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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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4/24/2012 6:18:42   
ngshuyi94
Member

@ Hun

ONE GIANT EPIC FACEPALM

If u compared Bunker Buster and Plasma cannon, they are really similar things. They improve with technology, their damage scale by the same amount, they cost the same, they have the same crit chance, and they ignore the same amount of defense and resistance. They are LINKED. The reason why the multis are not the same is because they improve with different things, and have different effects, i dont think that i have to elaborate, u can figure it out urself, hopefully.

According to the information i get from the wiki, a critical hit ignores 50% of the opponents' defense/resistance. Therefore, since bunker and plasma both ignores an additional 20%, that makes a total of 70%.

< Message edited by ngshuyi94 -- 4/24/2012 6:19:30 >

_____________________________

Seven Stars - Seven Heaven
My Character Webpage! =D
http://epicduel.artix.com/charpage.asp?id=ngshuyi

Epic  Post #: 301
4/24/2012 6:37:00   
SylvanElf
Member
 

 Here's an idea that may work to help balance, not from class design, but from the players' side. It would allow for the player community to collectively have an effect upon what classes it deems too superior, but not too much.

Implement a simple fight filter under options; the filter allows each player to select One and only One class to block from having to fight.
This way, if one class or build became super dominant like STR BM is now, every player has the option to opt out of fighting against that class.
It'd a be a natural incentive not to go with the flow of everyone else, knowing that ppl will start to opt out of fighting you.

I realize that not all players of a certain class use the abusive builds that most of their class is, so when the fight matcher would have matched say
a CH versus a player who has selected CH as the class to opt out of, both players receive 1/3 a win (totals would be rounded up) and 1/3 the fight rewards that a win would have.
It's still a reward, but only part of what a win would have been, discouraging mass class changes like have happened in the past, because it makes it in everyone's best interest NOT to have one dominant class.
I think that class populations would even out quite a bit more if this was implemented.

It's a player-by-player choice, so it's not like these impasse fights would occur all the time, but enough to discourage large imbalances.
I know some ppl really dislike fighting TLM tanks, so even now when BMs are ruling, some may opt out of fighting TLMs instead.
I'd hope the net result would be weaker classes rarely getting the impasse fights, and (generally accepted) OP classes getting them more often with the consequent lesser reward.

This is a serious suggestion. Serious consideration and analyzation of the idea would be awesome!
Post #: 302
4/24/2012 6:37:15   
Ranloth
Banned


 Linked NOT the same Hun. The same means what you said, LINKED means the same but changed. Stop embarrassing yourself.
You don't read any of our posts as noted with your knowledge, we explain it and you ignore. Stop being ignorant.

Stop posting false information as this is not the place nor is allowed. Mercs are weak due to the builds? Why do they not stand a chance though? Goony is a Merc, experienced at that and you claim we're crap? Before you judge a class, show me how it's not UP.
You CANNOT! Balance Tracker proves it.
AQ Epic  Post #: 303
4/24/2012 6:41:57   
drinde
Member

How is my idea, Trans. P'raps it'll calm you down. :P
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 304
4/24/2012 6:53:46   
Ranloth
Banned


 Calm me down? No. Spreading false information needs to be stopped and he isn't even checking what we write which has correct information.

Idea is good but you can simply lower down %s and make it scaled by Focus. I wrote about it on 1st page in my post. Feedback appreciated. :3
AQ Epic  Post #: 305
4/24/2012 7:08:09   
PivotalDisorder
Member

if Hun Kingq can show a grasp of game mechanics IN HIS BALANCE TOPIC POSTS then we are likely to get off his back, but right now
he is posting misinformation at best, lies at worst and doesn't seem to want to actually learn why he is completely wrong EVERYTIME.

How many times have we got to walk Hun Kingq through the problem, only for him to deny it, post all new make believe problems and
flame the people not only trying to help him, but to help the community and reduce the time wasted by staff reading this nonsense.

Hun Kingq: I beg you stop posting in the balance topic while you do not fully understand how the game works. pages and pages are
wasted by your posts, the arguments they cause, the explanations as to why your wrong and then your flaming and denial.

PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF BALANCE, STOP POSTING HERE
Post #: 306
4/24/2012 7:10:29   
gangster a
Member

^ then he will reply to you creating another argument he doesnt like to back down it will probably go on forever.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 307
4/24/2012 7:11:58   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

it will probably go on forever


And that is how my cousin stopped his programming course in college by just 1 week.
Epic  Post #: 308
4/24/2012 7:15:15   
gangster a
Member

^ umm whats that got to do with Hun? lol 1 week though :O
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 309
4/24/2012 8:04:31   
Arevero
Member

@Hun

If you do not like Bunk's 'crit often-ness' then clearly you want a NERF. And PC and BB is DEFINITELY LINKED, even a new player would know that as soon as they see both skills. Hun, you need to understand the things we are trying to achieve here, not by nerfing others and defending your own forever, when we first stated a BM nerf, you posted as soon as that idea came up, then you also complained about Plasma statistics with Reflex, now you go on about Bunk Buster, a CRUCIAL Merc skill, it's the only skill that doesn't require that much EP and can crit/ dmg/ unblockable. Now like i said if you do not want Bunk to crit that often, THEN CHANGE IT INTO AN EP-DRAIN SKILL.

Mercs need the ability to regain EP, i can't live with so much skills, that can be destroyed when not even used. People like G00NY, Illuminator, i have fought all of them, their builds have all sorts of skills, BUT NOT EVEN 60% WERE USED, not to mention that they put a lot of effort into Merc builds. What we are trying here is to make the best for all classes, and BMs, CHs, Mercs all need a fix. Your class will not be wasted 900var/50k creds.



@Sylvan

Problem is, that it might limit and hinder creativeness hence diversity. The whole point of EpicDuel is meant to be Epic, loss or wins, both are good. EXCEPT when people win ALL the time which abuses the fact that we hate;OPness. It's a good suggestion, but from time to time, blocking classes could lead to high win % for the player. Say if a player loses easily to Bounty, then block it, and would win most of the time. good suggestion though, perhaps a little fix needs to be added.

@Trans and Drinde

Nice idea, improving by 5-focus would probably stop STR spammage of Azrael, and Tank-age from Assault/Rusty. Then again, Drinde's idea is also alright, maybe still lower the effect to say 60%. Assault isn't that more OPed so probably 70%. Nice thoughts still :D


P.S
Anyone know where Depressed has gone 2? Haven't seen him post for a while, and he usually makes massive ones, just curious.

< Message edited by Arevero -- 4/24/2012 8:06:14 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 310
4/24/2012 8:51:03   
Ranloth
Banned


 Drinde's idea has a potential but only problem is that abusers with Focus 1 or 2 still get the same out of Bots like Azrael or Assault as Focus 4 and 5 which isn't fair. Making it scaled by Focus would help to stop it.
We could say players have at least Focus 3 due to requirements then they'd get still around 40%-50% debuff which isn't a lot but enough to make a difference. Having it at fixed 80% makes nerfers and buffers useless and having 40-50% gives you still use of the nerfer/buffer. ^^ Thanks either way!
AQ Epic  Post #: 311
4/24/2012 9:33:01   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Just wanna say I love Sylvan Elfs idea :) needs some work but would be awesome for shutting out class hopping power hungry scrubs players

big problem I see with it is resentment though, when your favourite class becomes almost unplayable due to them being made OP overnight.
Post #: 312
4/24/2012 14:06:00   
Luna_moonraider
Member

Off topic:
guys just ignore hun king he is in his own world where merc are oped and bm are super uped. simple solution to him is to click the blocky block block and the problem would be gone. XD. hun king clearly does not know anything about balance so just let him dream and stay in his "imaginary" world.

On topic:

TLM

well imho tlms should at least get their technician back or at least replace the field commander with intimidate. poison grenade should get a stat requirement of some sort yes i know it is at tier 4 but it is kinda annoying seeing that bh/ch have a weaker poison and they have stat requirements on the poison.

Mages

the swap of plasma rain to dex and super charge to tech is kinda pointless. yes it slowed down mages but mages at high lvls were not affected at all only low lvl mages were affected by this change. imho plasma bolt should get back its str requirement.

Blood mages

well str blood mages are increasing everywhere yes even in 2v2 we can find a str blood mage. Imho replacing zerk with asim is way better compared to the suggested idea for the devs of replacing it with bludgeon. 1) asim has a staff requirement. 2)a energy drain/gain would certainly help Bm so that they can use other builds rather than pure all out brute force str build.

Mercs

new passive is not very helpful in 1v1( imho it is very very useful in 2v2/jugs) as it can only work well if u vs a tank and most 1v1ner now a days use either str bm,str bh or dex ch. most players prefer fast kills so str bm and bh are more common in 1v1.

Bh

Imho the most balanced class is bh other than to many stat requirements restricting them. most of their skill have stat requirements(e.g poison has requirements for no reason) and it can be annoying sometimes.

CH

basically most ch are forced to use either a tank build or a tank build. basically most ch are being forced into a tank build since they introduced plasma armor.emp is an issue as they have it at tier 1 the can easy max it out and all ch have an energy drain no mater what their build is. IMHO emp should be moved to 2nd tier or 3rd tier this is to make
it fair as merc/tlm atom is tier 4,mages asim is tier 4 and bh emp is tier 2. either that or emp should be removed from a ch skill tree and replace it with a weaker energy drain/ new skill maybe a skill like frost.



_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 313
4/24/2012 15:30:52   
Ranloth
Banned


 :O Haven't seen you around lately Luna, welcome back! :3

I'll agree with most of your post as well, short but well written and backed up. Only about TM, what would you think if Reroute got its requirement changed from Tech to Support and SC from Tech to Strength? As of now, we can do Tech build without being penalized due to Reroute using Tech, SC using Dex and Plasma using none so we focus on 2 stats, a lot of HP and some Energy. So yes, they'd need to drop their abusive Tech down to meet requirements on Str and Support for Caster build to use it which prevents abuse. Malf has Str requirement already so wouldn't kill on SC because you could do Malf+SC build and you would train Str either way. ^_^
And Str requirement on Plasma would require one on Fireball as well, that'd be probably Support which is good idea but we must think about low Level players as well.. >.<

TLMs should get Technican back, I agree. But FC could stay - I seen players using it and it's quite good, what kills it is Azrael Bot but every time new promo comes out, players switch to new Bot so it could stay. Intimidate would be still debuffed by Assault Bot which is owned by majority of F2P and some Varium players. I won't mind either, I own a TLM so could be fun! ;D And Poison is also right, would be fair OR take off requirement from BHs. I'd go for latter probably.

Tell me what you think about my TM suggestion if you have time. :3
AQ Epic  Post #: 314
4/24/2012 17:52:38   
Whirlwindstorm2
Member

As a level 34 mercenary, I am using a bunker buster build. And I can confirm that it definitely does not crit too much, if anything the opposite.
Post #: 315
4/24/2012 18:05:28   
Ranloth
Banned


 Took it just few mins ago for sake of Hun posting about his "bugs": http://i46.tinypic.com/m9y338.png
Does that look like 100% Crit? I do use my data, I don't ask other people to give it to me because I want to prove my point or rather counter your imaginary point. I'd have added another screenshot as I got killed by raged Bunker but it didn't Crit but with no screenshot, I may not be able to prove it. Above should be enough though. ;)
AQ Epic  Post #: 316
4/24/2012 18:53:49   
liy010
Member

@Luna I agree that the EMP could be Weaker but not Frost. Every time I get Frost, it is completely useless (At times it did win me a battle with Reroute Classes but that's another story) because they enemy just drains their EP instantly. EMP is known for taking EP away quick and efficiently so lets leave it at that ;)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 317
4/24/2012 19:51:37   
Joe10112
Member

CH are forced to tank now, and it's boring. I became a CH because it was fun, not to just be a tank and stuff.

Anyway, I'm in favor of removing PA and replacing with Technician or E. Shield.

I am NOT in favor of nerfing EMP. EMP is fine in my opinion, battles still are battles albeit a little longer now. Completely fair. You still have EP left to use skills on me and such, I feel it's very fair. I see EMPs in the 30s and that's it, never seen a 40+ emp. Convince me, I'm still not convined why EMP needs to be nerfed.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 318
4/24/2012 20:18:17   
rayniedays56
Member

Supported with the removing of PA, not supported with the removing of EMP...


WHY?


Tech Mage with MAX reroute, 112 health and over 100 EP...


We use EMP to end the massive energy that he will gain.


Blood Mage with 100+ strength...

Must i go any further on this issue?


BH with high strength/high massacre. EMP allows a way to counter strength


MERC with extreme tech and maxed bunker plus 100 EP. once more, it counters abusive skills and stats


Tact Mercs with Poison. Really, if you can stop the poison, go for it.


Cybers with High Strength and High Massacre. Once more, a way to counter strength abusive stats.



I admit I use a High EMP drain. And it is VERY good to use against so called "op" classes.


Use a 43 EMP on a Strength BM and watch them crumble (yes Joe, my EMP is above 40 :D)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 319
4/24/2012 20:25:44   
Retrosaur
Member
 

 Hun is just a failtroll who insists on ticking people off. Like Trans. Unfortunately.
AQW Epic  Post #: 320
4/25/2012 6:31:51   
sha 2nd mage
Member

“It’s my personal view”

I don’t understand why everybody complains about the balance issue in the game. There should be slight Imbalance in every class or else there is no fun in playing.

Ed has progressed a lot since I started playing and I feel new stuff in the game will bring more balance issue

*Enhancements * and *bots* are the root of this issue.

I have a lot to say but kinda lazy


_____________________________
Epic  Post #: 321
4/25/2012 9:50:19   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@Raynieday: I think you accidentally gave the best argument for nerfing EMP, at least on CH.

CH with EMP get to tank [Plasma Armour and Defence Matrix], energy regain [Static Charge], improved chance to block [high dex and/or Shadowarts],
inproved chance to deflect and not be deflected [Malfunction] and can also take 25-45 energy for the cost of one Static Charge. one cyber hunter build
is not supposed to be the answer to every other build in the game, and right now that is exactly what is.
Post #: 322
4/25/2012 11:03:55   
Gjappy
Member

If the players with varium items and the upgraded classes are much overpowered in comparison to the players that don't have that much varium I don't think there is a balance.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 323
4/25/2012 11:05:59   
  Digital X

Beep Beep! ArchKnight AQ / ED


 @Gjappy, that is true, but with the release of higher level, better statted(word?) equipment the gap is slowly closing. It just takes time, but will get there eventually.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 324
4/25/2012 11:34:20   
frogbones
Banned


 @ Pivotal:

Finally someone else sees the light. Take away EMP from Cyber and they will be balanced. Right now, CH is stupid easy to get wins. Like Blood Mage, it's a simpleton class that yields a high win percentage. No thought required, no build variety.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 325
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