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NEW Team Suggestions & Spectation Suggestion

 
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6/21/2012 15:05:33   
Stabilis
Member

quote:

First Suggestion: New Turns System

The current 2 on 2 or 2 on 1 turns system performs so that each player's turn begins in a set order.

The current system of turns for a 2 on 1 situation:

Player A + Player B
VS
Player C

Player A's turn
Player B's turn
Player C's turn
Player A's turn
Player B's turn
Player C's turn
etc...

The new system for a 2 on 1 situation:

Player A's turn
Player C's turn
Player B's turn
Player C's turn
Player A's turn
Player C's turn
etc...

Why, what, and how?

2 on 1 situations whether it be in 2v2 or Jug should have equal opportunities to win for both sides. Is having 1 capped player vs 2 capped players with the current system balanced? Is having 1 capped player vs 2 encumbered players (29 and down) with the current system balanced? Battle tracking reference would be much appreciated to answer these 2 questions.

If not then this suggestion is the key to salvation. Here is the logic:


quote:

  • In 2 on 1 situations, the side with 1 player has a state that we call double turns

  • Double turns has the cooldown and warmup of normal turns (to prevent speed exploits) {a}

  • A side with normal turns (2 players) performs as often as a side with double turns (1 player) {b}


  • quote:

    {a}

    Player A + Player B
    VS
    Player C

    Player A's turn
    Player C's turn uses Double Strike
    Player B's turn
    Player C's turn Double Strike cooldown 1 turn remaining
    Player A's turn
    Player C's turn Double Strike cooldown 1 turn remaining
    Player B's turn
    Player C's turn uses Double Strike

    {b}

    Player A's turn
    Player C's turn
    Player B's turn
    Player C's turn
    Player A's turn
    Player C's turn

    Team AB total turns elapsed: 3

    Team CD total turns elapsed: 3




    quote:

    Second Suggestion: New Team Setting

    The current system of player handling uses a maximum of 2 players on each side because of lag and balance.

    The new setting for team battles:

    3v3, 4v4, 5v5, 10v10, 100v100, 1v3, etc...

    Why, what, and how?

    The servers can only handle 1000 logs of entities (players and NPCs in battle) at a time. Exceeding the server limit (1001+) may cause instability, or being within the server limit (1000-) with 3 players on each side may cause lag (due to graphics processing) or balance problems.

    This suggestion will allow entirely brand new battle modes or changes to existing modes to positively effect. Here is the logic:


    quote:

  • More than 3 players at a time can be assigned to a team (3v3, 4v4, 10v10, 100v100, 1v3, etc...) (player battles do not affect the server count, the players themselves do)

  • A team consists of active players who are on the battlefield and passive players who are in the reserve {a}

  • When an active player dies, they are replaced with a passive player if there are any passive players left, via swaps. Swapping may be predetermined or player inputted

  • Swapping an active player with a passive player only occurs at death


    • If replaced via swaps, active players must declare a swap with a passive player {b}


      • Swaps are only declared before death, if no swap is made before death, the active player is swapped with a passive player predeterminedly

      • Only active players may declare a swap

      • Passive players may only accept or decline a swap


    • If replaced via predetermination, active players are swapped with passive players automatically


      • Active players are swapped with passive players in chronological order such as, replaced by Player 6, then Player 7, then Player 8


    • quote:

      {a}

      Player A + Player B + Player C + Player D
      VS
      Player E + Player F + Player G + Player H

      What it looks like?

      {b}

      Player A + Player B + Player C + Player D
      VS
      Player E + Player F + Player G + Player H

      Part 1

      Part 2




      quote:

      Third Suggestion: New Spectation Mode

      Ever wondered what someone's battle looked like? Well, with spectation, you can see the battle yourself, or have other people watch you!

    • Watch a friend's (or nemesis's) battles

    • Catch cheaters

    • Host tournaments

    • Relax

    • Watch or perform tutorials

    • Entertain

    • The list does not end with spectation!!!

      Here is the logic:


    • quote:

    • Select from a list of currently battling players to enter spectation mode

    • Send the spectating player into a "spectating" state (like AFK but the player is present)

    • Change the player's screen into an overview of the selected player's battle

    • Battle chat is not available to text or see

    • PM windows are available

    • Players are able to turn off or on whether they want to be displayed on the list of players in battle

    • When battles end, change the overview back to the spectator's screen


    • COMMENTS/QUESTIONS below,

      thank you for reading.

      < Message edited by Depressed Void -- 6/21/2012 16:06:27 >
      AQ Epic  Post #: 1
      6/21/2012 16:58:07   
      ND Mallet
      Legendary AK!!!


      1. 2vs2 or Juggernaut doesn't need double turns. That gives a huge advantage towards the single player. Pretend I'm in Juggernaut and I'm using a Strength build. I kill the player going next so I then would get another turn using this system. Then I could hit immediately after and have a headstart against the other guy who could've been planning to shield against my strength build but couldn't because he just lost his turn due to my second turn. Yes you could code it so that doesn't happen but then you're just wasting space with redundant code doing stuff that doesn't need done if you just keep this system. Not to mention the code it would take to change how warmup/cooldown works in a specific situation. Also, the number of players does not really affect the amount of lag, nor do battles count as players. When NPCs start a battle it starts a process that uses up server memory. It doesn't count as another player on the server. It just uses up server memory which in turn caused lag and instability.

      2. 3vs3 battle mode was confirmed to not going to happen because it's just a big lagfest, takes too long, and isn't balanced in the least bit. I honestly can't see them implementing such a complicated tag team system that few people would ever use because it would just take way too long and not really be worth it. Like I stated above, battles don't count towards the amount of players on a server anyways.

      3. Would definitely be hard to implement and set up but it does seem like a fun feature. I don't think it will ever catch hackers and if you can't see the chat then you can't really do anything about bad language or rude behavior.

      AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
      6/21/2012 19:40:18   
      Stabilis
      Member

      Thank you for the feedback, I will now respond as the original poster (or suggester in this forum).

      quote:

      2vs2 or Juggernaut doesn't need double turns. That gives a huge advantage towards the single player. Pretend I'm in Juggernaut and I'm using a Strength build. I kill the player going next so I then would get another turn using this system. Then I could hit immediately after and have a headstart against the other guy who could've been planning to shield against my strength build but couldn't because he just lost his turn due to my second turn.


      Highlighted a good point in bold. I was not thinking Juggernaut because there is already a 2 on 1 condition, but more so for 2v2. Example:

      Player A + Player B
      VS
      Player C + Player D

      A----C
      -------
      B----D

      It is Player D's turn: Attacks Player B
      It is Player A's turn: Attacks and kills Player C
      It is Player D's turn: Attacks and kills Player B

      I agree that there should be a balanced number of turns, as this sudden shift can be detrimental to systematic balance. 2 instant attacks consecutively whereas normally the enemy team receives both turns

      Never mind that, in normal gameplay, if this situation occurs, the turns become:

      It is Player D's turn: Attacks Player B
      It is Player A's turn: Attacks and kills Player C
      It is Player B's turn: Attacks Player D

      All of a sudden team AB has a 2 turn advantage, so instead of working towards an agreement on this point ND I am unfortunately going to have to play this card and say that the, "kill! bonus turn" is as damaging if not more for the single player as is for the 2 player team when against a single player with double turns, so that argument would cancel out at the very least.

      quote:

      Not to mention the code it would take to change how warmup/cooldown works in a specific situation.


      What one could do is implement a temporary variable to multiply the cooldown by 2, simply. Until 1 player on either side dies, the variable/attribute would be dormant. After a switch has been met then the variable will become true (Boolean). It would only need to perform once for any skill used in a double turns situation, multiply the initial cooldown by 2. A slightly more complicated plan would be to assign a variable to switch between true and false on each of the lone player's turn. When it is true the cooldown will decrease on that turn, when it is false it will not. Totally doable though, no doubt.

      quote:

      Also, the number of players does not really affect the amount of lag, nor do battles count as players. When NPCs start a battle it starts a process that uses up server memory. It doesn't count as another player on the server. It just uses up server memory which in turn caused lag and instability.


      That is generally the right idea. I did not say that the number of players affected lag, no. I said that in the original 3v3 battles for example, the graphics processing and output to the screen caused a tower of lag. The 6 player's presence is not causing a server any problems technically, but the graphics all in one battle event does. That is why I had suggested reserves to "hide" or "store" other players away for lag-related reasons. The server counts both players and NPCs as entities, like you have stated, an NPC object takes up a process in the battle event. Unless one of us were directly informed by a developer, we may never know as to how the NPC is handled. I assume that an NPC in battle takes up a player resource/slot. Because, if not, then 2, 000 player object processes in a single EpicDuel server can occur at once. If the servers are capable of handling that many player objects without failure then I rest my case; but I assume that the maximum capacity for battles is 1, 000 player objects including NPCs, so if 500 players all participated in a 1v1 NPC battle at the same time, 1, 000 units would theoretically be in use in that 1 server and no more players would be able to log in even though the log in limit is above 500.

      quote:

      3vs3 battle mode was confirmed to not going to happen because it's just a big lagfest, takes too long, and isn't balanced in the least bit. I honestly can't see them implementing such a complicated tag team system that few people would ever use because it would just take way too long and not really be worth it.


      The ND Mallet Guy, I am not proposing a 3v3 as you "think" I am referring to. I am proposing a 3v3 or 30v30 battle that uses quite similar processes to that of 1v1 or 2v2 without graphical lag or any to little difference in server response and handling. Compare it to 1v1 for example, its just 2 players knocking each other out, no harm there.

      A new mode and based on your assumptions... it will not be "worth" it? What about Juggernaut? Is that not popular compared to it's birth? Well, like I said, battle tracker data should prove who's analytic information is wrong or right.

      And yes, I know that battles do not count as player slots, the players and potentially NPC events do.

      quote:

      Would definitely be hard to implement and set up but it does seem like a fun feature.


      Well at least I am glad that you like this suggestion.

      quote:

      I don't think it will ever catch hackers and if you can't see the chat then you can't really do anything about bad language or rude behavior.


      Hackers, perhaps not. In fact they may be able to disable spectation altogether so lest we remember that. I am not sure if being able to report a player through spectation is beneficial though. The point that cancels out my doubt is next: for chat, I mainly wish to disable it to spectators for privacy issues. If 1 player disables their spectation and the other does not, when they battle, I should at least give the disabling player the right to their privacy. This is a complicated bind though.
      AQ Epic  Post #: 3
      6/21/2012 20:04:08   
      ND Mallet
      Legendary AK!!!


      @void I know what your system does. My point still stands that it would take too long to be of any great use.
      AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 4
      6/21/2012 20:21:43   
      Stabilis
      Member

      Oh, great.



      *uses a Smiley, it must be a full moon*
      AQ Epic  Post #: 5
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