
Member

@Art
So if the problem isn't in the class .... ah yes , i forgot , the issue was build copying .
AQW Epic  Post #: 158
3/3/2012 2:43:12   
Arevero
Member

I just hope Cyber wouldn't be noob again :(



< Message edited by Arevero -- 3/3/2012 2:44:42 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 159
3/3/2012 2:51:33   
drinde
Member

^
Dude, if Plasma Armor stays, they won't EVER be a noob class.
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 160
3/3/2012 3:08:35   
Arevero
Member

They could take PA alway or nerf it down to +10, but static nerf is the main problem concerning cybers as it affects the entire calculation of our game.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 161
3/3/2012 3:18:00   
RageSoul
Member

^or just replace PA with Energy Shield .
AQW Epic  Post #: 162
3/3/2012 3:21:04   
Arevero
Member

But with energy shield we also have DEF Matrix. ??? That would be weird for the class, technician would be the best option.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 163
3/3/2012 3:30:22   
RageSoul
Member

@Ar
What's weird about that? They're Cyber Hunters after all and those two shields are made by technology . Also ES saves you more points than Technician .
AQW Epic  Post #: 164
3/3/2012 4:08:59   
Arevero
Member

Actually I would like to see some suggested skills made by the fellow players, test it to see if it works out well, if it does, adding these skills would make ED further more interesting.

It's still a doubt that the Balance team will give CH Energy Shield, but for now we'll see how it turns out, I'm sure they will work on it once they see the problems with the nerf.

< Message edited by Arevero -- 3/3/2012 21:21:53 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 165
3/3/2012 4:15:54   
RageSoul
Member

@Ar
EMP them back if you still have enough energy , but if you don't , immediately use Static . And who says you can't combine STR and Tank builds ? Those builds work better , even w/o PA ....only thing you need is good strategy and luck ( necessary ) .
AQW Epic  Post #: 166
3/3/2012 4:16:12   
Joe10112
Member

Wow. Nerf so OP, 44 -> 29 percent, that's way too much.

I'd say it wasn't OP at all to begin with.

My idea:

Replace Static with Re-Route (Cybers, right?)

Replace Reroute on Mages with Static (maybe?)

Replace Malfunction with, say Reflex Boost?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 167
3/3/2012 4:33:49   
Arevero
Member

wow wow hold it there, if we replace malf on cybers with RB, then we would be left with no debuff at all, not what i was pointing out...

And about the techmage theory, as a non-evolved class, reroute gives it a huge amount of energy regain, so static would be a good choice, but then again, they have assimilation. ???

whats the point on having static with assimilation, that would be 2 skills, both returning energy, both requiring a turn to attack your enemy (must have no blocks to work) so that would be the turn out of that happening. I'd say they lower the reroute % which will make it less powerful for a starter class.

But back to the main topic, 44% to 29% is definitely over the top, Cybers do not deserve this kind of treatment in my opinion :/
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 168
3/3/2012 5:00:38   
Ranloth
Banned


 I basically thought of new idea for Malf, can someone comment on it? http://forums2.battleon.com/f/fb.asp?m=20126163

@Joe
We said NO to that. Reroute for CHs and Static for TMs? You're trying to make CHs OP'ed again and TMs UP'ed? <_> TMs are allowed to have Reroute: Energy regen + Debuff, we have no Armor which is balanced. It wasn't OP'ed to begin with? Urmm.. yeah so CH could solo Admin 11 right? The one with 1K HP.. Okay, it could have infinite loop of Massacre every few turns and Heal in meantime due to their Tankiness, not OP'ed right..?
That means whole game is UP'ed, including TLMs and CHs <.>

@Arevero
TM is balanced with Reroute, we won't have it taken away as we have Energy-regen and Debuff only, no Armor which makes it balanced. TMs are balanced as well, we have no buffs planned at all no more. Making it lower will cripple TMs even further, we're balanced so why pick on balanced classes now after OP'ed got nerfed?
About CHs - yes they do. Reason? They have Debuff and passive Armor, on top of it kept some kind of Energy regen which is a big bonus. TLMs lost Smoke to keep passive Armor and Energy-regen. See my point there? You get to keep all 3 but at a cost of one being weak.
AQ Epic  Post #: 169
3/3/2012 5:04:20   
drinde
Member

Hmmm. CH remake idearrah*!

Static Charge:
-Boost to 35% Regain.

Cheapshot:
-Replaced with new skill (Recalibrate)

Plasma Armor:
-Changed to BloodShield

Recalibrate:
-Physical
-Fixed DMG Attack
-Improves with Support
-20% Defense Ignore
-30% HP Regain

*I tend to make up new words.

Any comments?

Also, can you guys give me data bout the Diminishing Blocks effect I suggested? Up there...

@Trans
Wouldn't that make CHs way more powerful?

STR Build + Max Malf = Win...

< Message edited by drinde -- 3/3/2012 5:06:40 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 170
3/3/2012 5:07:47   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

Right....

I'm just gonna post another thing here:

Block Diminish: Once you've blocked once, you have a -5% chance to block in the rest of the battle. This stacks 4 times and then resets.

Goldslayer1 would like this. :P


this should include -5% below the 4% default.
and yes i would. (it was suggested before to have diminishments on blocks. idk why they wouldn't take the idea)

anyway.
solutions
replace plasma armor with technician, make static the way it was before.

problem solved.

CH was fine before the plasma armor buff.

many others including myself managed 94%-95% on average with it.
and this was during the time period when tlm was the "all-mighty god"

hopefully the next balance update they dont do more mistakes.
cause CH right now is still on top (like i predicted)


EDIT:
woops double post.

Merged double post together, remember to use the edit button in future! ~Lycus

< Message edited by Lycus -- 3/3/2012 5:24:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 171
3/3/2012 5:17:19   
Ranloth
Banned


 That Malf would only lower down your Resistance directly, wouldn't touch stats at all so your Tech stays the same. Of course requirements would be put in place too, could slightly stop Str builds.
But looking at current Malf, even with Str build, at Lvl 10 it'll take away what, 30 Tech? That's for high Energy cost of 32 at Lvl 10, and while they cannot have as high Energy regen from Static now, it'd take them much longer to regen or would have to invest more in Energy. Somewhere along of Support requirements and about 40 at maxed Level would be good - Lvl 10 Malf with 40 Support takes away -35 Tec so it's roughly 8 Res already but it affects your skills, deflection rate, etc while this would not.
AQ Epic  Post #: 172
3/3/2012 5:28:19   
drinde
Member

BM Reboot:

Angry Spirit:
-Energy
-Fixed DMG Attack
-Improves with Support
-10% Defense Ignore
-30% EP Regain (Counting Defense)
-Replace Bezerker/FireBall


< Message edited by drinde -- 3/3/2012 5:34:53 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 173
3/3/2012 6:17:02   
Arevero
Member

Above all, Cybers should return to their original skill types, even if it means PA takeaway, and as a lot others have been saying, 'Passive RES/DEF makes us no more better than TLMs".

I'm happy with this original skill tree idea:

Heal Cheap EMP

Tech Static Matrix

Multi Malf Poison

PG Mass SA

Although i have 1 request, if we go back to that skill tree, i would also expect original skill types; static=55%

And if it's not a lot to ask (OPTIONAL) If we could have Mass back on its original percentage, its currently on 50%
Used to be 86% i think.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 174
3/3/2012 6:49:30   
The Anonymous
Member

(1)WITHOUT SMOKESCREEN, TACTICAL MERCS WILL BE NO BIG DIFFERENCE WITH MERCENARIES.

Why would we tactical mercenaries spend variums or credits to upgrade our class into a similar OLD CLASS???

WHAT IS YOUR LOGIC ?!?!?!?!

(2)Isn't taking a debuff skill away from a class AGAINST game rules?

People can read normal-sized text just fine. Please try to keep the use of large font sizes restricted as they can be an eye sore. ~LB

< Message edited by Lord Barrius -- 3/3/2012 11:31:21 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 175
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