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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion IX

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7/27/2012 22:20:39   
shadesofblue
Member

^I believe that spamming support and strength will create a weaker build than just spamming strength; and only spamming support would result in an in-effective build.
AQW  Post #: 601
7/27/2012 22:56:14   
Stabilis
Member

^

Splitting Strength and Support in a Blood Mage is OK. Although the DoT would be lower, the adding a third weapon opens up more elemental seeking opportunities. In my one Str-Sup build, I was able to use all Strength and Support skills to great effect. Low Reflex Boost and Energy Shield and Intimidate were all acceptable options. Reflex Boost in the build restored my energy if not giving a melee advantage over other Blood Mages. Energy Shield generally gave an advantage over Tech Mages and Cyber Hunters. Intimidate gave an advantage over other Strength types, whether they were Bounty Hunter, Cyber Hunter, or other Blood Mages. Deadly Aim had no drawbacks. The DoT as said before is lower than purely Strength, but has multiple scenario tools... which allowed the build to succeed more than fail in all battle modes.
AQ Epic  Post #: 602
7/28/2012 0:51:10   
GoldenNeo
Member

I think Tactical Mercenaries need a debuff skill too. 'Coz I've been thinking, all of the classes have debuff and buff, but TLM's only have a buff(Field Commander)

I guess it would be fair if they would swap Field Commander for Smoke Screen.
AQW Epic  Post #: 603
7/28/2012 1:00:35   
Rayman
Banned


 ^
And make them op again.
AQW Epic  Post #: 604
7/28/2012 1:09:50   
GoldenNeo
Member

^Nah, Some people consider Tactical Mercenaries as one of the dead classes. They're like on the bottom of the food chain
AQW Epic  Post #: 605
7/28/2012 1:31:19   
King Helios
Member

How about:

Heal - Double - Mineral

Maul - Technician / Intimidate - Field Comm.

Reroute - Frenzy - Multi

Surgical - Atom - Poison

AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 606
7/28/2012 5:52:27   
Ranloth
Banned


 @Helios
Intimidate is still considered a debuff that's why BMs have it + BL (so they cannot have passive Armor). And TLMs have Reroute and passive Armor so no debuff for them. It works for every other class.
Give them Technician back and either buff Grenades or give them Maul back as you said. Frenzy is lowered from what it was before so they cannot go for overkill Maul and Frenzy and abuse Strength as much. But knowing this, many people suggested it months back and we hadn't had any feedback from Devs nor any balance update.. :/
AQ Epic  Post #: 607
7/28/2012 9:56:12   
Stabilis
Member

Atom Smasher is a possible skill to remove. Hey, let us remove all EMP skills while we are still talking about them. Atom Smasher either needs hours of work to fix, or just scrap it. Why? Well, Atom Smasher has multiple key components that disrupt it's own balance. Unlike EMP Grenade, Atom Smasher removes more energy proportional to the damage of Strike- while EMP Grenade removes more energy proportional to the Technology count. Before continuing, a skill that concedes with exploiting the Strength stat already seems irrational. As seen here, Atom Smasher does not have a smooth rate of increase. At any given level, the Primary weapons' damage could change by more than 2 points and the stat modifiers and requirements may change even more. The next component to Atom Smasher is being labelled as a melee skill... a skill that can still be blocked. I am not sure about you, but if energy goes into using a skill, it better well succeed. EMP Grenade can not be stopped fully or halfway, and that is good, that is why it is worth the energy cost.

Atom Smasher may potentially be considered to also improve by Dexterity! Without Dexterity to connect a melee attack, the skill may have power, but lack control, cutting it's balance rating by half (it needs 2 stats to improve normally) down to 50% effective. Sure, let us assume there are no blocks, Atom Smasher would not be so much of a weaker skill as it is today. But there are blocks, and Atom Smasher can be blocked and fail 100% in every way without connection. The third component is Atom Smasher's low energy cost. Well, in my opinion that is a good thing! With the lack of emphasis of energy on players (since when do you normally see people with 60 HP/ 140 EP as opposed to 140 HP / 60 EP?), our skills should cost little energy. The other difference between Atom Smasher and EMP Grenade is that Atom Smasher costs 66% of what EMP Grenade costs. Both increase by 1 energy point per skill level. But, to repair Atom Smasher's damage or mechanics, this may overpower Atom Smasher if the energy cost is unchanged. If it were to be unblockable, Atom Smasher would have similar damage values compared to EMP Grenade but cost much less energy. Specific examples cannot be taken for granted as not everyone uses the same Primary (or equipment to say blandly), so one player's Strike damage due to modifiers and requirements may be totally different from another player. Atom Smasher is unreliably powerful for Strength exploiters mainly, but is still unreliable with blocking which in my opinion is not strategic enough to depend on so I would opt to remove it instead of change it.


UPDATE: Which level tier should all EMP-style skills be in?

I say that they should be in the last tier.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 7/31/2012 15:26:16 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 608
7/31/2012 16:21:30   
helloguy
Member

When will the staff change Bm the class that obviously isn't OP ~ End sarcasm

Logic being who will ever put Bloodlust and Deadly aim together after what happened to the old OP Bounty hunter that had Diamond Blades
We all know what happened then

< Message edited by helloguy -- 7/31/2012 16:32:59 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 609
8/1/2012 2:09:44   
GoldenNeo
Member

Oh how I wish the Juggernaut battles would be a less harder.
AQW Epic  Post #: 610
8/1/2012 12:02:48   
AQWPlayer
Member

@GoldenNeo
I think jugg was made for var players...and being able to jugg as a nonvar which gives you a win % higher than normal 1v1 is a priviledge :O

< Message edited by AQWPlayer -- 8/1/2012 12:03:11 >
AQW  Post #: 611
8/1/2012 13:00:55   
Ez_Ease
Member

While I generally role with the punches and try to adapt when fighting.
I do think the TLM needs a deduffing skill, I would prefer smoke screen,
intimidate or malfunction. I know some will say it will make them OP,
but when you look at a CH, they are just an energy version of a TLM.

Lets look at a hypothetical fight.
Turn 1 TLM uses smoke screen and the CH uses malfuntion.
Results can be the same both can be block but the reduction in
either physical or resistance is done.

Turn 2 TLM uses atom smasher and the CH uses and emp grenade.
Results now can vary, atom smaher is cheaper to use and can take
away a good amout of energy, but is blockable and results in a wasted turn.
Emp grenade ia not blockable and can be very devestating if built right
and used againt an opponent that cant regenerate energy.

Turn 3 is where things are a bit different.
TLM can choose any move here, but through 3 rounds he trades life
for energy. The CH can use static charge if max can get back almost
a 1/3 of the dmg done as energy also a zero cost to use, but it is blockable
and I have benefited when that has happen.

Now a CH has the ability to buff there physical defense and the TLM
can buff his resistance but again at a cost of Hit points or life. Both have a passive armor
only one has the ability to buff what it does not has without trading Hit points or life. Plus having shadow arts gives
them a slight increase in not getting hit and if they have a stun grenade a better chance to stun.

I would like to see something that I can use that will allow me to reduce my opponents abillity.
Untill then I will make do with what I have. I have gotten better at beating CH just takes me a
while to do it and things have to go right.

Have a great day
Epic  Post #: 612
8/1/2012 15:01:38   
doomturtle
Member

He makes a good point adding smoke to tlm will balance tlms with cybers

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AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 613
8/1/2012 16:06:26   
AQWPlayer
Member

^
BUT before that, there are other classes to buff first. They do deserve priority, after all.
AQW  Post #: 614
8/1/2012 16:34:35   
Ranloth
Banned


 Smoke isn't coming back, are people kinda.. stubborn? Why would they take it away and give it back for TLMs to be OP again? If you need it for your Strength builds, why not ask for Technician and Maul back which would help you a lot + keep balance? Technician should come back + it enhances your SS too, and Maul allows you to get better Stun when you train and ignore some defences which is fine since Frenzy was nerfed before.
AQ Epic  Post #: 615
8/1/2012 17:11:50   
Ez_Ease
Member

Everyone is stubborn at some point and but that is beside the point. :-) The point of my statement is that the TLM is the only class that lacks the ability bring down a person stat whether it be strength, dex, or tech. While techician is okay, and yes it works well with SS but does not last as long as my BS even though I have to give up a little life to use it. I prefer not to go with a SS build. I dont like strength builds all that much the general trade of is defense, I increase my strength from what was 17-21 to 21-26 because I see an area where I can exploit most strengh build BM. If they decide to give a debuffing skill fine, if not still fine, like I said I will adapt. Maul is fine will wait and see what happens.
Epic  Post #: 616
8/2/2012 1:28:08   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Why are we wanting to bring Tac Mercs' back to Cyber Hunter level?

Passive Armor + Energy Regain + Strong Defence Removing skill + Passive Dodging Skill + Solid Energy Take =
Way too many advantages

Switch out either the passive armor (which will not happen) or Shadow arts.
3 skills that most CH's use that don't cost any energy make them too passive, combine that with fairly high, devastating damage, that's a little crazy. I believe we should nerf Cyber hunters. Not to the point of uselessness, but to the point of them being balanced with Bounty hunter, their counterpart.

As for Tac Merc's, I wouldn't quite say they should stay the way they are, but do NOT add any de-buffing skill. Any single skill de-buff would make this class OP again. Malfunction or Smoke would make their strength far too high. If you were to add Intimidate, it would make their poison-tank builds or even just tank builds far too strong to bear. I believe that it should go on par with Cyber Hunter if they were to nerf Cyber Hunter a little. For Tac Merc, all they need is Technician and Maul, that alone would put them up to par. It would give them the option of a tank build, a tank/technology build, a poison build or even a borderline strength build.

Now for the one that needs balance the most, Blood Mage. It was on the bottom of the food chain, then it was buffed up to the top. First things first, remove Deadly Aim all together. It made the strength build just that much easier to use. Second, make Fireball increase with support, at very least, if they start using a support build, they can't hit so hard every single turn. Second, move fireball to where Deadly Aim is, and put Overload in it's place. Change the position of Bludgeon and Reflex Boost, so it takes one more skill point to get to Bludgeon, and might help make some dexterity builds. Or possibly, also give Blood Mage a a new "final skill" to replace Super Charge. That way, if support builds catch on with it, they will need to use higher points in energy so they can't put an extreme amount of points into support. Also, make the requirement for Fireball strength, that way, the need "X" strength so they can use their Fireball which increases with support.

How about it, do you think these changes would work? Anything I should change?

Edit: Also, the final skill for Blood Mage would increase with Support.

< Message edited by Blaze The Aion Ender -- 8/2/2012 1:46:44 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 617
8/2/2012 1:40:14   
edwardvulture
Member

Blood shield should reflect damage
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 618
8/2/2012 1:42:44   
Magiskee
Member

Why is it that everyone wants to completely wreck str Blood Mage? Although they do need nerfing, they shouldn't be nerfed beyond uselessness like many have suggested.

< Message edited by Magiskee -- 8/2/2012 1:43:49 >

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Post #: 619
8/2/2012 1:47:44   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

@Edward
Maybe only Energy damage, or it would just pretty much be the bio borg special
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 620
8/2/2012 13:10:34   
King Helios
Member

How about making Bludgeon require a sword. That way, they still have Fireball and Bludgeon, but can only use one. This would make things sooo much easier.
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 621
8/2/2012 13:15:27   
shadesofblue
Member

^Brilliant. But since that would wreck tech mages too, we should make a special bludgeon skill just for Blood Mages.
AQW  Post #: 622
8/2/2012 13:16:28   
King Helios
Member

^Tech mages wouldn't be wrecked if we give them an Energy Bludgeon. *wink*Bad idea w/malf.

Just make it require a sword for Blood Mages.

< Message edited by King Helios -- 8/2/2012 13:17:44 >
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 623
8/2/2012 13:18:22   
shadesofblue
Member

^I don't know if the staff can code that :S I think a skill needs to have a different name for it to have different requirements.....I dunno.

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 8/2/2012 13:19:30 >
AQW  Post #: 624
8/2/2012 13:19:28   
King Helios
Member

^True. See why I slashed that?
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 625
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