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RE: Effect of no enhancements on balance, test!

 
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3/14/2012 13:09:23   
Remorse
Member

^ That wouldnt help balance at all,

Infact it would likely bring it apart further,

Having rares and promos shouldnt be a MAJOR advanatge.


I understand your reasons for not accepting my idea,

But Surely the rewards would be more then worth it.

How would players think of this as a money scam?? It would cut the cost of wepons dramatically making it easy to support the game long term.
Epic  Post #: 26
3/14/2012 13:16:36   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


Many players have spent close to hundreds getting extra stats from enhancements. Do you really think they would be happy that they lost all those stats, even if things were cheaper in the long run? So many people would be ripped off, even non variums who spent over 100k credits to get extra stats. It would be a huge disaster for ED if that were to happen.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
3/14/2012 13:22:37   
PD
Member
 

^^ The Enhancement system right now is the interim system. The future system... well... Don't need to explain that to you.
Post #: 28
3/14/2012 13:24:19   
Remorse
Member

@ ND
Wouldnt they all be like that soon anyway when payers realise that those wepons are gonna depreictae to nothing.

Better them suffering a little now, then waiting a few more years when players realise that even buying wepons conservitaley they still would have to buy around one full new set a year.
requiring enhamnets on another set of 4 peices of gear and possible energy/phiscal alternates making it around 8 peices of gear...


People arnt complaing now because enehamnets are relatively new, alot of people are still using there first set of enhanced gear.

But that will change and it will stay the same for the game exsistsance.

So disapoint people now or infante times in the future with the extremely fast depreciation rate of EDs gear.

People at some poitn are gonna have to trash there already enhanced gear, so why not now? and get it over and done with?
By cruel to be nice in a sence.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/14/2012 13:31:40 >
Epic  Post #: 29
3/14/2012 15:34:39   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


If enhancements remain, it will reach a peak where every stat they purchased will be less in value then the previous due to diminishing returns. This will be the honest fact. This is already taken place, and most are either blind to it, or just don't care.

My feeling is, if a personal bank was set up where every enhancement obtained was traded in credits for credit enhancements and varium for varium enhancements. It sounds extreme, but there is no way out of it.

By correcting this now, it will provide much easier balancing both for community and game for the future.

With Class-Change, this is another issue, but I feel if the game utilizes their sub accounts (house accounts) to transfer weapons, and mutated weapons would adjust if the sub account was a different class.

Players who house multiple quality accounts will provide more variety for this game instead of one player class-changing constantly for the advantage. Players who get bored with their current can use the house account system to create single class alts and use their mutate weapons.

If one player makes 1 quality account for each class, how awesome would that be. Game testing would be easier, and it would be a true community effort.

The game chose to expand the enhancement system and provide simple class change. And with these features, it compromised balance in this game. The gaming community should not brunt the burden for their decision.





< Message edited by JZaanu -- 3/14/2012 15:35:29 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 30
3/15/2012 5:29:30   
Remorse
Member

Anyone willing to do some testing with me?
If so meet me at oz on epic world 8


AFter testing a few builds.

I notice that the Tech mage dex supercharge build is no way near as oped as it is now.

And also Tank TLMs are far more balanced aswell.


Also the varium non varium gap was reduced ALOT!

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/15/2012 6:53:57 >
Epic  Post #: 31
3/15/2012 13:38:40   
Kidarmadyl
Member

I'm not sure if this has been said yet, but what if they added a new server to the game where enhancement don't exist, only on that server. When going back to other servers the enhancements are still there. maybe this could be tested, or will it be too much to implement? just a thought
Post #: 32
3/15/2012 13:53:28   
Stabilis
Member

That is a good suggestion for testing, RuneScape player!
AQ Epic  Post #: 33
3/16/2012 0:03:40   
drodrae
Member
 

My suggestion: Limit amount of enh. on each stat.

Example: U have 10 enhancements. You can place a max of 5 on any one stat, thus +5 Str +5 Dex.

At least it decreases stat abuse, doesn't remove enhancements.
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
3/16/2012 0:08:36   
Zeoth
Member

^
I'd agree to such an installment but it encourages focus to much for optimal output of stats
Post #: 35
3/16/2012 1:05:10   
Shadronica
Member

I am curious to know the results from this exercise. I would also like to know if luck still plays a major role in battles where there is no enhancements.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 36
3/16/2012 12:33:52   
Remorse
Member

^

I have included some results above.

With regaruds to luck, the amount of factors isnt reduced BUT,

Lucks Impact on individual battles is reduced.


The reason being is you cant exactly be a proper power build, You can get and have high dmagae but what makes powebuilds powerbuilds is that they have so much power that the opponenet is extremely limited in options even limited in things such as mana drains because it uses up turns. BUt without enahmnets powerbuild dont have such a limiting effect on the opponenet.


What I found with no enahments IS non attack skill are much easy to use, easier in the sence is they dont have such a turn wasting effect etc.

Also average battles are longer (not always a bad thing) in other words if you came against a lower level non varium in some cases you may actuly need to think to beat them which was good, Infact Versing alot of non variums was tuff for me when I was testing this. ( Having a few non varium alts Its sad to see that coming into battle with a high level means instant death but not without enhancemnets.

Im still hoping to verse someone using the STR bloodmages build and see what it is like.

When I get the results ill post it, as for the other top main op builds I have already tested.

-Remorse Less.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/16/2012 12:37:15 >
Epic  Post #: 37
3/16/2012 12:48:34   
Ranloth
Banned


I can be up for testing if you want Remorse. :)
I have Lvl 33 fully enhanced Support TM, Lvl 29 TLM with Armor + Gun enhanced (that's about +6-8 stats I think), Lvl 29 Merc with almost all items fully enhanced (Varium weapon + Armor, rest is non-Varium) and Lvl 28 CH with enhanced Armor (4 slots) and +4 slots enhanced for my Claws. :D
So yeah I got variety, mainly enhanced but not to an overkill of 30+ stats but most I have is on my Merc, being +13 or +14 IIRC as opposed to TM who has a bit over +30 stats via enhancements. :P

Feel free to PM me and I can help testing and there's variety so should also help whilst testing. ^_^
AQ Epic  Post #: 38
3/16/2012 12:57:55   
Remorse
Member

After testing with trans for a bit we come to an agreement that non enhancments battles had alot less attack preasure.

Meaning players werent constantly forced to atatck as much as possible to a point, and there was alot more focus on strategy, it made you think of the effect of you every move and future moves, something I miss doing xD


It was also slower battles but alot more fun and strategical.

Infact I would say the battles are arounf 2x more chalenging and stratigical, and 5x more fun :D (to me anyway)

< Message edited by Remorse -- 3/16/2012 13:51:12 >
Epic  Post #: 39
3/16/2012 14:01:07   
Ranloth
Banned


Yeah, different strategies got me like using double EMP which left me unable to heal when using enhancements and without them. Difference in power was noticeable as battle lasted much shorter and was more power-based so any move could leave you dead much sooner, while without enhancements it ended up in a bit more damage taken but still quite a high chance to win the fight *which I did twice* :D
Criticals were also nice, with Malf (-45 Tech IIRC) I managed to Crit 40 damage and twice in a row, with 85ish Support which sounds fair but twice in a row is serious luck and even same number. Although that was when Remorse used one EMP, double EMP crushed me and what could save me was luck but didn't happen which was great as I had to think to win not rely on luck. ^_^

Pretty much enjoyed the testing, fights were actually on a decent standard as my skills came in handy more than I thought and using things like DMatrix wasn't as risky as when fighting Str-build and them raging quicker and killing you. :3
AQ Epic  Post #: 40
3/16/2012 16:40:09   
Shadronica
Member

Thank you guys for the report.

Yes it would be nice to see some strategy brought back into the game where one has to think about their next move and utilise the skill tree more.

I am also not surprised about the luck element.

It would be nice to see the balance team spend an hour or two trying out just using enhancements on their armor and main weapon ... leaving the enhancements off their guns and auxillary. The complexion of the game takes a subtle change for the better IMO.

If bloated stats were not as high as they currently are we wouldn't see such a huge class build clone syndrome.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 41
3/16/2012 17:04:34   
Ranloth
Banned


To add onto it, luck is not a problem in the game. Surely it gets you killed but when I fought Remorse without enhancements, CH vs. TM, these Criticals gave me advantage and I had 2 at most throughout about 10 turn fight as it wasn't short either, so average was 20% of course but is lower as it was a bit over 10 turns and really fun overall.
Luck is the problem when enhancements come into play as power-build that abuses a stat gets too much boost to their Criticals/Rage and it takes it too far!

Ashari gave great way to solve the problem, another diminishing range at about 110+ which does solve the issue. It's +85 at the moment but I'd honestly give new one at 100+ already as even 100 Str gives you what - 22 base damage? That's a bit high and is easily possible to do with Str-boosts from weapons, mid-high Str and maybe few enhancements.

@PD
Mind telling us what'll be the new one? I heard bits before but really didn't caught a word how it will work or anything so if you have more information, please share it with us. :)
AQ Epic  Post #: 42
3/16/2012 17:12:29   
Shadronica
Member

I also agree with you Jzaanu about the diminishing returns. It has been a bone of contention as far as I am concerned too and no doubt to several other players who still have 2 brain cells left. hehe
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 43
3/16/2012 17:33:40   
One Winged Angel1357
Member


If you want some long term results from this test just look at my record on my varium merc I used an OP'ed build(of my own design and dang near beat Fay Bee while under her by five levels without armor, me not her) i use Varium gear and no enhancement while I haven't played in awhile the account was created while enhancements where around and i picked up Varium at lv 15, a low level by most standards, and even thought multiple balance updates my record turned out fairly sound.

And here is my record
1v1: 1437Wins 634Losses
2v2: 889Wins 541Loses
Jugg: 105Wins 63Losses

So playing without Enhancements can still lead to decent builds but as JZ pointed out even with up to date gear you can end up 10 levels behind your enemy from enhancements alone. Also in my calculations of the gap the biggest faction in the fact that Variums were 15 levels ahead in the first round of it is that most Variums fully enhance their gear while most F2P's can only get 4 to 5 slots filled, even though an active one should be able to get 8 no problem just by using the new PvP drops and putting two on each piece of gear
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 44
3/16/2012 18:15:03   
Hiddenblade
Member

i have a rough solution: add more stats less enhancement slots. for newer weapons add more stats better placement but less enhancement slots. eventually lower them from 10-8 slots pr weapon to 4-5. just a rough idea
Post #: 45
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