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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX

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6/27/2012 2:00:35   
kittycat
Member

It is really hard to get tanky as a Tech Mage. I find it somewhat displeasing to have a bunch of Cyber Hunters having OP power as a whole. 2 Level 34 Varium CH's means 100% they win the battle.
AQ MQ  Post #: 401
6/29/2012 4:11:19   
8x
Member

I think cyber hunter emp should be replaced with energy draining skill that works like atom smasher.
Epic  Post #: 402
6/29/2012 5:22:09   
Remorse
Member

I think the bio borg thorns should be buffed to include ALL strength based attacks (Includes side arm, fireball etc.)

WHY? Bio borg is basically useless at high levels since your wasting a possible rage giving turn for the oppoenent to possibly damage themselves once...... most players can get out of striking you with 2 gun shots, an aux, heal, boosters it's pathetic...


Bio borg should be buffed and it will give the necesary boost to builds that arnt tanks nor reliy on STR and it makes the OPEd STR builds counterable.


OR, perhaps make bio borg last only 3 strikes BUT the sheild stays active for as long as it take the oppoenent to damage themselves 3 times with thorns.


More reasoning: for bio borg sheild to be worth it, the player should get at leat two hits off it so basically the oppoenent strikes themsleves for a turn (2 50%'s =100%) BUT the player who casts bio borg also misses out on rage meaning the bio borg is NOT usally worth it unles the oppnent is effected 3 times or more.


I also think the yeti should be buffed to extened the cool down on guns and auxses to 3 turn or perhaps make the special hit with 80% power raher then 50% power and if its blocked the damage should be blocked BUT NOT the special effect.
quote:

From the thread about venom incase for continuing discussion I personally think the problem with poision is that it has to be either a really high level or nothing.


The attack itslef is worse then what a player would usally do therefore poision has to be a high level and has to have a high energy cost.



I think poision should be buffed slightly to make the skill "worth attaining" at low to medium levels.


Perhaps something like an duration effect not effected by the level of the venom skill.

eg.

Poisoned players gain 30% less rage for the duration.

Or

Poisoned players cannot critical strike for the duration.

Or

Poisoned players cannot stun for the duration

Or

Poisoned players damage is reduced by 10% for the duration.

etc.


This will make venom strike and toxic grenade actuly worth investing 1 or 2 points into it without having to max or near max it.


< Message edited by Remorse -- 6/29/2012 15:40:06 >
Epic  Post #: 403
6/29/2012 21:52:54   
codenamespartan117
Member

Easy fix for blood mage OP ness either give a new skill i order to make blood mages firebolt blockable like a hitting move, or make it improve through dex
AQW Epic  Post #: 404
6/29/2012 21:54:59   
Death Jr
Member

Maybe there should be a damage cap for casting skills like maybe 65.
Post #: 405
6/29/2012 23:14:38   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 General 2v2 match balance observations...

1. With 1000 players on the server, how can I end up fighting virtually the SAME players, either partners
or opponents in various combinations for about an hour...

2. It's irritating to get the same partner, who you cannot win a match with, 2 or 3 times IN A ROW...

3. Out of about 20 matches, 7 or 8 kill shots were deflected, allowing them to live. Seems a little odd,
even FREQUENT, wouldn't you say?

4. In those same 20 matches, either cheap shot or static charge was BLOCKED in about 15 or 16 matches.
It's so bad, I have 79 energy because I CANNOT RELY AT ALL on static charge... I have to plan on it
being blocked, no matter how low their resistance, or whether they're malfed, or whether it's on rage. In
fact it's the worst on rage...so all the "regain energy at will" complainers can kiss off...you have no idea
what it's like living through a good skill getting nerfed and manipulated down to crap status. Wait, OK
multi qualifies for that...

1+2+3+4 = I R R I T A T I N G

In ED's defense, I also get blocks and deflects, but rarely on a kill shot, like the lower levels do.

Consider LOWERING the general block and deflect values on dex and tech if you're not going to change them over.
...and if you do change one or the other to support, do yourself a favor and anticipate the abusers and limit
or reverse the benefit when a stat begins getting abused. It is FREAKISHLY BORING to have 10 blocks or deflects
in a match...
Post #: 406
6/30/2012 1:00:20   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @archlord

1. More people prefer 1vs1 because it's much faster to do.
2. See number 1
3. Luck complaint.
4. Same as 3.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 407
6/30/2012 1:34:27   
RageSoul
Member

@ND
Not sure if you've noticed but i don't think he's really complaining there. That only shows that the minimums ruining balance .
AQW Epic  Post #: 408
6/30/2012 6:29:50   
Archlord Raistlin
Member
 

 @ND ... You need to get over the luck complaint gig...my posts are not an attack on you personally

I'm calling them as I see them and hope it makes someone think, unlike some who don't really look at
what I'm trying to say and just call it a flame or a complaint. There is crap that goes on in this game that
does not conform to any rules that I am aware of and they make no sense whatsoever...so yeah my
comments are sarcastic and I will continue to point out weird things that shouldn't happen on such a
regular basis. They do nothing to contribute to balance in 2v2.

That does not mean I care any less about the game than you, or the other "regulars" who dominate this
forum and talk about this new skill or that new nerf, etc... Does anyone ever come back with a logical
explanation on what causes these things to occur? One that even I could understand and accept? Like
why my normal gun hit is the exception not the rule, or why my static charge is now blocked about 50%
of the time, or why my 5 focus gamma bot is blocked more than if I have 2 or 3 focus? Of course not,
it's much easier to keep it hidden in the programming...

The fact is, the 2v2 game is more frustrating than it's ever been and yes, I would like to see some overall
class balance improvements, less battle manipulation to get there and not just 1v1 balance "cause
everyone plays it"...

Post #: 409
6/30/2012 18:31:36   
Death Jr
Member

@ Above

The only way to fix this and I hope this will be put in game is to lower the span of levels. Instead of 5 levels why not 3 or 2.
Post #: 410
7/1/2012 6:14:41   
khalidon5000
Member

Have you guys noticed that adrenaline is useless in 1v1?
Why can't it add a chance to connect or a small passive damage increase?
Right now it is the worst passive in 1v1.
Epic  Post #: 411
7/1/2012 7:09:53   
Remorse
Member

I think adreniline should be changed into a sort of rage gaining sheild.




were isntead of just extra % to all rage gained.

Instaed it should be like an increase on rage when damage is tacken not given.


this means this skill could be used as a counter to high damage builds such as blood mages or STR BHs.

It means if you hit the mercs they gain decent rage so if you hit really powerful and hard they will gain rage very fast.


like wise this will not support tanks as much since its ahrd to hit tanks hard and therefore get alot of rage though adrenaline.

this change will give use to 1v1 and allow mercs not to have to focus on high defences only.
Epic  Post #: 412
7/1/2012 7:18:24   
drinde
Member

What if instead of increasing rage gain, it decreases the total rage needed to fill the meter?
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 413
7/1/2012 7:24:04   
Remorse
Member

^ Wouldnt that just make it almost the same as what it is now??


Epic  Post #: 414
7/1/2012 7:27:00   
Ranloth
Banned


 My original suggestion list: https://docs.google.com/document/d/17hA9WgUBdLv9ly1EfXuANvhHW-hzsvcLI9NWSYe3jBE/edit
quote:

Perhaps making Adrenaline reduce enemy's rage by whatever it is at your level? So at Lvl 10, it gives you Rage 20% faster and you could make your enemy get it 20% slower too. In 2v2, it could be tougher but you could just split the effect of reducing between the two so 10% less each, unless there are 2 Mercs so they'd stack to maximum of 20% each on the enemy.

It should make Adrenaline more useful across all modes really, including 1v1.
AQ Epic  Post #: 415
7/1/2012 7:39:02   
Remorse
Member

@ trans,
Im liking that idea more then what adrnaline is currently, but it does contradict the whole point of rage which is a counter for tanks.


Perhaps instead of claculating by level it was claculated by the damage received less defences for example.


a merc has 30 def, and get hit for 50 so thats 20 damage.

adrenaline at max is say 50%, so 50% of 20 damage is 10 therefore the opponeents rage is reduced by 10%. except when the oppoenent has a full rage bar.


10% may not seem like much but when you consider every turn the oppoenent will end up losng quite a bit of rage but that amount is less if they are versing a tanky merc because the damage they recienve is less therfore arenaline will be less effective for tanks, which is good because then it wont contradict the purpose of rage.

Remorse Less.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/1/2012 7:41:32 >
Epic  Post #: 416
7/1/2012 7:42:28   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah it was made to counter Tanks but if you tank yourself, enemy will rage quicker and Adrenaline would slow that down. Or even with 'normal' build, if you try to shield yourself (which is impossible since it's just HA), then they rage quicker and since there's no Shield to defend yourself, slowing down their rage will help you. Pretty much compensation for having no Shield; lowering their rage regeneration brings the average DpT down for them since they will rage turn later at least which is effectively like using a Shield which lowers their damage but greatly speeds up their rage regeneration.
AQ Epic  Post #: 417
7/1/2012 7:45:58   
Remorse
Member

^ I supose since mercs no longer have a sheild then I agree with your method aswell.



I forgot about mercs not having a sheild xD
Epic  Post #: 418
7/1/2012 7:59:25   
Ranloth
Banned


 Yeah, and no EP regen nor fixed HP either makes it tougher + Adrenaline is slightly weak so yeah. :P
AQ Epic  Post #: 419
7/1/2012 12:51:50   
VIX
Member

Hey Guys,

Recently all the classes are boring now and it's really really making a lot of people not battling we need something to be changed in classes like adding new skills or 3 new classes or buff some classes with better skills.

Merc Tank builds can be made on Mercs , Strength fail and all others fails. I've Spent more then 10k varium Trying Classes. and merc was only good as tank and it's boring like hell so low.

TLM was before good now it's useless cuz a lot of people who are CH with this Skill called Plasma Armor if a CH put more Dex there is no change for merc\TLM to win. and i'm very sure about this.

TM are good but classes are a lil bit unbalanced so mage can't do much now , i'm not saying it's bad but can't do much like before.

BM are good if they start 1st if they don't start so still no chance for them to win.

BH is the better class but it's now boring. so i think classes should be balanced

What you think guys about new classes ? or new skills for MERC, TLM , TM , BM , TM , BH ?

-VIX
Epic  Post #: 420
7/1/2012 12:58:07   
Ranloth
Banned


 This thread is for existing balance issues, and new Classes belong in Suggestion Forum next time. Besides we're already discussing buffs and nerfs here if you've read our posts, we either suggest them or give feedback - we don't need people to ask us to suggest since we already do it. ;)
AQ Epic  Post #: 421
7/1/2012 13:47:33   
Remorse
Member

^ Exactly most of them ignored and forgoten.


Also the reason why classes are boring is because of the major variety contrictions due to poor balance.

Back in beta despite having onlly 3 classes there was ALOT more variety.

SO the problem lies on poor balance.

Buffing is DEFNIANATELY NOT the answer since its too much power being the problem.


Reduction in power is needed to bring back strategy and variety and to do this you REMOVE OR CHANGE ENHANCEMENTS!


Put this all togther and ultimately il bet my epic duel character that rmeoving enhancements would improve variety, balance, fun and make the classes more interesting.
Not to mention reducing the var non var gap and reduce the massively overpriced amount to play this game at a high level.



< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/1/2012 13:52:03 >
Epic  Post #: 422
7/1/2012 16:29:57   
zion
Member

It seems that the task of balancing 6 classes is proving too difficult for our dedicated staff. Why not return the original three classes to how they were in [beta? gamma?] and make the three newer classes a bit stronger? This would create an "evolution stage" for the game: You have a one-time payment (~2k Varium ~100k credits) to evolve from your base class to the corresponding evolved class that is stronger. Then you can switch between the two during retraining if your build/battle-mode preferences change. The evolved classes should be a bit stronger overall - therefore you only have to balance the original classes versus each other and the evolved classes versus each other - a much simpler task. If you want to change to a different class altogether, it can be like 4k Var or 200k credits - this way all the classes will be well represented due to fewer bandwagon jumpers.
What do you think?
If people like this, I will publish some ideas for the exact skill trees of the proposed classes - but not until after finals
--Noiz
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 423
7/2/2012 1:21:55   
Remorse
Member

@gk365,


Sry I do not support evolution classes being stronger.

But I do agree with returning things to previous phases but not complteltely reverse everything.



Perhaps the reason why the devs havnt been able to manage proper balance with ALL classes is not because there is too many classes but perhaps because of enhancements.
If you think abaout it balance actuly started getting really bad when during my most hated update ever the relase of enahncements on guns and auxialries easter 1 year ago.....



If the devs would only TEST balance without enhancements they will see!

But if enahncements were removed some follow up balance changes need to occur.

-Plasma armour needs to be swaped for technician. for CHs.
-Mineral armour needs to be swaped for defence matrix. and field comander swapped for smoke back agian. for TLMs.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 7/2/2012 1:24:19 >
Epic  Post #: 424
7/2/2012 2:29:32   
Ranloth
Banned


 What's the point of constantly saying enhancements ruined the balance and go on about it in every topic, instead of suggesting how to fix it? It gets tiring and repetitive since these kind of things make this forum stricter just because it's starting to be flamatory..

Plasma Armor is staying for CHs and so is Mineral. Smoke is never coming back unless you take out Reroute which Devs thought of but went with Smoke - why have Energy Regen, passive Armor AND debuff? It made TLMs OP in first place, you want an OP class yourself. There are ways to fix it such as giving Technician back to them, and lower cost of Stun Grenade to make it more efficient for its cost. Also slight boost to Frenzy would also help their Str build. Intimidate could be put in place of FC since FC promotes Tanking of the class with really high Support and high Defences but Intimidate would help all the builds to lower enemy's damage, be a debuff and reduce tanking issue.
Besides there'll be revamp of all passives, hence why Plasma Armor is staying, and Mineral would obviously stay since they are Mercenary class. All passives will be brought down to power of Deadly Aim/Adrenaline; not literally but they will be made so you aren't forced to have them to win but they should help you in some way with your build IF you wish to train it.

This topic isn't for flaming as of to why Devs ruined the game. Don't like it, either suggest how this can be fixed or quit. Simple as. If you flame Devs constantly, it won't end up well, and Rabble said that he will take care of enhancements at some point when he has free time so you can always wait.
AQ Epic  Post #: 425
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