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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

 
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5/1/2012 10:58:14   
zion
Member

@Goony
You are 100% right about intimidate - it is a situational debuff at best. Maybe they could just change the coding to nerf the weapon damage (with different numbers of course)?
There is no reason for BM to have intimidate - if it replaced by assimilation, I think BM becomes a balanced class (albeit in need of a new end-move).
--Noiz
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 676
5/1/2012 11:24:37   
Ranloth
Banned


Easy solution for CHs; if keep PA or take it out:
Make in-game pool for either CHs or everyone where they could vote OR link them to Forum via there and give us a choice. Whichever gets most votes wins, but the other side would be majorly angry if PA was to leave so even if it's for balance, you people who post here aren't only CHs who don't want PA but some do want to keep it so you cannot say it's best choice for CHs as it's few people versus at least hundreds or thousands maybe?


< Message edited by Trans -- 5/1/2012 11:36:07 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 677
5/1/2012 11:30:05   
King Helios
Member

^Do you mean make or mage?
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 678
5/1/2012 11:36:43   
Ranloth
Banned


Edited it.. Such a silly typo as I was thinking about something else. xD Thanks for noticing. :P
AQ Epic  Post #: 679
5/1/2012 11:53:59   
Stabilis
Member

╫╬╩╥CYBER HUNTER╥╩╬╫

Blue Ruin

Assail an enemy with 2 spinning, devastating strikes with the held Primary weapon (the player using Blue Ruin is charged with blue plasma).

Energy Required:

Level 1: 14
Level 2: 16
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 20
Level 5: 22
Level 6: 24
Level 7: 26
Level 8: 28
Level 9: 30
Level 10: 32

Damage Progressions:

Level 1: 23% more damage
Level 2: 26% more damage
Level 3: 29% more damage
Level 4: 32% more damage
Level 5: 35% more damage
Level 6: 38% more damage
Level 7: 41% more damage
Level 8: 44% more damage
Level 9: 47% more damage
Level 10: 50% more damage

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: 1
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2

Threaten: Decreases the Support of the selected target.

Energy Required:
Level 1: 10
Level 2: 12
Level 3: 14
Level 4: 16
Level 5: 18
Level 6: 20
Level 7: 22
Level 8: 24
Level 9: 26
Level 10: 28
Weapon Required: None
Stat: None
Level Required: 1
Improves With: Technology (+1 Support at 20 Technology; +1 Support per 4 Technology after)
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 4 Turns
Duration: 4 Turns
Usage: Does not apply to Strike

Static Charge: Static Charge currently improves Primary weapon damage + Strength damage. This current model can only be fully utilized by Strength users and not from other types and sorts of users of the Cyber Hunter class, and that is not something of equal opportunity, especially when we love Static Charge so much, it is a core skill of our skill tree. It has become a high priority to me now to suggest an edit to Static Charge to restore the class to a previously simpler, more hardy class. So here it is:

Static Charge: A percentage of your Primary weapon's damage is added to your energy bank in a Strike. Energy restoration never fails, however the Strike itself is blockable.

Energy Required: 0 (No Cost)

Conversion:
Level 1: 33% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 2: 36% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 3: 39% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 4: 42% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 5: 45% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 6: 48% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 7: 51% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 8: 54% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 9: 57% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy
Level 10: 60% of the Primary Weapon's Damage to Energy

Weapon Required: None
Stat Required: None
Level Required: 2
Improves With: None
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 4

Tactics: Increases the Support of the selected target.

Energy Required:
Level 1: 16
Level 2: 17
Level 3: 18
Level 4: 19
Level 5: 20
Level 6: 21
Level 7: 22
Level 8: 23
Level 9: 24
Level 10: 25
Weapon Required: None
Stat: None
Level Required: 5
Improves With: Strength (+1 Support at 20 Strength; +1 Support per 4 Strength after)
Warm Up: 0
Cool Down: 2


I will not be able to use the forums for an hour, any suggestions?
AQ Epic  Post #: 680
5/1/2012 11:57:55   
PivotalDisorder
Member

@Arevero: I agree, they really dropped the ball with Plasma Armour being introduced as their new passive. I would rather of had
the original CH and get laughed at for picking the worst evolved class, than play a ridiculously uncreative class that everyone hates
to fight against now. sometimes you just gotta admit you made a mistake and undo it. until that day, my 2 CH gather dust on shelf.

they were not OP at all, even though they could loop multi and massacre etc, technician just didn't allow them to tank like PA does
and the energy from Static Charge was fun to use without most fights digressing into a tanking EMP looping-extravaganza.

The game is supposed to be fun, they literally drained all the fun out of CH just to justify their Passive armour. why?
Post #: 681
5/1/2012 16:59:39   
Joe10112
Member

First of all, congrats G00ny! New mod! Hope to see you around.

Second of all, Depressed, you've posted your idea like 4 times already >.> I already made some comments. Static charge does NOT need to be moved to 4 turn cooldown.

Guys, sorry if I'm being slow here, but I still don't get why you guys don't like Technician instead of PA. Spend less points into Technician, gain +Technology equal to at lesat 11 resistance (with decent dex and mid-high level Technician). So you save skill points, buff your resistance (anti-malfunction basically). Isn't that BETTER for CH, and takes away the Plasma Armor problem?

And what about switching Deadly Aim from BM to Shadow Arts from CH, and rework CH such that it gives +% chance to connect? I suggested it many times but didn't get many comments.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 682
5/1/2012 17:09:54   
Stabilis
Member

Thank you for reminding me of your forgotten posts, I have yet to make replies for them.
AQ Epic  Post #: 683
5/1/2012 17:11:29   
Calogero
Member

reason I don't like Technician Back is that it would synergize again with EMP....

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 684
5/1/2012 17:18:43   
Ranloth
Banned


Meanie, Joe.. I did comment but to someone else's reply but same topic.. D:

quote:

No SA to BMs. Don't even care as this skill will be useless to BMs. Khalidion suggested Aux version of DA for BMs which seems much better and lowers their damage anyway (Str + Gun + DA. Seen Support BM ever? No? Exactly. ;)

Besides SA is fine for CHs if it stays with Plasma. I suggested small chance to Connect as well to buff up SA for BHs and CHs so I think DA wouldn't be needed even with old skill tree which was balanced. DA is more powerful than SA and if old CH was balanced, DA could make it a bit too strong again which could end up in nerfs again (please, no nerfs)..

But if Lycus said already that many players wouldn't like losing PA, and it's only few people on Forum who support it, we cannot speak for the majority and ignore other people so this isn't that feasible and frogbones already said, there's no hope of PA being taken away. Hence why we should suggest how to improve CHs in a creative way, perhaps EVEN suggesting how passive Armors should work - decaying after few turns, maybe passive cost of HP/EP but small one and Armor stops working if not enough EP (this would be bad idea to be made for Hybrid Armor of Mercs but if it could be avoided then fine because CHs and TLMs can get Energy back), or something else. If we cannot get rid of the skill, perhaps let's suggest how to change it to be more creative/less OP?
AQ Epic  Post #: 685
5/1/2012 17:32:18   
Zeoth
Member

^
Improve Passive Armors? Their a rather badly formed idea in itself. Personally it should be only mercenaries should have it and tact mercs get def matrix and CHs get technician back or a revamped energy shield that doesn't improve with support.

< Message edited by Zeoth -- 5/1/2012 17:33:30 >
Post #: 686
5/1/2012 17:41:54   
Ranloth
Banned


Improve Passive Armors as in revamp, not give them additional power on top of what they have now.. -.-
AQ Epic  Post #: 687
5/1/2012 17:57:20   
Stabilis
Member

Suggestion, if some skills cannot and absolutely will not be removed (still without a good reason to not remove any skills), I propose that more skills get added to the current total, 13+ skills per class instead of just 12. Then, if Energy Shield does just as well as that Mercenary skill Plasma Armour after battle tracking as testing, then we can get rid of Plasma Armour and get back to strategy and more meaningful battles.
AQ Epic  Post #: 688
5/1/2012 18:05:13   
PivotalDisorder
Member

quote:

But if Lycus said already that many players wouldn't like losing PA, and it's only few people on Forum who support it,

if they introduced a free weapon that did 10,000 damage each hit, almost everyone would use it. tells me all I need to know about "many players".
we take the time and put in the effort here, because the "many" follow the path of least resistance and offer nothing but cloned builds and self importance.
you know who rules nations? is it the many who either have no clue or don't care, or the few who dedicate themselves to the betterment of everyone else?

oh and most importantly, guess what the ED Staff are....THE FEW!

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 5/1/2012 18:07:21 >
Post #: 689
5/1/2012 18:08:11   
Zeoth
Member

@Trans
Yea I know you meant revamp, it's all the same to me they shouldn't exist. And Old CHs were considered underpowered somehow...... DA would perfectly balance them. And SA with connect chance would def help BMs.
Post #: 690
5/1/2012 18:14:49   
Ranloth
Banned


I assume you speak from CH perspective about taking out DA for mere luck skill which is highly unreliable? Aux DA would be better for them due to cooldown which Aux has and fact of how useless Support BMs are (if they exist).. xD
Old CHs were considered underpowered because TLMs were rulling. At that time, I could've said that TMs were underpowered too but when compared to TLMs which were the majority, every class was UP. Things have changed since then so giving a major buff wouldn't be wise move and I detest taking skills from other classes and paste them into others. Why not something unique or keep SA but give it a buff? It'd help CHs with their SC which is main source of Energy, no?
AQ Epic  Post #: 691
5/1/2012 18:21:48   
PivotalDisorder
Member

CH was a thinking mans class, like Mage. now your build makes itself, bar a few skill points to add "variety".

I have already suggested my changes for them so I will stop posting about them, especially as they are not gonna be changed at all. not even sure
why anyone is discussing Cyber Hunters, staff already made their mind up, Cyber is a fair and balanced class and we just gotta evolve or die right.


Tech Mage
Still needs a requirement on Plasma bolt :) ty
Post #: 692
5/1/2012 18:33:27   
Zeoth
Member

Well I've heard enough about Chs. I'll just let my main gather dust until such a time creativity returns to the class. Anyways on to TM. Plasma bolt NEEDS I repeat NEEDS its old str req. I'm using a tech caster with founder armor and I'm still destroying, and my energy is pretty low.
Post #: 693
5/1/2012 18:49:23   
Joe10112
Member

I like how we've discussed and Staff hasn't posted much. DF/MQ Staff are much more connected with the players >.>

I mean really. Apparently the only CH builds out there are tanks, and it's boring. Heck, I'm not sure why I play ED any more. My build it so boring. Tank tank tank now. Give it some life, change some stuff around CH. And BM? It was STR STR STR and I bet it was boring clicking "Gun, Firebolt, Zerker, Gun" over and over each battle...

Really, it's boring as a CH currently for me. I switched because Static Charge was new, there was Plasma Armor and with Static Charge's old regain, it was fun with battles. Now with miniscule regain, it's boring because builds are now fixed to tank.

But what about my long post on the Synergy of the Skill Trees? CH has no two unblockable damaging skills that improve with the same thing. Here's where I propse:

Swap Venom Strike and Plasma Grenade, then swap Malfunction and Plasma Grenade. (Plasma Grenade is now where Malf used to be, Malf is now where Venom was, Venom is now where Plasma Grenade was).

Buff Venom Strike's damage, or lower the EP cost and make it inflict 80% of normal damage instead of 70%.

Buff the (damaging) grenades in the Hunters (BH Stun Grenade, CH Plasma Grenade) by like 10 damage each, to match Overload. Then make Plasma Grenade improve with DEX.

This way, we are still hunters, agile and lithe (skills improve with dex), and since we are Cyber, we attack with Energy attacks mostly (Plasma Grenade and Multi-Shot, both improving with DEX).

Heck instead of Defense Matrix I'd love to get Reflex Boost and have RB improve with Technology. And then swap Plasma Armor with either Technician or E. Shield.

Now THAT would be fun. Nah but I'm probably making CH OP if that happens people will claim. It was a fun dream. Would ahve been fun to play with...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 694
5/1/2012 19:12:44   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Original CH would be pretty sweet ^^ but the players demanded a better passive than Shadowarts and they got it. now it is here to stay.

what about giving passive armours to all classes, at least then everyone could be a tank.

something like.

Tech Mage: Mineral Armour, replaces defence matrix.
Blood Mage: Plasma Armour, replaces energy shield.
Cyber Hunter: Plasma Armour, nothing is changed.
Bounty Hunter: Hybrid Armour, replaces reflex boost.
Mercenary: Hybrid Armour, nothing is changed.
Tac Mercenary: Mineral Armour, nothing is changed.

hate the idea ofc, but if passive armours are here to stay, lets hand em out like candy.
Post #: 695
5/1/2012 19:25:45   
King Helios
Member

^Then we would need more offensive power, which would put lower levels at a bigger disadvantage.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 696
5/1/2012 19:50:45   
Joe10112
Member

@Pivotal: Against this. Why? Tech Mages with Mineral Armor? Makes no sense! Tech Mages arn't supposed to be hulky huge mages, they dont' get Mineral Armor IMO.

I am still with my idea until others convince me that it's not a good idea. Sorry if I sound stuck up that way, but that's my philosophy on stuff. If no one points out major flaws and such (or even minor flaws that hurt the idea badly), then it's a relatively good idea at least.

Man original CH. I would have loved to play as an Original CH. Unfortunately I got in when PA was released, and then 1/2 through my CH career (up to now), they just nerf Static Charge. Now I'm sad. It's boring. Need more life. Therefore, we use a Time Machine and go back to the past! For more interesting builds! :D

BTW what do you guys think of my "new and improved" CH skill tree revamp and synergy idea that I posted above?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 697
5/1/2012 22:18:33   
Wraith
Member
 

I want a class with Plasma Armor, Mineral Armor, and Hybrid Armor.

Now add Static Charge and Bloodlust.

Now add SmokeScreen and Massacre.

Now the rest of the skills will all be Field Medic.

This class is the meaning of balance.

/endsarcasm




Just get rid of BloodLust for BMs. Or ut it on 4th tier.

Then make E Shield -> Plasm Rain -> Overload -> Bloodlust.

Those fewskill points gone will fix this balance issue up. Then restore Zerker...

_____________________________

AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 698
5/1/2012 22:21:10   
Sama Swag Down Pat
Member

I think blood mages are beginning to discover a certain thing i like to call brute strength and are taking advantage of it to the point in which it needs to be nerfed. :D
AQW Epic  Post #: 699
5/1/2012 22:26:40   
rayniedays56
Member

Guys, the bloodmages may be out of control, but it is VERY easy to beat them if you know what you are doing.


I use a 5 focus build and I am still able to take them down reasonably well. Just remember, fight them defensively until they have no energy, then tear into them. SAVE energy for a good heal. It is NEVER going to be a fair fight with them if you try to waist all of your energy at the beginning.


HintHintHintHint**

((most BM's use a physical armor and have less that 23-28 resistance)) think about that.


I can haz Blood Mage balanced soon?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 700
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