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Now I want you to ask questions if anything seems out of place before you make false assumptions as you would obviously be a thread skimmer without insight.

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   3k tech or 0 will give the same damage for all tech skills. No point in investing in tech after 45 unless I want to be a tank.

   
   
   • Yes, I said that stats do not improve skills for instance Technology will not improve Plasma Bolt. I would like to make Technology more useful if we go this path, for example Technology could improve the damage of ranged weapons. Key point: I never said that I would make Technology useless. I also said that Resistance can be stripped from Technology.
   
   

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   Tank builds: without stats improving their skills they fall behind in damage capabilities and drag battles out and will probably just lose in the end. No one goes tank.

   
   
   • I do not see any problems there, unfortunately. I am not sure why you should believe that at the same a player should have great defence, but also a great offence? Please note that I have stated that Defense and Resistance are made their own stats, so tanking can be possible if allocating those into a build.
   
   

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   No one is a tank so they either go 5 Focus or abuse Strength to get Primary damage and sidearm damage plus strength skills will still be affected by strength regardless.

   
   
   • What about Support? And unfortunately, because such melee skills use the Primary weapon, something is channelled. We can, however, make melee skills fixed damage instead of channelling via Strength.
   
   

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   Adding Strike cooldown will force Strength Builds to cease their builds.

   
   
   • It would? I have never seen that happen, yourself? I stand strong on balancing the weapons by bringing their DoT damage output per turn closer together. Otherwise Strength is and always will be the most exploited damage stat. Without blocks it becomes sheer obvious. We should be thankful for Defense and Resistance.
   
   

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   No strength builds, no tank builds. Guess what's left, 5 Focus builds.

   
   
   • I would like to see how they disappear. I am certain that I said that we have 8 stats with my full suggestion in play, so Strength and Def/Res are still here. You find that only Focus builds in EpicDuel is a problem, I do as well. If you read the first short paragraph made, diminishing in my perspective powerplays Focus. If both sides relish Focus, then I can observe that there is a problem. However, if you did even see what I suggested in my first post... you would have seen that Focus becomes it's own stat nested among Strength, Dexterity, Technology, and Support. If you did not see that then you have exacted what I call thread skimming. When you skim threads you do not see the poster's insight, thus making false accusations. So, with this new model of Focus, there is no longer a 5 Focus, nor a 4 Focus, nor 3 Focus, nor 2 Focus, nor 1 Focus. Instead my Focus is levelled by stat progressions as does the 4 basic stats. There will be numerous options to play with even with my suggestion.

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or one point, when diminishing arrives I would like to see Focus as it's own stat, so it would also kneel to the effects of diminishing.

For Strength, it possesses 2 weapons for diverse damage, no cooldowns either. I would like to see either cooldowns on Strike or Sidearms move to another stat. This slows the damage down.

For Support, I would like to see it stripped of the chance (luck) effects such as critical hits or first turn. In turn Support can have it's damage abilities improved, possibly Support can have the Sidearm if Strike never obtains a cooldown. I would like to see the chance effects moved onto their own stat, Luck as a new stat to manage the chance effects individually without harming Support.

For Dexterity and Technology, I would like to see the defense effects (Defense and Resistance) split from Dexterity and Technology as their own stats as it is easier to control defense and offense when they are separated (Dexterity and Technology also improve attack skills).

I would take away stat requirements and adjust the stat progressions table to solve imbalance problems concerning the stats. I view stat requirements to bandaid hidden core problems in the ways stats work themselves.

Lastly I would like to see stat improving skills removed as an attribute of skills. Stats and skills should be separate. Joining everything together is pretty much working everything as one god stat.

Now we have 8 stats and everything is easier to control. Yeah, this is quite a bit of work, but what do you have to offer? Bandaids like stat requirements clearly do not solve the core problem. Why do I say this?... Why do we still have balance problems revolving around stats right now? Loopholes.

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I would like to see either cooldowns on Strike or Sidearms move to another stat.

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   If we split stats from skills + split dext and tech from def and res + split focus from other stats + made Luck a full chance stat = dext useless. If we don't make Luck a full chance stat (as I think you suggested, correct me if you didn't), Dext would only be useful for block chance.

   
   
   • I have gone in depth elsewhere (specifically the Balance Discussion) about the mechanics of this suggested layout; I have not stated all I have here, but if I could I would make Dexterity a pure accuracy stat. Dexterity would determine the chance to connect for Primaries and ranged weapons (excluding Robots). Dexterity would determine the chance to block and deflect/dodge as well. Aside from accuracy I have not given the stat any other practical use.
   
   

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   No cool down for strike but I would move sidearm to another stat as well. Moving to Support would be fine unless we strip Dext of its attributes as I said above

   
   
   • I am open for Strength to be balanced by either adding cooldown or extracting Sidearms, both do not have to occur, but I am fine with just one of the suggestions taking place, as you have conceded to letting the Sidearm move. The reason I said Strike could use cooldown, is because of the huge difference in DoT when comparing Primaries to identical ranged weapons.
   
   

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   I would not split skills and stats but we could make scaling uneven someway.
   Take a BM for example: Strength affects primary (=Berzerker), gun and skill (Fireball). They all scale up at the same STR level what if they didn't ? What if, for example, after 82 STR you'd need to increase up to 87 to increase primary damage but to 88 for skill damage (fireball) and 89 for gun damage ? To have all of them increased 1 point, +2 stat points would need to be invested.
   Yes, there would be a need for different stat progression tables depending on what would be affected by it but that could help we take care of the excess points available

   
   
   • This is a form of diminishing, or also known as adjusting the stat progressions. I am keen to agree with adjusting the table as I find that the equivalence between 1 stat point for offence does not equal 1 stat point for defence. I would like to change stat progressions so that defence can be invested in to cancel out an investment in offence if the stat numbers are the same. This would be a core sign of imbalance, at the roots of EpicDuel. A huge issue, when you look at it, 20 Strength may be equal to 20 Dexterity (nearly), but considering today's equipment, the one with 20 Strength may possess a 35 damage Primary whereas the one with 20 Dexterity may possess an armour with 10 points of shielding. 35 - 10 is 25, therefor the statistcal difference between offence and defence is way off. This is troubling.

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   About creating the new stat: "Luck", I fear this may cause big problems seeing as it could be COMPLETELY abused to have insane advantages! A build being able to deflect/block/ and critical with good probability is something to be feared.

   
   
   • Wait! I know controlling solely luck in a stat may be bad, even turned away from most players, but the thing we have to consider are statistical limits. Limits are placed everywhere, and that is a good thing to stop stat exploits. For Luck, if we compare it to stat progressions, there is no advantage past a certain given value, such as Strength and Support not improving past 165. We can do the same for Luck. For an example, at the maximum given stat points, chance to go critical will not exceed 33%. Good news though, is that we have similar thresholds in play for luck already. One such example that we currently have is that deflection chances will not exceed 25%.
   
   

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   Your suggestion for DEX and TECH is also flawed as this would kill tank builds. People will either have to adopt a build with high strength and terrible defenses or a tank build with good defenses but terrible offense; and the existence of RAGE doesn't favor tank builds.

   
   
   • Killing tank builds? From your point that you have given I do not see any evidence of how tanks become obliterated. What you said was that people would require high Strength or high defences, but nothing about tanks being destroyed. A tank player is someone who can defend from high damage and still have more damage output than the enemy. From what I suggested and you pointed out, there is still the option to tank as simply a player would be required to allocate points to, for example, Strength Defense and Resistance, to be able to damage and take minimal damage. The weakness is that there is no weapon accuracy (from Dexterity), but also because the variability for damage is gone because it restricts the tank to only Primary damage than can easily be defended against by the matching element, Defense or Resistance... as seen in Defense Matrix or Energy Shield to reduce incoming damage to the minimum.
   
   

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   About taking away stat requirements: I'm not sure. It could open up new builds; but there was a time when there weren't stat requirements and I'm sure they placed them for a reason, right?

   
   
   • Stat requirements became more and more favourable prior to Focus. When Focus came, stat requirements slowed down but staff continued to implement them. They did this because they did not want to suffer Focus builds by making an item or skill requirement past 46 points, hindering the stat point usage of Focus players who have few extra points to spend after achieving the fifth Focus. After a period of hardship, EpicDuel will break when stat requirements on every little thing restrict players to Focus without options. And the problem is because stats themselves are broken, not the players exploiting them.
   
   

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   I can't agree with your last suggestion as it takes some diversity away from build making, even tho today is all mostly about strength. Maybe this would help tank builds as they don't have to dedicate stats or anything to skills; but this seems to cause more cons than pros.

   
   
   • Can you give me something to work with? Thanks. If it has many cons, I need to know, I am open to repair my suggestions if loopholes are obvious or imbalances are found.

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You move sidearms to dex then high dex builds have incredible defenses, high chance to block, and now a weapon.
You move it to technology then TMs will just gun, plasma bolt, plasma rain, gun, plasma bolt etc so they will have 3 powerful attacks that are unblockable, they also have high resistance and a high chance to deflect also.
You move it to support then support gets two weapons, a chance to crit, a chance to go first and faster rage.

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If you remove Gun damage from strength, then that stat will have the lowest benefits of all the other stats. What must be changed is how "Strike" works. I'm more inclined to agree with Depressed Void's idea of giving strike a cooldown, as it is the most simple and effective method to weaken strength builds. However, I am concerned as to how this will affect non-strength builds.

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About creating the new stat: "Luck", I fear this may cause big problems seeing as it could be COMPLETELY abused to have insane advantages! A build being able to deflect/block/ and critical with good probability is something to be feared.

Wait! I know controlling solely luck in a stat may be bad, even turned away from most players, but the thing we have to consider are statistical limits. Limits are placed everywhere, and that is a good thing to stop stat exploits. For Luck, if we compare it to stat progressions, there is no advantage past a certain given value, such as Strength and Support not improving past 165. We can do the same for Luck. For an example, at the maximum given stat points, chance to go critical will not exceed 33%. Good news though, is that we have similar thresholds in play for luck already. One such example that we currently have is that deflection chances will not exceed 25%.

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Your suggestion for DEX and TECH is also flawed as this would kill tank builds. People will either have to adopt a build with high strength and terrible defenses or a tank build with good defenses but terrible offense; and the existence of RAGE doesn't favor tank builds.

Killing tank builds? From your point that you have given I do not see any evidence of how tanks become obliterated. What you said was that people would require high Strength or high defenses, but nothing about tanks being destroyed. A tank player is someone who can defend from high damage and still have more damage output than the enemy. From what I suggested and you pointed out, there is still the option to tank as simply a player would be required to allocate points to, for example, Strength Defense and Resistance, to be able to damage and take minimal damage. The weakness is that there is no weapon accuracy (from Dexterity), but also because the variability for damage is gone because it restricts the tank to only Primary damage than can easily be defended against by the matching element, Defense or Resistance... as seen in Defense Matrix or Energy Shield to reduce incoming damage to the minimum.

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About taking away stat requirements: I'm not sure. It could open up new builds; but there was a time when there weren't stat requirements and I'm sure they placed them for a reason, right?

Stat requirements became more and more favourable prior to Focus. When Focus came, stat requirements slowed down but staff continued to implement them. They did this because they did not want to suffer Focus builds by making an item or skill requirement past 46 points, hindering the stat point usage of Focus players who have few extra points to spend after achieving the fifth Focus. After a period of hardship, EpicDuel will break when stat requirements on every little thing restrict players to Focus without options. And the problem is because stats themselves are broken, not the players exploiting them.

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I can't agree with your last suggestion as it takes some diversity away from build making, even tho today is all mostly about strength. Maybe this would help tank builds as they don't have to dedicate stats or anything to skills; but this seems to cause more cons than pros.

Can you give me something to work with? Thanks. If it has many cons, I need to know, I am open to repair my suggestions if loopholes are obvious or imbalances are found.

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For Support, I would like to see it stripped of the chance (luck) effects such as critical hits or first turn. In turn Support can have it's damage abilities improved, possibly Support can have the Sidearm if Strike never obtains a cooldown. I would like to see the chance effects moved onto their own stat, Luck as a new stat to manage the chance effects individually without harming Support.