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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion Thread

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4/19/2012 20:43:42   
Rayman
Banned


 CH Need a little nerf but i dont know what.
AQW Epic  Post #: 201
4/19/2012 20:55:00   
ScarletReaper
Member

It's been discussed. Best option is replace plasma armor with energy shield, replace malf with a new skill called conduction, and put static charge back how it was. However, bm needs nerf first, and I think merc should be fixed first as well. Maybe replace berzerker with a skill that lets them gain energy back or something like that.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 202
4/19/2012 21:05:08   
Retrosaur
Member
 
quote:

It's been discussed. Best option is replace plasma armor with energy shield, replace malf with a new skill called conduction


They discussed a new skill called Conduction? Please.....
AQW Epic  Post #: 203
4/19/2012 21:20:23   
Rayman
Banned


 Cant Fireball inprove with Supp and str? Like fireball goes 1 dmg per 4 str but if it inprove with Supp and str it will go 1 dmg per 3 str and 3 supp or 2 str and 2 supp.
AQW Epic  Post #: 204
4/19/2012 21:26:51   
Joe10112
Member

@^: Too hard IMO. Hard to explain and hard to code most likely.

I say Shadow Arts needs a rework to also give a passive bonus to connect as well as passive chance to block and stun resistance. Or swap Shadow Arts from Cybers with Deadly Aim from Blood Mages. Stops the STR abuse partially from BMs, and if re-worked to give passive chance to connect, helps with zerker/bludgeon.

E. Shield replacing Plasma Armor is totally fine with me I guess, it just means that it has to improve with something other than SUP (as DM already improves with SUP). I'm still in favor of just replacing Plasma Armor back with Technician. Why did we reject that again?

Replacing Malfunction with Conduction = good idea. I'd gladly take an extra 3-5 damage per hit while Conduction is on opponent than the off-chance that they deflect (which they would probably do anyway even if I had Malfed them). What does Conduction improve with?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 205
4/19/2012 21:54:52   
rayniedays56
Member

Well, since right now Cybers only have 1 dexerity improving skill, and if we replace PA with energy shield that improves with technology, then Conduction should theoretically improve with Dexerity.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 206
4/19/2012 22:01:35   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @raynie No. Absolutely not. The skill already takes way more resistance away than Malf ever could short of huge support abuse. That fact alone should mean it shouldn't improve by anything. Unless of course you want a Str CH with high dex taking away up to 20 resistance and you not being able to drop it down to miniscule numbers with Assault bot like you would with Malf. 20 on Conduction will leave you with 4 less resistance as opposed to 7 tech lost with just Malf.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 207
4/19/2012 22:11:36   
Arevero
Member

Glad that everyone confirms the Cyber change, can't wait for it to be implemented!

@ND

It could improve by dexterity by every 5/6 pts, it will not be OP keeping in mind that we cannot afford every point into Conduction, and we need STR, HP and TECH to survive as well as dexterity.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 208
4/19/2012 22:16:23   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @arev It already takes away around 10 in the middle levels of the skill which is easily around 40 tech for Malf. That would be a high leveled Malf with above average support.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 209
4/19/2012 22:20:07   
Joe10112
Member

@^: Compensation for the lack of no technology take-away. Which is why it takes away more resistance.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 210
4/19/2012 22:49:02   
rayniedays56
Member

And Cybers would need another dex improving skill since we had Tech taken away with a foreign skill...


I mean, I USE PA, but I have it at level 7 so it is not considered an OP. It just helps compensate for the fact that we don't have a way to Buff our resistance.

It NEEDS taken away and replaced with something nice. Energy shield would be nice, yes, but I miss the Technician days :)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 211
4/19/2012 22:49:32   
riot7
Member

ok so if hunters/ cyber hunters are gonna have malfunction and emp grenades ..how is that fair for tactical mercs ??? who have neither...i mean all a hunter has to do is constantly emp, emp, emp, heal
Post #: 212
4/19/2012 22:55:27   
rayniedays56
Member

Tactical Mercs can Tank a lot better than Cybers can. And with your logic, no, we canot emp, emp, emp, heal.


Taht would cost 10+10+10+23 for a good heal, so that is 53 energy, not to mention that we malf, which is 14 energy at the lowest, we use DEF matrix, which is 9 at the lowest.


So that costs ALREADY 76 energy, and with our SC being so low we can gain about 16 energy back, which would easily be taken away from a Smart Merc or Tact Merc.


Think on that :)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 213
4/19/2012 23:01:25   
riot7
Member

u still dont need malfunction and emp..that's just to much..i mean like taking out a tactical merc who uses surgical strike's tech is just as bad as his taking out his energy..it's ridiculous..because i did play against a cyber who went emp, attack, booster, ..he emped me 4 times..used a malfunction on me..and kept boostering..well if you are gonna keep boostering like that..like everyone is doing these days...then yeah get rid of emp...because with boostering..you don't need it
Post #: 214
4/19/2012 23:06:51   
rayniedays56
Member

Boosters and Emp's, though, can be combated with a nice enough build.


You say you are a tact merc, with your Atom Smasher you can easily stop the EMP's after a booster. Trust me, a lot of mercs and tact mercs have stopped me.


Another way is to fight Fire with Fire.

They booster? YOU booster. They take energy away? YOU take energy away. Cybers are NOT hard to beat, trust me.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 215
4/19/2012 23:07:12   
Rayman
Banned


 Joe: Shadows arts dont give u stun resistance.



Wuts conduction?
AQW Epic  Post #: 216
4/19/2012 23:16:04   
Arevero
Member

May i remind you TLM has reroute. A skill requiring NOTHING, and you get EP back, still not convinced?

To Cybers, EMP is a unique skill, and EMPing people throughout an entire battle is JUST BORING. I have tried it b4, and trust me, per static you have to EMP, it's just plain tiring. You can't compensate an entire class when only people who want to win every match is doing it.

I bet everyone who has posted in this thread does not like EMP/STATIC their way through. And EMP also takes a turn+10ep, so really, to TLMs, they can gain EP back in no time. And you have poison, try it on a lower lvl so you can use it not only once throughout a battle, people need to step up to their class and EXPERIMENT, already my friends, such as 'VanitySixx' already has made a great BM build, STR-related=0%.

OR if you want, you can try and make it that CHs can only EMP 2 times a match. But then that will be boring.Overall TLM is a really tactical class, it can create really good builds if you try. And if you try hard, the outcome will pay-off, that's a guarantee.

@Rayman (above)

Goto the 1st page, Depressed posts, look for Conduction(Trans idea).

< Message edited by Arevero -- 4/19/2012 23:17:20 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 217
4/19/2012 23:29:03   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 1. Balance of a skill shouldn't be based on the idea that people may not choose to max out the skill in question. If Conduction were to increase by 4 each level after lvl 7 then it would be OPd regardless of the excuse "Some people won't make it go past level 7.."
2. At Max level it can take away 16 resistance, the rough equivalent of 60 tech. Despite the fact that no tech is actually lost, this skill is already much better than any other nerf in the entire-game without it improving by stats.
3. What do strength builds fear most? Blocks. What does increased Dex do? Lower chances of blocks. So obviously making an easily abuseable strength skill improve with a skill that helps the strength build in the first place isn't a good idea to me.
4. Assault Bot will leave you with around 3 resistance lost whereas Malf would leave you with 7 tech lost. If you want to defend against them by using Assault Bot or Technician then you are in for some trouble still.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 218
4/20/2012 1:35:23   
Joe10112
Member

quote:

Joe: Shadows arts dont give u stun resistance.


Pretty sure it does...

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 219
4/20/2012 1:36:28   
ansh0
Member

It gives you a higher chance to stun not resistance to it.
Epic  Post #: 220
4/20/2012 2:15:33   
Whirlwindstorm2
Member

@joe- shadow arts increases your chance of stunning the opponent. Only support can help reduce the rate of you getting stunned.
Post #: 221
4/20/2012 2:39:40   
Elf Priest JZaanu
Constructive!


 If Berserker will be adjusted to bludgeon, instead of it being physical, make it energy damage.
AQW Epic  Post #: 222
4/20/2012 2:48:00   
Ranloth
Banned


 Replacing Plasma with E Shield isn't possible, it was my and Void's idea but if you change E Shield to improve by Tech then it affects BHs and BMs as well. So I changed it to Technican again.
And no, Conduction wouldn't improve with anything. I only boosted up numbers for different level ranges, -16 Res at L10 of the skill is possible at Lvl 25+ or somewhere along these lines and making it improve by stats would lead to abuse, especially Dex or Tech hence I prefer fixed numbers which are better than Malf (Res wise) but don't affect your actual stat which give you an advantage over Malf.
AQ Epic  Post #: 223
4/20/2012 3:39:22   
PivotalDisorder
Member

quote:

Blood Mages: what about replacing Berzerker, Deadly Aim and Reflex Boost with Hybrid Armour, Assimilate and Bludgeon?

skill tree would look something like THIS

so what did you guys think of my revised skill tree for BM?

@Trans: why can't CH use Energy Shield as it is?

< Message edited by PivotalDisorder -- 4/20/2012 3:41:46 >
Post #: 224
4/20/2012 4:07:27   
Arevero
Member

@Pivotal

Because it would cause SUP abuse, and as DM, ES, and malf currently all improve on SUP, it would cause our malf to take out 40tech, our shields up to 24+ on lv1, and we will crit a lot as well. That is why we cannot possibly be balanced with ES by SUP.
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 225
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