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5/1/2012 22:28:36   
Wraith
Member
 

@Above: Waist is a noun that I think means hip. So how do you "waist" something...never mind.

Anyways, how do you plan on outlasting a BloodMage? It's possible, but depending on blocks isn't good.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 701
5/1/2012 22:31:33   
rayniedays56
Member

Outlasting a bloodmage?


If I go first..I use defense matrix, EMP, heal, SC, shoot, strike, SC etc etc etc

If I go second...emp, defense matrix, heal, SC, defense matrix, shoot, SC, Boost if necessary, RAGE bot, SC, heal, shoot etc etc etc

< Message edited by rayniedays56 -- 5/1/2012 22:32:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 702
5/2/2012 2:13:31   
Arevero
Member

I would just like to know, if we make a poll/vote for CH PA to stay or vice-versa, from what perspective will the voter's choose, obviously those who abuse EMP/tank would vote for it to stay, and those who propose creativity would vote no. But i am confident that a majority of CH will choose for PA to be removed, and i will respect everyone's choice/wish in order to bring balance to Cyber Hunter.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As in what i have come by, BMs still do STR builds, others have great BM builds, why can't players for once go for the fair-sided fun, and not the Uber-OP-playerstyle. If they really attempt at a creative build, i am sure they will enjoy it A LOT. But bludgeon isn't fixing the STR BM problem, more like delaying it for now. The best option now is probably taking DA away, OR make FireBall improve with something else.

@Zeoth

Yes some players completely left their CH account and went to another account/class to try something more 'DIVERSE" >.>

@Joe

Probably ED staff are too busy, ED is in fact a complex game, but yeah i kinda agree, the staff/mod team need to connect with us players more, not just on Twitter or FB, but also perhaps in-game and on forums.

AQ DF MQ  Post #: 703
5/2/2012 2:58:57   
Zeoth
Member

The new mods are well known pillars within the community, I'm sure they will overperform(:
Post #: 704
5/2/2012 3:06:12   
SylvanElf
Member
 

CH/BH with med-high massacre +rage are just crushing =.=
How do you guys survive this? Cause I certainly am rarely able to....

< Message edited by SylvanElf -- 5/2/2012 3:27:42 >
Post #: 705
5/2/2012 3:10:27   
Zeoth
Member

I've been playing on my level 31 alt founder mage, sooooo I run away from the 1v1 button xD
Post #: 706
5/2/2012 4:43:29   
Frost Snake
Member

@sylvan its quite easy since most classes can take away energy, but if you cant take away energy then just try to get them to about 20hp then they will be forced to heal of mass and either way you should win

< Message edited by Frost Snake -- 5/2/2012 4:45:54 >


_____________________________


AQW Epic  Post #: 707
5/2/2012 5:13:43   
Arevero
Member

You can't really get them down to 20HP without a STR build since they can mass within 3 turns, and you might still lose. In fact most B doesn't use heal due to their BL.

You can't really blame CH/BH, BH have no EP-regain so STR has to be their build, and CH have PA which hinders builds other than tank/STR. Both needs fixing.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 708
5/2/2012 5:17:17   
rayniedays56
Member

Here Arevaro. I think everyone needs to read this.


quote:

I don't recommend launching a petition on a subject like this, because it wouldn't take into consideration those who want Plasma Armour, and it also encourages the wrong kind of thing throughout the ED community. Basically, no matter how many people signed it, we may not change it, because right now, Cyber Hunters are rather balanced and disturbing that when a lot of Cyber Hunters would absolutely hate it if we got rid of Plasma Armour, would be a risk not exactly worth taking.

Not only this, but it also would lead to no end of petitions for many different things from balance to features to achievements to weapons, and this really would not work what-so-ever. All it takes is one petition to trigger off loads of petitions for loads of different things a lot of which may not be possible, may not be wanted by a lot of people, and overall it would just cause a big mess.

So sadly, for those reasons, I'm going to have to say no. It's a good idea, but games like this aren't really things that petitions can be used for.

~Lycus



This was in response to me asking if I could launch a petition for the removal of PA.


Hope it helped :)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 709
5/2/2012 5:26:18   
Frost Snake
Member

Well that helped me Raynie, but pa does need to be removed and posibly sa, thats just my opinion though

_____________________________


AQW Epic  Post #: 710
5/2/2012 5:52:46   
RageSoul
Member

I have an idea how to make the game less "whack-a-mole" strategy-based : STAMINA !

Q : What's Stamina and what does it do / help ?
A : Aside from its real-world meaning , Stamina also helps prevent opponents from going full offensive with the help of a bar called "Stamina Bar" ( duh! ) .

Q: How does it work?
A : Your Stamina relies on your Support Advantage . The more SUPP you have than your opponent/s , the more Stamina they lose , more Stamina you gain and lesser Stamina you lose .

Example on how it works :

PLAYER A is a Tech Mage having 82 overall SUPP while PLAYER B is a Blood Mage with 44 SUPP . Both are Level 34 .

*The stats below are just an example for my demo .

STATS ( STAT = Base + Bonus ):

PLAYER A :
* STR - 44
* DEX - 62
* TECH - 93
* SUPP - 82

PLAYER B :
* STR - 93
* DEX - 70
* TECH - 54
* SUPP - 44


The Stamina Bar capacity is based on your Char Level multiplied by 3 added with 30 points .

FORMULA = 30 + ( 3 x Character's Level )

Now both have 132 Stamina Points ( SP ) . However , PLAYER A has more SUPP than PLAYER B , meaning PLAYER B will lose more SP , thus forcing him to skip turns while PLAYER A is prancing around playing flying colors .

Q : How does a player lose SP ?
A : He loses SP by :
-> Getting hit ( low )
-> Attacking more via weapons like Primary , Guns , Bots and Auxiliiaries ( gets higher the more his opponent/s don't attack )
-> Using skills ( also low unless it's a damage skill )
-> Weapon Specials ( depending on the special )
* EXCEPTION : Icy Chill doesn't count :P

* If both have the same amount of SUPP , they lose Stamina based on the % of the stat the attack / skill is improved . The base % is 30%
EXAMPLE : Player A has a SUPP advantage of 38 , meaning he'll lose less SP . He casts a MAXED Plasma Bolt , so to know how much SP he will waste , here's how :

FORMULA : 30% + ( SUPP advantage / 4 )

So as we can see , PLAYER A has 38 SUPP advantage , so :
30% + ( 38 / 4 ) = 21%

Hence , he will only waste SP by 21% of his overall TECH , so he's left with 112 SP left .

NOTE : A player can also lose SP by getting hit , but the defender regains SP after the attack was done .

FORMULA : Damage taken x 50% - 5% of SP bar + ( SUPP Advantage / 6 )


Q : How does a player regain SP ?
A : He does that when an opponent's latest move involves an attack .

EXAMPLE : It's now PLAYER B's turn , and he uses his Physical Gun + LVL 1 Deadly Aim and hits a 44 Damage . PLAYER A's SP Bar reduced from 112 to 105 . It's now his turn and he regains 15 EP , now he has a SP BAR of 120 . However , PLAYER B lost SP in a faster rate of :

FORMULA = 30% + ( SUPP Disadvantage/4) = 30 + 9 = 39%

Now he loses SP by 39% of his STR stat , so his SP Bar lowers from 132 to 95 ( decimals are ALWAYS rounded-up ) .

*The base rate of damage skill usage is 30% .
*The base rate of using Primary is 40% , Gun is 30% , Auxilliary is 25% .
*The base rate of Robots is 35% .

Q : What if the attack get's blocked / deflected ?
A : The player that blocked / deflected an attack still loses SP but when his attacker has reached certain low level amounts of SP in his SP bar , then the defender won't lose any SP . However , the rates of the SP loss of the attacker remains the same if his SP bar is not below certain levels and so does the defender .

If a player reaches his SP bar to lower levels yet his opponent is still having high amounts of SP , then there are consequences on the player with low SP .

*55 % and above = no loss , just gain .
*60 - 50 % of SP bar = ATTACKER will lose 10% Block chance and Deflect chance , DEFENDER will gain 15% Block chance and 10% Deflect chance .
* 45% - 30% = ATTACKER will lose a total of 20% Block Chance and Deflect Chance while DEFENDER gains 20% Block Chance and the same Deflect Chance .
*25% and below = ATTACKER will lose a total of 35% Block Chance and the same Deflect Chance while DEFENDER gains 25% Block Chance and 15% Deflect Chance .

NOTE : If your opponent uses Skills yet his SP bar reaches below 55% , then he'll lose more SP by having an additional 15% SP loss if he uses an attack skill , 10% for debuff / buff / heal / weapon attack .

Q : What if my opponent didn't do anything , not even a heal ?
A : He loses more Rage by 25% of his SUPP if he skipped 2 continuous turns . So if he has 62 SUPP , he'll lose 17 Rage Points . Only works if you attack more . He loses more the more he skips and giving you more Rage by an additional 5% Rage rate / 2 turns the more you attack and the more he skips .

Q : Is there a way to remove his additional Rage rate?
A : You have to do an action , ANY action .

Q : Does Rage have any more relations to this?
A :Yes , if he uses an attack stackable with Rage , he will lose 5% more from the stat that improves it .

Q : What if my opponent uses Assimilation?
A : Then the SP loss will be based on STR . Same goes for Atom Smasher and TECH for EMP Grenade .

Q : What's the point of SKIP?
A : To regain huge amounts of EP . The EP regain is 25% of your SP Bar ( hey 25% is pretty huge ya know XD ).

Q : How do i skip?
A : Via waiting for 15 seconds to reach 0 or even better .... add a SKIP TURN button for faster fights .

Q : What if i use an Ultimate Skill ( e.g Massacre ) ?
A : Add up the SP loss rate with 20% more to see how much EP he loses .

Q : Does Agility affect this ?
A : Yep , by how much points he lost from 100 Agility , half of it will be the % of the SP capacity reduced .

To make this short , low SP = bad news , more SUPP = good news , while Offensive attacks = strategical non-spammer's new friend .


Making more ideas about balance with explanations , examples and stuff would be better wouldn't you guys agree?







AQW Epic  Post #: 711
5/2/2012 6:02:03   
Wootz
Member

I don't really like the part of skipping turns. That would be a bit OP'd for Support abusers, just stack up 120+ Support and wait a few turns and your enemy won't even have enough stamina to use anything else. While the player with higher Support could just lay back and watch.

What I would suggest to it is that Stamina only affects damaging skills. And if you don't have stamina you can use Primary/Side Arm/Auxiliary/Robot. Otherwise I think that Support would be over-powered.

I didn't quite understand how we are able to regain SP, though. And if we regain EP wouldn't that make Reroute and Static Charge to have no purpouse in the game, then?

Good post, anyways!
AQW Epic  Post #: 712
5/2/2012 6:11:48   
RageSoul
Member

@Wootz
Thanks! And oh i forgot , there's a cap for gaining / losing SP :
The minimum SP loss is 20%
The maximum is 40%
The minimum SP gain is also 20%
The maximum is also 40%


quote:

I didn't quite understand how we are able to regain SP, though. And if we regain EP wouldn't that make Reroute and Static Charge to have no purpouse in the game, then?

Then lessening the SP cost of SC by 15% of STR might be better . And no , no EP regain via Stamina , 'coz yes it'll make EP gaining skills useless .

quote:

What I would suggest to it is that Stamina only affects damaging skills. And if you don't have stamina you can use Primary/Side Arm/Auxiliary/Robot. Otherwise I think that Support would be over-powered.

The problem is STR builds being too abusive but most parts of your suggestion is a good idea , so Stamina , take away the SP cost from buffs , debuffs , Guns , Aux and Bots .

quote:

I don't really like the part of skipping turns. That would be a bit OP'd for Support abusers, just stack up 120+ Support and wait a few turns and your enemy won't even have enough stamina to use anything else. While the player with higher Support could just lay back and watch.

Good thing i added a cap for both SP loss and gain in this post . Thanks for reminding me !
AQW Epic  Post #: 713
5/2/2012 6:17:31   
Wootz
Member

quote:

The minimum SP loss is 20%
The maximum is 40%
The minimum SP gain is also 20%
The maximum is also 40%

Looks pretty good. :P

quote:

Then lessening the SP cost of SC by 15% of STR might be better . And no , no EP regain via Stamina , 'coz yes it'll make EP gaining skills useless .

Still didn't explain how to regen Stamina more detailed. I would appreciate it.


quote:

The problem is STR builds being too abusive but most parts of your suggestion is a good idea , so Stamina , take away the SP cost from buffs , debuffs , Guns , Aux and Bots .


Yeah, but Strenght builds use skills. And in Deadly Aim case it would/should take away SP because it is influenced by a skill.
And, buffs, debuffs, guns, aux, bots and Primary shouldn't really have it, would make the SP loss to big. And it is a good idea because all of those have a chance to be either blocked or deflected (not counting buffs).

quote:

Good thing i added a cap for both SP loss and gain in this post . Thanks for reminding me !


You're welcome.
AQW Epic  Post #: 714
5/2/2012 6:26:43   
RageSoul
Member

quote:

Still didn't explain how to regen Stamina more detailed. I would appreciate it.

It's simple : you get SP by getting hit . If it doesn't involve any attack , no SP regained .

quote:

Yeah, but Strenght builds use skills. And in Deadly Aim case it would/should take away SP because it is influenced by a skill.
And, buffs, debuffs, guns, aux, bots and Primary shouldn't really have it, would make the SP loss to big. And it is a good idea because all of those have a chance to be either blocked or deflected (not counting buffs).

How about making Primary/Sidearm based skills cost even more SP . How's that sound?
AQW Epic  Post #: 715
5/2/2012 6:34:04   
Wootz
Member

quote:

It's simple : you get SP by getting hit . If it doesn't involve any attack , no SP regained .


Okay.

quote:

How about making Primary/Sidearm based skills cost even more SP . How's that sound?


I think it should depend on the skill. And not all classes have the same ammount of skills that increase by Primary and Side arm.
And for the Ultimate skills it should be a completly different story. The only way my current build would then be affected by SP would be by using either Cheat Shot, Massacre or Static Charge. Of that Static Charge being the most due to long battles I tend to do.
Does capping the minimum at 10% and capping the maximum at 30% of losing SP sound good? 'Cause lets say if you lose 20% per turn and really have a low regain (tanks) you wouldn't have a skill to use in 5 turns and tanks pretty much either use the Robot which is every 3 turns or the Auxiliary every 3 turns, aswell. And then don't rely on the Primary and Side arm much.
AQW Epic  Post #: 716
5/2/2012 6:51:37   
RageSoul
Member

@Wootz
Sounds good , but to make this better ... how 'bout we don't include SC as a SP-costing EP gain Skill? So.... lemme change the Formulas

NEW FORMULAE = 20% + ( Supp advantage / 5 ) - SP Loss ; 40% Damage Taken - ( 5% + SUPP advantage / 5 ) - SP Loss by attack , the overall % will be the regain .
AQW Epic  Post #: 717
5/2/2012 7:04:34   
Arevero
Member

@rayniedays56

Thank you for the post, i will reserve that suggestion though in case when ever CHs will be receiving changes again. That idea is still in my mind and will stay so. Anyways thanks for the confirmation, won't let me lose hope though :P

I won't be on much now since i am getting a bit busy over here, and won't be able to attend as much discussions, so i hope you guys will still make awesome suggestions and discussions! :D


@Lord Aegis

Sounds really complicated but 'work-able' i think, allow the mods to have a look at this
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 718
5/2/2012 7:06:24   
Wootz
Member

That sounds even better Aegis ^^
Static Charge is something like an active passive skill, and is basicly a strike without any special effects then to regen Energy. So, I'm in! ^^
AQW Epic  Post #: 719
5/2/2012 7:07:43   
RageSoul
Member

@Arevero
Thanks!

To the Devs : If you have a lot of time to test , can i make a request? Try testing this idea of mine . I know it's gonna take alot of work but can be worth it though .
AQW Epic  Post #: 720
5/2/2012 11:00:05   
PivotalDisorder
Member

Just to clear up my suggestion of all classes have a passive armour.

I do not support passive armours except Hybrid for Mercs. I think a skill that directly gives 40+ stat points that classes without it
have to spend on their defences is gamebreaking. Passive Armours like Mineral and Plasma are gamebreaking.

that should be enough reason to consider removing them.

as for the staff not wanting to make a change that makes a certain classes player base mad. that is a blatant lie. you do it all the time.

ALL THE TIME

remember when you gave us a preview of Plasma Armour, and nearly everyone said they were gonna switch to CH even before the
update had rolled out, they all knew it would be OP. you saw what happened, they all class changed to CH overnight and stayed as it
until the staff nerfed it down to a slow tank build. and to make matters worse, you nerfed the one skill that made Cyber Hunters a
really fun unique class. they needed a passive but they didn't need that one and we all knew that. now you are using us as scapegoats
to justify a massive mistake. you made the mistake, and now you say the community want it so it must stay. BS, most players just
wanna win, that is why they support a skill like PA. not because they think it is balanced, and definitely not because they think it is fun.

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 5/2/2012 11:07:33 >
Post #: 721
5/2/2012 11:13:15   
ansh0
Member

I bet this is(or will be) the fastest thread to 30 pages.


My opinion on balance-

Give deflection back to support.
Epic  Post #: 722
5/2/2012 11:19:42   
Ranloth
Banned


It's still funny how passive Armors destroy creativity for CHs and maybe limit TLM's slightly, but Mercs are as creative as ever with a passive Armor. xD
AQ Epic  Post #: 723
5/2/2012 11:24:13   
PivotalDisorder
Member

well Mercs don't have a debuff like Malfunction, don't have an energy regain like Reroute or Static Charge so they already nerfed into oblivion,
Hybrid brings them back up to an almost fair level. they still need improving though, not everyone can afford Delta Knight Armour

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 5/2/2012 11:25:05 >
Post #: 724
5/2/2012 11:24:33   
Stabilis
Member

Support can improve Field Medic again IF classes with Reroute have Field Medic swapped for another skill that restores health and will not synergize with Reroute and Support, thus looping heals in any battle.
AQ Epic  Post #: 725
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