RE: =ED= Balance Discussion VIII


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5/19/2012 19:09:03

Arevero
Member

I was thinking of something unique, so how about a skill called 'Conversion':

Conversion: When you block, you receive X amount of HP back.
Passive
Replaces Bloodlust.
Lv
1- 1hp return
2- 2hp
3- 3hp
4- 4hp
5- 5hp
6- 6hp
7- 7hp
8- 8hp
9- 9hp
M- 10hp

Support requirement:

Level 1: 24, +2 per lvl.

So basically, you get HP when you block your opponent, this should probably be moved to the 3 tier, and allow BH's skill tree be revamped a bit.

Feedback appreciated.

Post #: 426

5/19/2012 20:38:46

Joe10112
Member

@^: I sense a rise in Reflex Boost + High Dex + High E. Shield + High Stun Nade + High multi builds.

Although, I must say, I like it.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 427

5/19/2012 21:07:47

carabuno
Member

I believe that would be amazing considering how bloodlust is an extreamly good skill i like it and i think they should do it.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 428

5/19/2012 21:21:01

Arevero
Member

@Joe

Remember that BHs don't have passive armor, so they can't tank too much, adjustments can be made to my skill if you wish.

@carabuno

So are you yes or no or nothing ? xD sorry i just didn't quite catch what you are trying to say.

Post #: 429

5/19/2012 21:38:05

Zeoth
Member

Sounds like its encouraging dex abuse Arevero, and I believe we have enough of that.
Also the support requirement has synergy together.

Post #: 430

5/19/2012 22:06:53

Arevero
Member

@Zeoth

How about this:

Returns EP and HP

lv
1-1hp
2-1hp 1ep
3-2hp 1ep
4-3hp 2ep
5-4hp 3ep
6-4hp 4ep
7-5hp 5ep
8-6hp 5ep
9-6hp 6ep
M-7hp 7ep

This way it won't be based on survival, but strategy since they receive EP back, also the requirement will be from 24tech, +2 per lvl. Tier 3.

This way, on max, it requires about 40+ tech. Encourages 5F builds.

Post #: 431

5/19/2012 22:45:17

Mr. Black OP
Member

When attacking you should only gain 2/3 the amount of rage you gain now.

_____________________________

Epic	Post #: 432

5/19/2012 22:58:34

kittycat
Member

It seems like Massacre is getting a little ripped off. I have a better idea.

Level 1- 50%
Level 2- 57%
Level 3- 64%
Level 4- 71%
Level 5- 78%
Level 6- 84%
Level 7- 90%
Level 8- 95%
Level 9- 100%
Level 10- 105%

Post #: 433

5/19/2012 23:05:48

goldslayer1
Member

quote:

I was thinking of something unique, so how about a skill called 'Conversion':

Conversion: When you block, you receive X amount of HP back.
Passive
Replaces Bloodlust.
Lv
1- 1hp return
2- 2hp
3- 3hp
4- 4hp
5- 5hp
6- 6hp
7- 7hp
8- 8hp
9- 9hp
M- 10hp

Support requirement:

Level 1: 24, +2 per lvl.

So basically, you get HP when you block your opponent, this should probably be moved to the 3 tier, and allow BH's skill tree be revamped a bit.

so, if u block me, u get hp return?
heres my answer, and ill put it as politely as possible.

HELL NO.

now if it were the other way around, where if u blocked me and i GAINED hp. then yes.
theres no reason to make blocking even more OP.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 434

5/19/2012 23:21:37

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@gold What kind of skill ever nerfs the user? The only concern I see already is that Support requirement means you can get high Reflex Boost along with high leveled SA and thus abuse the skill for easy health while dishing out damage. It could re-energize Support Hunters once more but would need to be tested to not be broken.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 435

5/19/2012 23:25:58

Zeoth
Member

Quite honestly I dislike this skill since it is so concerned with the large luck factor in ED in all pretenses this should be avoided unless we find a way to make the RNG at least a little more predictable

< Message edited by Zeoth -- 5/19/2012 23:26:50 >

Post #: 436

5/19/2012 23:43:09

liy010
Member

What he said...

Zeoth you dang ninja >.<

AQW

Epic

Post #: 437

5/19/2012 23:56:42

Zeoth
Member

Finally my first ninja LOL anyways but yea that's my stance on a block reliant skill.

Post #: 438

5/20/2012 0:25:01

Arevero
Member

Very well, I'll take out that idea, got any better ones?

@gold

Chill bruh....

@Zeoth and Liy

SAVE THE BOUNTIES

Post #: 439

5/20/2012 0:30:07

SouL Prisoner
Member

Deadly Aim skill need to be, re-scaled ... its gone way to strong, for even lvl 2 , it gives you +5 damage :/

AQW

Epic

Post #: 440

5/20/2012 2:34:29

kittycat
Member

Deadly Aim doesn't need to be rescaled. It's perfectly fine the way it is. Also, Massacre needs to have an adjusted scaling, oh and for the Multis, it should be dealing 85% damage rather than 75%...

Post #: 441

5/20/2012 3:32:46

Arevero
Member

@kittycat

DA is powerful, it needs a bit of a re-scale...

I do agree multi needs to be higher though

Lastly before we rescale Massacre, re-do SC and SS, it's ridiculous saying Mass hits too much when the other two have their own advantages.

Post #: 442

5/20/2012 5:02:39

Ranloth
Banned

DA was said to be most balanced passive so doubt change will happen for bad (if any at all). Sure it gives +5 damage at Lvl 2 but what weapon do you need? +33 damage one? So that's top Level. If you lower it, chance is that it won't be even worth using at lower Level. Most it can give is +10 damage at Lvl 10. Remember even though it gives that +5 damage at Lvl 2 or whatever, there are moment where no boost is given - in gaps of 2 Levels - so you have to spend more skill points on it. http://epicduelwiki.com/index.php/Deadly_Aim_Scale - look for yourself how progression goes. So you need to farm until about Lvl 30, spend about 10K Credits to get that +4 damage at Lvl 2. Sure it's powerful but that's top Level and we have much more stat points to invest in skills that may deflect it, cushion it (lower damage), whatever.
Why change DA? If it's because of BMs, then you're weakening TMs as well which don't need it (with exception of Casters maybe). If DA is strong for BMs then suggest change for them, not pick out on balanced class just like BHs also are.

Arevero, Mass is dealing high damage and might get small nerf. But remember it deals more to compensate for no effects which SS and SC have. So they won't be equal in damage but Mass will have more damage over SS/SC whilst the other two will have effects and lower damage. But people are right, it scales kinda too much so improving the scaling without giving it much of a nerf would be perfect for BHs and CHs so we won't nerf BHs too much. :)

Epic

Post #: 443

5/20/2012 5:25:58

Arevero
Member

@Trans

Mass is supposed to be high dmg to compensate for the other advantages the ultimates have. On max SC usually deals 60dmg plus HP regain and ignores RES. That's saying a lot. Max Mass requires blades, SUP requirement, 33+ wep dmg, and higher EP cost.

Looking at it this way, Mass shouldn't be buffed or nerfed. Re-scaling should only affect the last 3 lvls. The first 7 lvls is balanced. Last 3 re-scale is fine by me, other than that Mass does not need to be touched.

DA encourages STR on BMs. I still see STR BMs, though not much, which is good to see. But the dmg it does give at 33dmg is quite...high...

Sure, you need a 33dmg gun, but once you do get 1, DA becomes a problem, It's a tier 4 skill, so of course it won't matter too much at lower lvls. And by lv 29 you can get a 33dmg gun. Though it is said to be the most balanced, it is also most efficient, too efficient...

It doesn't need a nerf, just a slight tweak IF possible to not make it too strong. This makes TM have 2 VERY useful passives. BH has 2, one that is sometimes reliable, one luck based.
CH- 1 nerfed so bad, and a luck based.
And you know the rest.

Not saying it's OP, just a bit, unfair to give such a high amount of dmg at such low lvl.

Post #: 444

5/20/2012 5:45:43

Ranloth
Banned

Yeah that's what I meant by rescaling, I'm not sure if nerf was needed and assumed just from previous posts. I'm fine with either as you can counter both with some builds and it's not "One build to rule them all" so some will lose to it. :P
I do see your point but just pointing out that this does affect TMs as well if we're going for a small nerf, whilst BMs may find way out with their skills, TMs will not do so as quickly. So simply, it's problem with BMs and their synergy rather than TMs. Reworking %s may affect lower Levels too much but will be fine for high Levels so there's the problem, if we try to change one then we touch the other which we want to avoid. Support requirement is in place but it's low at lower Levels so doesn't affect BMs as much so what you can do is just do something with DA for BMs, like take it out for other passive but not SA as this would be too weak to substitute for DA. Since Aux-DA is out of the question, we cannot give them Reroute or SC (there's BL already), and passive Armors are also a no for BMs, new passive would be good instead to buff offensive capabilities but not Gun - maybe all weapons by a little or Primary. Or something defensive that isn't passive Armor.

There isn't really other way, DA is fine for TMs but not for BMs. Same case of EMP being fine for BHs but not CHs. Nerf one and it'll affect the other. Lowering %s for it could do fine but even small change would just bring it down by +1 damage to keep the skill good. Would that even satisfy you? Bigger change = skill useless at lower levels & useful at top tier. :/

EDIT:
Had a quick run with Thylek's spreadsheet and DA scales and I tried to get new %s to keep DA balanced and efficient:
Level 1: 5% damage
Level 2: 8% damage
Level 3: 11% damage
Level 4: 14% damage
Level 5: 17% damage
Level 6: 20% damage
Level 7: 23% damage
Level 8: 25% damage
Level 9: 27% damage
Level 10: 28% damage

They are the same as before but scaling is simply different. With +33 damage weapon it's 2 damage at Lvl 1, 3 damage at Lvl 2, (...) 9 damage at Lvl 8 AND 9, 10 damage at Lvl 10. Seems better? :)

I've also made a progression sheet: http://i45.tinypic.com/sy76yt.png
Red cells is when there's no damage difference from previous level. Otherwise the sheet explains itself really. xD

< Message edited by Trans -- 5/20/2012 7:09:30 >

Epic

Post #: 445

5/20/2012 6:16:42

Arevero
Member

@Trans

You bet, sounds better to me, it's such a luxury when i see a problem and you fix it in an instance xD

Post #: 446

5/20/2012 6:20:42

Ranloth
Banned

Well it's really simple, I just lowered the %s at lower level but kept same values + progression is almost constant 3%. :P It's even better when people like them! xD

Epic

Post #: 447

5/20/2012 6:27:07

Arevero
Member

True Dat!

Post #: 448

5/20/2012 6:52:55

drinde
Member

I'm a Bounty and I support a Massacre nerf. With the nerf, them Devs may improve how the class works with other stats. *cough*support*cough*

Epic

Post #: 449

5/20/2012 7:07:47

liy010
Member

@Areevo the only thing wrong with your skills is that the EP gain is too low. 7 EP is not enough for any skill so you'll need a minimum of 2 blocks per battle to actually make use of the EP gain. Block chance also just got lowered so...

Maybe increase to 10 So that you can use a level 1 EMP/Reflex Boost/Cheap Shot?

AQW

Epic

Post #: 450

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