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4/29/2012 11:34:55   
Promaster
Member

Have you noticed that tlm is the only class without debuffs? ( CH and TM have malf, BH have smoke, Mercs and BM have intimidate.)
I personally think that we could at least have intimidate as i feel that it would be more useful than having fc. With the recent trends of having high dex builds, i dont like taking the risk of using up a turn to boost my str only to miss my attacks. I do agree that tlm with smoke is somehow OPed in a way, but i myself am a tlm and i feel somehow out of place as i dont have a debuff to play with.

So how do you feel about it?
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
4/29/2012 11:37:20   
Ranloth
Banned


 Wrong place to post, instead post here: http://forums2.battleon.com/f/tm.asp?m=20244545
Solution for you - think of other build or change class with debuffer. Alternative solution to TLMs was keeping Smoke and taking out Reroute so be glad it was swapped for FC instead, which is useful for Tank builds with Poison so you can use it, if you like creativity and thinking of course.
AQ Epic  Post #: 2
4/29/2012 11:52:05   
PivotalDisorder
Member

I would love TLM if they removed Mineral Armour and returned Smoke Screen. why do they need a passive armour?
they got support skills, dex skills, tech skills, strength skills, energy regain. energy reduction and with Smoke, a debuff.

would be a workable class, but Passive Armours are considered a permanent part of the game, without explanation.
Post #: 3
4/29/2012 11:52:28   
liy010
Member

I don't see why not add Smoke back in. The reason Smoke was so OP was because TLM had Technician and smoke increased with Tech. Besides, more people have Rusted Assault Bot/Assault Bot than those who have Azreal's Borg so you should be glad they can't debuff your buff in a single turn.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
4/29/2012 11:57:48   
Ranloth
Banned


 Liy, what you posted is reason why Technican was removed, not Smoke. Smoke gave.too much synergy with their builds and was abused. Unless you get rid of Mineral or Reroute, there'll be no Smoke. Tech can be back though, no reason why it shouldn't.
AQ Epic  Post #: 5
4/29/2012 12:01:53   
Promaster
Member

Trans:
Right.. I'm sorry if i made it sound like a balance issue, but I have no intention of making this a balance issue. It may have been my phrasing, as i have no idea how else i could phrase this, but I am just asking for other's opinion about how this has somehow affected their impression or usage of tlms.

If it is still posted in the wrong section, i apologise.

However, i understand changing of builds. I've been playing ED for quite long (since beta) so I do know how to adapt well. I wouldnt mind the alternative way at all, however, I feel technician would also be a nice substitute somehow. I am not a supporter of poison as i have to waste too much skill points in it hence i always avoid that skill. Creativity and thinking is essential to making a build, i agree, but whether it will be successful or not would be another problem.

< Message edited by Promaster -- 4/29/2012 12:10:09 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
4/29/2012 12:03:45   
Stabilis
Member

@liy,

The REAL reason Smokescreen was removed was because of the synergy it has with Strike skills. Would there really be no problems if we reinstalled Smokescreen to Tactical Mercenaries when they have Double Strike, Frenzy, and Atom Smasher? Skills like those are going to have to move or we end up with Delta Strength TacMs again. We cannot nerf Smokescreen, Double Strike, or Atom Smasher, otherwise we nerf Mercenaries and Bounty Hunters. If Titan and/or Rabble creates a failproof way of only changing one skill in a class, then we can talk about implementing and balancing only one aspect at a time.
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
4/29/2012 12:25:59   
8x
Member

I think TLM field commander should be replaced with intimidate.
Epic  Post #: 8
4/29/2012 12:26:47   
stryker914
Member

Poison grenade is a health debuff technically, and Stun Grenade is a turn debuff.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 9
4/29/2012 12:27:35   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

I think TLM field commander should be replaced with intimidate.


It's one way to keep support builds alive for them at least.
Epic  Post #: 10
4/29/2012 12:28:33   
Calogero
Member

BloodMages is the only class without an Energy steal yet it manages...

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
4/29/2012 12:29:57   
Promaster
Member

Depressed Void:
However, all the strike attacks can still be blocked. The removal of smokescreen has somehow lead tlms to resort to being defensive. Now only a few tlm would go offensive throughout all the fights i have had. Yes, poison can be used, however, smart players will bring health boosters to counter it, and using two poison grenades would be risk is it would be too energy-intensive. Some really good players i fought had no problems countering smoke, either by bot, defense matrix, reflex boost or a strategic way of stalling all the way till smoke duration is over. ( There is this one player who did that to me, and i lost tragically.)
This somehow made me think that tlm can only resort to being defensive, at least that's how i feel.


If i may, since tlm has a great synergy with smoke, what about CH with malf? They have massacre that can be energy and it cant be blocked. Their static charge lets them massacre and also use multi shot infinitely if they know how to manage their energy correctly, so wouldnt this case be the same with tlm? The fact that the attacks from CH cant be blocked would also make it even more OPed in my opinion. Just stating my thoughts.

Andy123:

How they are able to manage is due to the fact that they can deal a huge load of damage (gun damage because of deadly aim, fireball and berzerker) and regain some of the damage done as health thanks to bloodlust. Smart BMs will also have high health to tank a little and regain some health back, and are still able to maintain high dex that is enough to usually help them get a few blocks.

< Message edited by Promaster -- 4/29/2012 12:40:15 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
4/29/2012 12:35:04   
Stabilis
Member

^

I know, Malfunction in my opinion is not necessary to have for Cyber Hunters. With Static Charge, anything is possible really.

But what I would like to see is that Cyber Hunters swap out Massacre for a physical element ultimate, so that there is less synergy.
AQ Epic  Post #: 13
4/29/2012 12:35:52   
King FrostLich
Member

Perhaps you're forgetting one thing. Not all attacks are expected to be blocked. Smokescreen was one dangerous skill placed on TLM and added with reroute, technician, with maul and double strike at that time, they can outmatch many builds which was unfair. Add frenzy as well, it allowed strength tact mercs to heal especially if they rage so technically they didn't use field medic that much but they can hit high. If you didn't notice, damage is far greater than defense itself in this game. A strength tact merc can go up to 27-33+34 damage(highest damage I've seen at that time for tact merc so far) which is clearly 61 - 67 damage while defense was hard to scale. Even if you reach 100+ dexterity(ranging 35+ or more) it didn't outmatch damage compared to strength tact mercs and they would still hit you high despite having huge defensive skills or defense/resistance.

< Message edited by King FrostLich -- 4/29/2012 12:45:38 >
Epic  Post #: 14
4/29/2012 12:38:13   
Ranloth
Banned


 Also someone's missing one point:
Class is called Tactical Mercenary. ;)

Besides Str build + Poison is strong already, or Tank Poison, both manage to do good damage and loop due to Poison. Try SS build, since Mineral takes care of Def, you can spam Tech to get Res instead and EMP cannot kill you because you have Reroute.

Synergy with Smoke = Frenzy, DS, old Maul, and Str abuse. Frenzy with Smoke and Rage could heal quite a lot of HP if used wisely, 20 HP per hit, maybe more? That's what I used to have. CHs with Malf, and you're mentioning ultimate Skill.. So what about TMs, they have Malf and SC which is Energy and unblockable, or is it matter of passive Armor? Look, CHs have no passive Energy regen, block their SC and they get no Energy and if anything then still low amounts, that's why they have debuff.
Man, using brain hurts a lot nowadays. Turn Mercenary if you don't like TLM, unless you suffer from often headaches and thinking ain't your strong point.
AQ Epic  Post #: 15
4/29/2012 12:38:36   
Stabilis
Member

@king frostlich,

@the original poster



< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 4/29/2012 12:39:05 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 16
4/29/2012 13:00:40   
Promaster
Member

@Frostlich:
Wassup? it's me, pyro. :P
Back on topic: Do note that the blocking mechanics are somehow unfair in a way that smoked players still have a high chance of blocking, hence we cannot change the fac that our combo are still blockable. One miss could change the tide of the battle from my personal experience.

Trans:
We cannot loop if we tank, as the damage we receive is too low, hence the energy we get back is also low. With tlm always having low energy, it is unwise to loop poison unless you are confident you will win. Yes, we can spam tech, but that will only make us tank, and nothing else. Yes we have SS, but it's damage isnt that great and we can usually only use it once, and so it will not be that significant.
Yes, we can combo, but one block spells doom.That's what everyone used to have, not me. I keep to a +5 focus build all along.
The example of CH is only an example of a case whereby they also have great synergy with their skills. TM also has synergy, thanks for mentioning. Yes, block their sc and they get no energy, but they can tank their way till their sc cools down to use it again. And when they do sc, they gain back a load of energy back too, until tlm who get only a little bit of energy back each turn, which compared to CH, cant get back as much as how CH do.
Now, i dont know if you have a grudge against me as i get your hint of trying to somehow state that i dont have a brain, however i do feel as though you are getting agitated about me feeling this way, however, i did not complain about tlm being weak, as i only felt as though we are out of place. Remove a merc's energy and they lose. Simple way to counter them. I play with strategy, so do not assume i am inflexible. Can i ask you to not be offensive with your usage of words here? Thank you. I have always plan my attacks and build. All i felt was that there could have been a better choice instead of fc.
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
4/29/2012 13:09:05   
King FrostLich
Member

PYROBLAZER?!! That you?? Long time no see though you should come online on epic.
Epic  Post #: 18
4/29/2012 13:09:32   
Stabilis
Member

@The OP,

Technology exploiting for Tactical Mercenaries is quite easy, actually. If you would like, I'll switch to Tactical Mercenary and show you dozens of pictures of me winning 1v1 battles with a Surgical Strike that always has a minimal damage of 30.
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
4/29/2012 13:12:06   
Ranloth
Banned


 Loads of Energy? With 29% at max, total of 60 damage (35 weapon and high Str to get to 25), you get 18 Energy if it connects, every 2 turns. With maxed Reroute, that's 60 HP taken away but you can have as high HP as you want instead or just train Energy which may be useful for some builds. But be glad, we TMs have no passive Armor so it's even worse. e.e
Reason why I said to use brain - these threads came up a lot after Smoke was taken away, almost tiring so I apologise for being rude.
Remove Energy and Merc loses - that's called CH EMP loop. It affects every class, not just yours. I don't mind one EMP but looping causes everyone to lose unless you manage to have Str build and crush their Tankiness. So comparing TLMs to CHs isn't good idea, I see TLMs more balanced than before and can still be decent as I fight a few. Try high Str, medium Frenzy, high Reroute and Poison; start with Poison, attack after, use Frenzy when needed to Heal, until they die. It works in most cases unless they manage to Tank through you or keep looping you (CHs), but they affect everyone not just TLMs. And pretty sure you must know how BMs, BHs and Mercs feel with no Energy regen skill, that's even worse.

FC is fine, Intimidate can also work so I'm fine with both on my TLM. Although I don't use FC, Intimidate would've been much better choice for me instead. And Intimidate is also a debuffer so it should please you to have one, no? Last thing they could use is Technican being back if there's no Smoke, it was only reason Technican was removed - because of Smoke.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
4/29/2012 13:25:13   
King FrostLich
Member

quote:

Technology exploiting for Tactical Mercenaries is quite easy, actually. If you would like, I'll switch to Tactical Mercenary and show you dozens of pictures of me winning 1v1 battles with a Surgical Strike that always has a minimal damage of 30.


Well surgical strike, tank/tank poison, and support builds are the ones left for TLM if used properly. Right now, I often see TLM's using tanking builds but the main problem I see in their builds is that most of them do not have 5 focus and completely abused dex or tech which destroys their use of robot. Honestly, TLM can still heal loop if they have enough health.
Epic  Post #: 21
4/29/2012 13:28:20   
Promaster
Member

18 is enough for a level 1 heal, which can sometimes make a difference, a defence matrix to tank more, or maybe just let it stack with one more sc to pull off one rage multi shot. With their tankiness, they can do anything, though a simple atom smasher or emp can ruin their strategy, which is what i normally do hence i have no problems with CHs. Yeah, i do feel for TMs, however, their sc builds are commendable. Other then that, some TMs i know still stick to loop healing with super high hp and heal and it does work, just not as efffectively. They can also go high str, though it's quite risky.
I understand, though i just kinda dont understand why we get fc. Fc doesnt exactly have a link to tactical mercenaries to me.
I hardly fought any CH that loops with emp, though it may be the case that i have not fought one yet. I apologise for the bad comparison i made, however, i was only comparing for that one factor, and not including other factors. As i have stated, i go for strategy, so i do not spam my str and just plainly hit frenzy or double strike skills. I have also included the reason why i do not use poison so i will not include it here. I am not asking for suggestions to my build, as i have a high % build right now. I am only asking for opinions about this issue. Tanking, apparently, is rather popular now due to the rise in CH with high dex, that is why i avoid high str as i do not take risks I have met a couple of BM who survived without energy though. They totally crushed me.
Intimidate will work wonders for me, however, it also does not have a link to the theme of tactical mercs. I am hoping technician would come back as smoke has been removed, however, we also have blood shield which increases our res, so with tech and bs, we will have god-like resistance. Maybe that is a reason why we dont have it back. Who knows?

Frostlich:
Yeah, it's me. :)
Yes, however, all that wall of text of yours only meant that the only thing left for tlm is to tank. Hence they are not able to fully go on the offensive as they lack the skills to. They are still able to go fully offensive, however, it will not be effective any more. Abusing dex only meant increasing the damage of our stun grenades, but no tlm now would exactly depend on a mere stun grenade, and with smoke removed, it is now even more meaningless. Tech abuse tlm can only tank and use SS. Yes, it seems like it's strong, however, do note that this build makes they even more dependent on energy. Remove their energy and rage before they can ss spells doom for them.

Depressed Void:
Yes, i would like that, though i dont want you to spend your varium or credits unwillingly. I have not seen a ss tlm or merc for ages.

< Message edited by Promaster -- 4/29/2012 13:42:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
4/29/2012 13:44:55   
ConQrR
Member

I support FC replace with intimidate.

_____________________________

ConQrR
Epic  Post #: 23
4/29/2012 13:46:43   
Stabilis
Member

I don't mind really, what's one class change anyhow? :p

In fact, I think my next video will be one of SS TacMs.

Give me about 2 days and I'll have pics and the video uploaded. 'v'
AQ Epic  Post #: 24
4/29/2012 13:49:00   
Promaster
Member

ConQrR:
I do agree too, however, do note that if tlm were to have their fc replaced with intimidate, there would be a total of three classes which share the same skill. I dont know if it is possible, but people will feel that the devs lack creativity when three classes somehow share the same debuff, so it also has it's negative impacts.

Depressed Void:
What's class change? I'll tell ya. 50 000 credits or 1200 varium. That's a lot considering i'm always broke. I change my build too often. :P
However, do let me know when you are done with it. I'm fairly interested.

< Message edited by Promaster -- 4/29/2012 13:51:07 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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