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=HS= PvP Balance Discussion Thread II

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6/4/2012 8:27:07   
Plasma Charge
Legendary AdventureGuide!
quote:

With the introduction of PvP comes the issue of balance (and imbalance)! Do you feel a power is underpowered? Overpowered? Is a certain combo working too well? This is the place to the discuss any PvP balance issues.

Please remember, try back up your post with numbers and statistics whenever possible.


Thanks to Ashari for posting the original thread.


As the first thread (which is here!) has reached it's ten page limit,
you can continue the discussion in this shiny new one!

As of the 4th of June the following powers are flagged to be considered:

Surge

Chudling Rash

Plasma Net

Let's Get Balancing! (And I don't mean on uni-cycles =P)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
6/4/2012 10:52:53   
blank452
Member

Full stats of powers:

Surge:
41 energy, 20 sec
Initial Heal ~459.5
18 sec Surge
Surge effect:
~79% Energy power increase
~70% Energy resist increase

Chudling Rash:
61 energy, 12 sec
Initial Hit ~37.5
10 sec DoT, 5 tick, ~51 per tick
10 sec En-DoT, 5 tick, 13 per tick
10 sec Haste debuff ~33%

Plasma Net:
41 energy, 25sec
Initial Hit ~19
6 sec DoT, 3 tick, ~78.5 per tick
6 sec Bonus to Hit debuff
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 2
6/4/2012 17:35:59   
Sir Night
Member

quote:

As of the 4th of June the following powers are flagged to be considered:

Surge

Chudling Rash

Plasma Net

Let's Get Balancing! (And I don't mean on uni-cycles =P)


Alright! Well, now that we're making some actual progress, you should probably add Super Intellect to that list as well. The 100% power boost alone would already make it one of the strongest power-ups in the game (tied only with Reen's Rampage). Let alone the fact that it also gives you a 50% better chance to land a critical attack.

Now, to further expand on Surge. Compare it to Mutate. It gives a bigger power boost, a much bigger heal, and a loopable defense boost that you don't get with Mutate at all. It's just better in every way.
Post #: 3
6/4/2012 18:05:52   
plebster
Member

Easy method to solve mental overpoweredness: take away super intellect lvl 20. The lvl 15 one is the next one down and it only has a 70% mental buff, unlike the lvl 20 100% buff. I said to take it away instead of just debuffing it because it cost ACs so it would be unfair to make it weaker. So I think taking the overpowered one away is the most sensible way to solve it.

Oh yeah and thanks plasma charge for your modding, it's getting some progress with this thread! :D

< Message edited by plebster -- 6/4/2012 18:11:47 >
AQW  Post #: 4
6/4/2012 18:06:07   
Antithesis
Member

quote:

The 100% power boost alone would already make it one of the strongest power-ups in the game (tied only with Reen's Rampage).


I disagree with touching Super Intellect's overall buff. Once the DoT-HoT buff issue is fixed, I think it'll be balanced.

Mental powers are very lacking in secondary effects outside their powerful DoT. Mental can do a lot of damage, but it can NOT decrease haste, decrease accuracy, ect ect.

Because of this, Super Intellect is the only thing keeping Mental a truly viable option in PvP. Leave it how it is.



quote:

Easy method to solve mental overpoweredness: take away super intellect lvl 20. The lvl 15 one is the next one down and it only has a 70% mental buff, unlike the lvl 20 100% buff. I said to take it away instead of just debuffing it because it cost ACs so it would be unfair to make it weaker. So I think taking the overpowered one away is the most sensible way to solve it.


My post applies to this too

< Message edited by Antithesis -- 6/4/2012 18:12:40 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
6/4/2012 18:23:13   
plebster
Member

Hmm, yeah, if the DoT/HoT bug (can I name it 'superdot' in future?) was fixed, mental would probably be fine. If it does get fixed, then I think eye boil would certainly need a buff. If it doesn't get fixed, and I know this may sound silly, but I think ice barrage could get a buff.

Oh I just remembered, taser neeeeeds a debuff. It's too efficient for how powerful it is with that maximum 90% haste debuff. Although it does contradict my point about AC powers not to be affected.

< Message edited by plebster -- 6/4/2012 18:27:01 >
AQW  Post #: 6
6/4/2012 18:36:46   
Sir Night
Member

I'd say Physical needs a much better power-up than what it has now. Either Reen's Rampage should be buffed, or we should get a Super Power version of Animal Fury. Here's why I say that:

It is true that physical power-ups strengthen your auto-attacks, which is a significant advantage. But that is easily compensated for (if not over-compensated for) by the fact that physical powers tend to be nearly useless. Even Gore is killed by it's long cooldown time.

And Reen's Rampage has some serious disadvantages compared to other power-ups. The cooldown is nearly twice as long as the cooldown of other power-ups, and if the initial attack doesn't connect the power-up won't even activate. This is especially bad with everyone using Toreado, Eye Boil, and Plasma Net.

< Message edited by Sir Night -- 6/4/2012 18:38:11 >
Post #: 7
6/4/2012 19:01:43   
blank452
Member

@plebster
Taser doesn't have a 90% haste debuff. The max it reaches is 50% like Grav Warp. Trust me, I've tested it. If it was 90% debuff, Pulsar would have a cooldown of 60 seconds.

For my say, Super Intellect was fine before the SuperDots came into being, but then again all eyes were on Ice Barrage at the time. As for Eye Boil, it's always seemed fine for my money. Decent DPS; good initial hit and a decent DoT. BtH debuff is good as it doesn't last as long as other effects and it isn't as harsh as Plasma Net's debuff.

@Night
Yes, Gore needs it's cooldown reduced to at least 30 seconds.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 8
6/4/2012 19:02:36   
Plasma Charge
Legendary AdventureGuide!


 Just a reminder you need to have a certain basis to nerf a power, in terms of powers such as
super intellect that means showing how it more efficient than other buffs on it's target powers
to an extent that other elemental builds can't match it's damage output.

So right now unless other figures would show otherwise I'd prefer to see Super Intellect left as is.

@Plebster
Taser was actually buffed ages back because of it having to short a duration, the thing is a player
has to use up a slot for a power which firstly does no damage and then secondly has a chance of
missing, I personally would feel that those make up for the strength of the nerf on the opponent.

@Sir Night
Physical powers are probably the worst affected by the Haste glitch because Super speed should
be exclusive to this set, if you considered it that way physical powers have the best Haste buff in
game to my knowledge.

That said Reen's may be a power to look into, deffinatly if you have more evidence as to how the
other element buffs surpass it. You definitely have a point about the cooldown being horribly long
though!

Thanks for all the input so far guys it's brilliant! =D
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 9
6/4/2012 20:23:07   
Antithesis
Member

quote:

So right now unless other figures would show otherwise I'd prefer to see Super Intellect left as is.


No other figures will support otherwise. Please leave it as is. ._.



As for Gore: Yes, reduce the cooldown. It is useless right now with that huge cooldown.

The same applies for Phase Shift... Seriously. 120 seconds for a power that reduces your own haste to like zero? :\ No thanks... It should be like 40 seconds. It's the most useless level 20 power in-game currently.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
6/4/2012 22:15:51   
Tally
Member

DoT/HoT bug fixing first, then focus on whatever else is still unbalanced.
DF MQ  Post #: 11
6/5/2012 3:36:56   
plebster
Member

@tally: fixing superdot will make most of other powers in the unbalanced though.

Gore is a really bad power with that cooldown. It should be 20 seconds. It's really annoying for all those people who spend all their tokens on it then have to sell it cus of the cooldown. I also got told that hail storm was also crap, so that could also get a buff.


< Message edited by plebster -- 6/5/2012 3:37:45 >
AQW  Post #: 12
6/5/2012 8:50:49   
blank452
Member

@plebster
Hail Storm is okaaay. If I remember correctly it can hit 150-200, and the "bleed" is 3 ticks of ~20, But I can't remember what the energy cost or cooldown is. I'd guess it would work as a nice nuke with Frozen Core + Ice Barrage.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 13
6/5/2012 10:16:57   
Sir Night
Member

quote:

Physical powers are probably the worst affected by the Haste glitch because Super speed should
be exclusive to this set, if you considered it that way physical powers have the best Haste buff in
game to my knowledge.


Hmm, is anyone working on fixing this bug?
Post #: 14
6/7/2012 3:00:28   
plebster
Member

Just to let you know, I think precision doesn't actually do anything, or at least anything noticeable. It is meant to increase critical hit, but it doesn't. I have used the lvl 20 version. it would be nice to see some stats from 100 hits without precision and 100 hits wih precision to confirm if It actually does do anything.

And just to clarify, the non AC versions of taser and also the element type boosts aren't meant to do anything what so ever, are they?

< Message edited by plebster -- 6/7/2012 3:03:47 >
AQW  Post #: 15
6/7/2012 3:36:35   
blank452
Member

@plebster
The non AC Tasers DO do something, they reduce haste by 50%, but it only works on players around the lvl of the skill. It stops lvl20s from getting a lvl 1 skill just for the effect, so to avoid shelling out for the lvl20 version.
I found out by testing the lvl 8 version, it worked on a lvl5 character, but not a lvl20 one, but I don't know the limits of lvl limitation. I'd guess it's ~5 lvls above for the effect to be seen, but I don't know if it goes up in increments or if it's just a single cap.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 16
6/7/2012 9:07:18   
Chuck the Awesome
Member
 

 I'm pretty sure that if you combine eyeboil with fiery core you will get something close to what the super dot is. I don't know if this is correct so please feel free to correct me. You could flame whip and a couple haste buffers and you could have an amazing build.
My point is that if you nerf one booster it is possible that people will go on to a new one and the cycle will repeat.
Chuck
Post #: 17
6/7/2012 10:34:14   
Sir Night
Member

@Plebster
It only works with physical attacks. You're probably trying to use it with non-physical attacks.

@Chuck the Awesome
Its a bug that applies to all powered-up DoTs. If the bug is fixed they will all be fixed.
Post #: 18
6/7/2012 16:33:00   
plebster
Member

@chuck by flame whip, you mean fire lash, right? my old 3 vs 3 build was : Firey core, fire lash, eye boil, pulsar beam, and warrior spirit. Pretty much the build you were thinking of. It's ok, but it isn't the Best build.
AQW  Post #: 19
6/7/2012 18:40:01   
kodix101
Member

Level 20s are kicking everybody's butt. Swamp Croc, a huge PVP champion keeps on appearing and killing me, too.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
6/7/2012 18:50:05   
Antithesis
Member

quote:

Swamp Croc, a huge PVP champion keeps on appearing and killing me, too.


I'm sure Sir Night is flattered.

Of course level 20s will generally win. They have access to the most powerful abilities. Nothin' wrong with that
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
6/7/2012 22:51:54   
Sir Night
Member

quote:

I'm sure Sir Night is flattered.


Indeed. Definitely felt good to read that.

But yeah, the problem isn't that lvl 20s are stronger. That's why you level up. The problem is that there should be an option to only face opponents who are close to your own level.

< Message edited by Sir Night -- 6/7/2012 22:56:56 >
Post #: 22
6/11/2012 16:33:30   
Antithesis
Member

The forum is playing tricks on my brain e-o I could've sworn that was the same thread as this one.
Anywho I'm going to repost most of what I said in the other thread.
~

Energy is still a viable power type. I regularly get Unstoppable when battling players who have the ability Surge, even when I'm using a largely energy based build.

For anyone who isn't aware: A foe's Surge is nullified if you decrease their haste significantly, and tends to get wrecked pretty hard by Chudling Rash in particular.
~

I will vouch that having semi-powerful, short cooldown powers is infinitely more effective in PvP than wasting time using powers like Abra Cadavra and Death Touch, unless you have a build that sustains you long enough to allow you to use said powers.
That being said, I use a build designed to take out multiple enemies quickly because I've been forced to adapt to being piled every time I join a Battle Royale match, lol. This is opposed to getting a guaranteed kill on one target and being completely defenseless against others, which may or may not be your preferred play-style.

Outside of PvP, big hitters are even more of a waste of time and effort, unless you're using it to tackle a boss that has somewhere around (or below) 4000 HP.
~

Just a quick, unrelated tip for you all:

Don't use builds designed to be awesome at Power Defense in Battle Royale. Just because you can't die doesn't mean you'll win. More often than not, you will lose every Battle Royale match that you attempt to use a tanking build in.
This is because you will not do enough damage to kill players or effectively gain points by dealing damage.

That's it for today.
Cheers, lads and lassies.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
6/11/2012 18:33:23   
herosmashyumi
Member

i may or may not get the name right but i think the power is disease, ive seen people do 400-900 noncrits
Post #: 24
6/12/2012 0:37:39   
Antithesis
Member

@Yumi: With which powers?

You got the name right. Disease weakens the target's defenses if I recall correctly (I'm Rank 10 Hero, though, so I can't be sure)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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