What happened to support builds?


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5/31/2012 12:12:29

Chosen 0ne
Banned

I remember back in beta; the support mercenary was the best in the game; even non variums could do it with the infamous Mjolnir.

Now; I dont want support to be to Oped again; but I would at least like it to work.

Support is and always was my favorite build, and when field medic got nerfed it was a tragedy to me.

Also; support doesnt do as much as it used to. They keep on nerfing the stat.

Support is probably the worst type of build for every class. What can we do about it?

DF

Post #: 1

5/31/2012 12:55:04

Arcanis
Member

We - nothing. Its defensive usage has been reduced even more since Azraels borg.
Offensive is limited do to the domination of primary weapon usage over aux. Deflection moved to teh,medic independent from it.
First strike usage reduced to almost no difference. EMP and burst of damage governs ATM,support just can't cope with it.

AQ

MQ

Post #: 2

5/31/2012 13:00:48

veneeria
Member

Yep.

This is what I was thinking about yesterday, been looking at the balance and suggestion stuff for a while because of it. People might have good ideas, including myself.
Although, I really think deflection should keep a tech thing, support should have a nice new fresh awesome look to it.

AQ

Post #: 3

5/31/2012 13:27:06

Wootz
Member

Ohai, I use an Support build.

Post #: 4

5/31/2012 16:36:58

rej
Member

Yes please. All of the intelligent forum users have already admitted that support builds are under powered. Perhaps it is finally time to do something about it?

_____________________________

It is difficult to enjoy your cake when your pants are on fire.
~Dragon of Time

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 5

5/31/2012 16:37:18

King Helios
Member

Well, you're you.

What's the Win %?

AQ

MQ

Post #: 6

5/31/2012 16:54:20

RabbleFroth
Member

We just recently made Support have a significant impact on who goes first in battle.

We are also considering a few other options for making support more appealing. We agree that it's a bit less useful than the other stats.

Post #: 7

5/31/2012 16:57:35

Chosen 0ne
Banned

Thanks for the news rabble. :)

DF

Post #: 8

6/1/2012 1:19:42

ReconnaisX
Member

Well, I have this semi-successful support build that could be improved except I don't have (Rusted) Assualt Bot. But yes, support is kind of useless. The last Support build I saw...approximately 3 and a half weeks ago.

MQ

Post #: 9

6/1/2012 11:01:21

Lord Nub
Member

What happened was, they saw an overpowered build then fixed the issue. Problem was, they continued fixing the issue with every release to the point it became a useless build.

Is there a such thing as a build that isn't strength or technology based? Support doesn't improve medic, barely helps with first turn with some percentage unknown to the players, no longer affects deflects, and we now have a 75% damage multi vs 2 players.

Why does every release push players closer and closer to strength and technology builds? I see a nerf coming in the future....it's the ED way afterall....completely obliterate great builds some of us have come up with, with multiple nerfs over time which in turn increase the effectiveness of a select few other builds and everyone runs off to it. There is little to no diversity in this game anymore and it's just going to get worse.

P.S. What happened to Beta Weapons? It seems my blaster went up a stat point and auxillary lost two....where was this mentioned in the design notes?

AQ

Post #: 10

6/1/2012 13:21:36

Stabilis
Member

For Support I would...

First remove: +5 damage bonus, critical strike, stun

Second add: ~~armour ignore~~, ancillary weapon (comparable to what a Sidearm is to Strength)

If I have more suggestions to Support I will post them here.

I believe that Strength and Support weapons should share the same AVERAGE cooldown... so a ranged weapon or melee weapon that improves by Support AND has no cooldown is necessary to balance the 2 stats.

It should be a melee weapon though, that balances blocking and deflecting much more appropriately.

AQ

Post #: 11

6/1/2012 13:30:19

nico0las
Member

We in the business have two words to describe why it vanished:
Heal Nerf.

Why? Simply because healing represents the largest part of the defense for Support classes (Excluding maybe defense matrix for the mages).
Since they're missing that, they must choose to loose either Mineral armor, Reroute, or Multi (none of which the build can survive without).
Since the class only has 3/4 of it's necessities, the other three being the abilities listed above, the build can't stand. Like a car with only three wheels.
It just can't go forward, it falls on it's side.

This is the same for the mages. We need Malfunction, defense matrix, reroute, and heal. Since heal is gone, the build no longer works.

< Message edited by nico0las -- 6/5/2012 19:27:51 >

MQ

Post #: 12

6/1/2012 13:52:31

RabbleFroth
Member

We have talked a little bit about changing up Field Medic to allow for low scaling off Support. Other changes would have to be included with an update like that, but it's not completely off the table.

Also, from the previous patch notes that changed First Strike calculations: (Need to increase visibility on these if we plan to keep doing them)

quote:

FIRST STRIKE CALCULATIONS
Warning: Technical math mumbo jumbo ahead!

Old Method:
     Chance to go first = (yourSupport / totalSupport)
     Players 3 or more levels under the average level in the battle are guaranteed to go first.
New Method:
     First Strike Points = (yourSupport - (6 * (yourLevel - minimumLevelInBattle)) ^ 2
     Chance to go first = firstStrikePoints / totalFirstStrikePoints
     Level alone does not guarantee anyone will go first.

Basically you are penalized by 6 Support for each level over the minimum you are. Then your support is squared to find out your "First Strike Points." All of the points are added together, and your points divided by the total is your chance to go first. This means lower level players will be given an advantage, but if you have built a lot into Support and they have not, you can overcome this advantage. This applies especially to Juggernauts as they are always the highest level in the fight.

Example - 1v1 with two level 25 players:
Player A has 40 Support
Player B has 20 Support
Old System: Player A has 66% chance to go first
New System: Player A has 80% chance to go first

Post #: 13

6/1/2012 14:00:18

FrostWolv
Member

quote:

Example - 1v1 with two level 25 players:
Player A has 40 Support
Player B has 20 Support
Old System: Player A has 66% chance to go first
New System: Player A has 80% chance to go first

cant there be a way ... at same level the one with more support always go first!!

_____________________________

Epic	Post #: 14

6/1/2012 14:12:40

Stabilis
Member

I think the same way.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 6/1/2012 14:14:00 >

AQ

Post #: 15

6/2/2012 3:07:34

Power Of The Chosen
Member

support is still so beast, with high dex, shadow arts, and stun. i use a build somewhere along the lines of that and i was able to beat hank without him even hitting me at all, and doing 4crits, and a stun :D lol.

< Message edited by Power Of The Chosen -- 6/2/2012 3:41:26 >

AQ

MQ

Post #: 16

6/2/2012 3:45:26

Midnightsoul
Member

Nerf azrael borg...to 50% and blockable
There has to be some kind of contract that says u promise not to sue ED and that youre responsible for playing it so ppl cant sue ED for nerfing azrael borg since it was promotional

DF

Post #: 17

6/2/2012 13:54:22

Retrosaur
Member

Nope. Support Mage is now officially OP.

I've seen Mages with a 52 malf-ish, and coupled with Energy Aux's and Deadly Aim, can really leave a dent in many players. Trust me, you haven't seen the worst of it.

Post #: 18

6/2/2012 15:26:15

ReconnaisX
Member

^The Rusted Assault Bot then killed the great malfunction, am I right?
When my BM was a TM, support mages were great. When Field Medic was nerfed, I could still scrape by a bit. When the Rusted Assault Bot was released, I decided to change to BM.

MQ

Post #: 19

6/2/2012 15:44:34

Joe10112
Member

SUP Mercs still work. I've seen a few SUP TLM and they are rocking out with high multi and field commander.

I've seen some SUP and TECH mercs with their bunker, SS, and multi, AND blood commander. It was interesting.

Never seen a SUP mage yet...although I did, a long time ago. Believe me, it was bad. I was a BH = Physical Primary = they defense matrix = O.O, malfunction OP, and then a few points into Plasma Bolt is deadly. It was bad.

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 20

6/3/2012 0:43:17

InceptionAE
Member

I think that, they should buff support and increase the heal by like 5% of the heal you have.

So if you have total 100 support, you get 5 more health because of the 5% should be a good buff. Though any ideas guys? I wish we could have a forum petition to bring support back. Because even when it caused me to lose or win or whatever happens, it was always fun. I'm bored as hell now, and I want ED to bring back support which would bring back the fun everyone had. ESPECIALLY if Agility has taken a less affect. Like make starter health at 65/70 and they can increase health without agility affecting them as bad. It'd be fun.

AQ

DF

MQ

Post #: 21

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