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RE: Gears games: requiring urgent balancing

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7/26/2012 23:47:33   
stealthwings
Helpful


 Not everyone knows this? I will attempt to advertise it so that everyone knows for the gears games. I should probably start now, shouldn't I?

Remember everyone, fight for RH, fight for Dragons.
DF MQ  Post #: 126
7/26/2012 23:47:44   
Selutu
Constructive
quote:

That's cute, I wonder how Stealth does it

*points at stealth's post* That's how.

@glai and stealth
I'm naturally curious about stuff and the door is pretty interesting.
Also so far, there's no weapon/mecha that can nerf Bonus and buff Boost with a single weapon, especially not -50 and +30 with a Passive +5.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 127
7/26/2012 23:50:58   
stealthwings
Helpful


 @Selutu
Wrong. NYWH can. Not -50 and +30, but -40 and +40.

On the other hand, nothing else in the game will split damage between HP and EP.
Edit: Linked to the pedia page.

< Message edited by stealthwings -- 7/26/2012 23:51:26 >
DF MQ  Post #: 128
7/26/2012 23:52:31   
Glais
Member

@Selutu:I agree, there was a running theory back when MQ was...popular, that all three House items tied into the Dragon Dimension of some sorts. Was pretty cool...
DF MQ  Post #: 129
7/26/2012 23:53:25   
Death snake1
Member

@stealthwings- what is behind the door could be just as cool as dragons, it could be an item we need to resurect the dragons, and we don't even know.

@glaisaurus- it's damage rates may be whacky, but for the effects, i think they would be worth it for my style.

Thanks again to the both of you.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 130
7/26/2012 23:54:50   
EinhanderX01
Member

First and foremost...

Please remember to keep House rivalries to a minimum. No trolling, no flaming, and no bashing. Level-headed discussion is fine. Roleplaying to the point of taking things and blowing them out of proportion is NOT. And remember, this is a Discussion Thread. Not an RP thread, and not a spam thread.

With that said...

quote:

Wolfblade just plain sucks without customization, and if it was customized, it would be a mess.

I respectfully disagree again. Building on the level 35/40 versions make for very good grinding builds. High HP, High Damage, and High Stun Chances (on the BD) make it a viable grinding machine when just using Non-Rare equipment. Even better when using Rares. But then at that Rare level, the value of the WB is in its BD special (same for the other two AHMs). There aren't many non-rare mechs with a stun-capable BD (at least until more SCMs are re-released in Non-Rare versions).

For those who can't get access to some of the coveted Rares or NG items, the L.35/40 AWB/ANWB is a reliable tanker/grinder for those who just want to end their battles quickly, without any fancy tactics. Granted, this isn't everyone's preferred fighting style, and that's reasonable and fair.

quote:

I would say its something like this for the rewards, but the games should not favor any individual house.

RH's rewards were the best, figuratively, of the 3 Houses in the last GG. Second up was MR, followed finally by WB.

As to the Games themselves not favoring any House, that's borderline impossible without unfairly tweaking variables and settings in favor of MR and RH. How many more handicaps and rule alterations will be placed on WB? Already, before the latest Games even begin, WolfBlade is being denied it's very philosophy of quick, simple, and clean fights with the supposed additions of turn requirements before a point is counted for/against. How exactly is that fair for the players who joined WB because because that's what they liked to do?

I wouldn't mind RH and MR teaming up against WB; a 2v1 House battle. I wouldn't mind giving RH and MR point advantages for doing missions that followed their philosophy; MR Stealing Mascots and RH performing some special mission that catered to their intelligent side while all WB earned is a straight point regardless of whatever Game/Mission they did. I DO mind that WB is being denied its own combat philosophy in the name of balance. And while I myself don't care much if a different House wins the GG this year, I do think it's unfair to invalidate WB's creed mentioned when first joining them.

And before people start accusing me of being WB-biased, it was really my alts in RH and MR that participated last year, if only to earn enough VBs for the rewards (I'd rather pay NGs instead of grinding VBs, but that's a different discussion entirely).

< Message edited by EinhanderX01 -- 7/26/2012 23:57:56 >
Post #: 131
7/26/2012 23:56:34   
Gamemastersam
Member

quote:

Every computer, even the most basic has the Print Screen button used for Screen-shots

then my computer is missing programs. its not there
DF MQ  Post #: 132
7/26/2012 23:59:36   
stealthwings
Helpful


 @Einhander
You don't even know the system yet and you have already begun to criticize it? All the staff have said are vague hints, I would wait for the system to actually be said before criticizing/praising it.

They said that numbers would not matter. If this was a standard war format, one could make the argument that it handicapped WB, but it could be completely different, and have a way of making numbers not matter which does not handicap anyone.
DF MQ  Post #: 133
7/27/2012 0:00:33   
Zanzibaarus
Member

@Gamemastersam
The Print Screen button is on the keyboard, depending on the design of your keyboard (hopefully it's standard), it should be in the section of keys to the right of the letter keys.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 134
7/27/2012 0:05:03   
Selutu
Constructive


 @Einhander
Just pointing out that AMR can end battle quite quickly as well.
Also I have to disagree with you highly on the rewards bit. It is pretty much always RH > WB > MR.
MR literally always gets the worst of the rewards. Just look at the Component Thief. It is decent I grant you, but it doesn't fit in with the MR theme. There is no point in nerfing the enemy's Boost if the enemy can't hit you in the first place. And the Disorientator just plainly sucked. Either -15 or -30 Bonus just averages out to -22.5, which is out-done by non-rares. Even the NSC Snubber out does it.
Then we have the Sickle. The Guaranteed Crit only deals a tiny bit more damage than the Multi Gunner, while both deals a 2x HP DoT, but the Multi Gunner can deal an irresistible 2-turn stun, which the Sickle cannot. The only main advantage the Sickle has over the Multi Gunner is that it is compatible with mechas outside the MR HMs.
DF MQ AQW  Post #: 135
7/27/2012 0:09:34   
Flaafy222
Member
 

 Now I thought about it, WB doesn't need to have a handicap. The MR and RH mecha can still kill pretty fast. If anything needs to be changed, it's the system. It need to balance the number of players in each house. Many new players choose WB because it's easy to use, and effective when you just start the game. While, players who have played MQ for a while prefer the MR and RH mechas. It'd be nice to change the system to a win rate, or average wins, instead of a win counter.
Second, I apologize I forgot the names and I'm too lazy to check, said that wars are not good for the GGs. Wars don't seem like a good way for the houses to compete, the HMs have specialties and accelerate in certain fields. The name is Gear Games, and should be a different competition.

I apologize if this sounds biased, or just sounds stupid.
---
"MR is a fun house to be in, though the damage rates are a bit random. If you enjoy the whackiness of unpredictability you will have fun with it!"
-I did research when I was deciding the house for my second character, this was the reason why I chose MR. :) My first character was RH because I loved messing around with EP.
"Eh, RH and MR are better for the higher levels"
-I think this is because of how good the RH and MR mechas are for customization. I'm currently waiting to switch to RH to finish my EP Drain build.
"It won't really prove anything, and Wolfblade just plain sucks without customization, and if it was customized, it would be a mess."
-A lot of people are suggesting customizing WB with the Repulsive Skull, DeluxeBlade, and Double Barrels to make it the maximum effectiveness. But, almost any mecha with those equipped with dominate, so it's not really special to WB.

Sorry if my formatting is weird... I apologize too much.
Post #: 136
7/27/2012 0:26:01   
EinhanderX01
Member

@stealthwings:
Not exactly criticizing. Just playing Devil's advocate from an in-game perspective as well as that of a "new" player, using what has been presented thus far (House fighting philosophies) as well as the other part of blues' statement.

quote:

No house should be able to win a fight faster (less turns needed) than the others


Which really is directed at WB, though MR, with good real-life luck, can just as easily win in 3-4 turns if they roll high hits with crits on top of that (their damage range is both higher than WB and lower than RH; it depends on Stat distribution and Real Life Luck to consistently deal high damage).

The only time WB and MR would have to take longer against RH is if RH auto-attacks with their BD+SC special first; each and every time they're encountered in GG Duel. Of course, to balance that, WB and MR would then have to be coded to start each turn with their SC Special first as well (WB's Head and MR's BD) if encountered in GG Duel. In that case, WB would actually be somewhat easier, since the base chassis used before scaling is the level 25 version, rather than the fixed level 35 version, meaning that the Accuracy Nerf will be to WB's disadvantage.
Post #: 137
7/27/2012 1:06:09   
Gamemastersam
Member

after a lengthy battle with my computer i finally was able to make a photo of WB winning in Xtreme difficulty. but photo bucket has decided to be a complete troll. so im just waiting... waiting... waiting... 37% jumped down to 31% 3 times before an error occured... ...im gonna go listen to some music.
DF MQ  Post #: 138
7/27/2012 1:35:29   
forumlogin
Member

@Ein
Though I can't speak well for a SC/NG standpoint, the WB's NSC rewards were better by MILES than the MR's.
For arms, WB got some immoslashers/stunners; for shoulders, they got -40 hit nerfs which, while not fitting the general theme of a WB, is at least good.
For arms, MR got a weapon with a chance of an extra shot that would basically deal 33% extra damage, with no other effects. Most weapons that have similar effects will have it in much greater magnitudes; 33% extra (and a rather low chance, too) is insanely weak. For shoulders, they got a wep with a chance for DoT. I trust I don't need to explain how that's terrible.

Not exactly sure what else they have, besides the heads--repeats of the AWB/AMR heads, so I don't feel the need to compare them.
DF MQ  Post #: 139
7/27/2012 2:43:48   
ergotth
AQW Lore-titician


 I think you should give up my thread, peoples are starting to hate you in many ways, and I'm beeing kind to tell you to just acept the fact: WB overkills our fun in a game where everybody should have equal chances of winning.

for me, a drastic solution would be REMOVE the meters and make this game without percentage, withou killings, just a game, maybe AE could reinvent the gear-games and makes the 3 houses playing against another school in another planet, like Westion and Lagos, would be fun, like Harry Potter's tri-wizard tournament (but with only 2 schools xD) and the war meter could work in a timeline, reach 100% in x time and Soluna Gear academy wins.

@Razen
Yea, I always liked Runehawk mostly cuz its about mages and the most stylish xD (you cna even get the NG scythe in the blades shop that it fits runehawk's outfit perfectly) and the mecha always dazzled me, expecially the upgraded version (funny how RH mechas are the biggest, I mean, the first one was the tallest, and th second one is the bulkiest, and you can count some more feets when it floats xD)

Merged double post. ~TG

< Message edited by The Game -- 7/27/2012 3:39:29 >
DF AQW  Post #: 140
7/27/2012 8:58:06   
Hoggs Bison
Member

Hopefully the GGs are today, I don't know when the newsletter will come...
MQ  Post #: 141
7/27/2012 12:56:24   
Zanzibaarus
Member

@Hoggs Bison
What are you looking for in the newsletter?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 142
7/27/2012 13:04:55   
Gamemastersam
Member

Even though i have low hopes for the GGs balance, i would enjoy seeing others win. After you win 3 times winning starts to get dry. the only reason i look forward to the GG this year is for those new house mecha.
DF MQ  Post #: 143
7/27/2012 13:32:08   
JJ55$
Member

Wolfblade has such large numbers because they win so much. Many people don't care about the warrior/mage/rogue thing, they go to the winning team. This explains why Mystraven has more members than runehawk (by a little)
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 144
7/27/2012 14:01:48   
forumlogin
Member

@JJ
How do you know MR has more players than RH? :P
The forums aren't an accurate judge of that, Selutu is one of the only pure Mystravens (as in contrast to me, who has a finger in every house) running around.

@Flaafy
Pretty sure we've tried the "balance out the wins" route before.

Anyways, whatever you may feel about Gamemastersan, I do think he has a point when he puts so much faith in WB.
WB has shown before that they can continue plowing through whatever obstacles are presented; likewise, RH and MR have shown before that they slow down after a certain period of time (usually after WB gets about a 2% lead). There is a decent chance that this GG, no matter what's implemented, will have the same results as the others.
DF MQ  Post #: 145
7/27/2012 14:02:38   
vulkan
Member

well they are always gonna win.

wolfblade- wins gears games, inspires new players to join and old ones to change.

AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 146
7/27/2012 14:37:07   
jream
Member

to be quite honest I'm excited to see this game balance. We as in WB have gotten huge numbers since the beginning and I think it gotten bigger because of the change of alliance. I think the hindrance with WB actually made us a tad bit angry and we doubled our efforts.
AQ DF MQ AQW  Post #: 147
7/27/2012 14:38:08   
Dan2000eve
Member

@vulkan

Yup, only because WB wins. WB is suppose to be a pure warrior but its weapons dont work together unlike the RH mecha and MR, Im hoping to change to RH or MR when the gear games roll around. Some just stick around with wolfblade to get the trophy (SC's for there ship) Other nsc just want to win for once :)

_____________________________

Visit: www.youtube.com/dan2000eve
AQ MQ AQW  Post #: 148
7/27/2012 14:39:51   
.R.M.
Member

Guess it's time to do some council stuff around this time. :o
AQW Epic  Post #: 149
7/27/2012 14:46:34   
Dan2000eve
Member

@jream

So its like having 1 player on RH and MR and 3 on WB. Instead of making WB get 100 wins lets make them get 300 and keep MR and RH try to get 100. I guess it is fair but remember most WB players just sit back and watch the war meter go up. If they dont make it to hard I guess but you know you can say WB has an advantage of 5 players then 10 like most people think.

Then MQ makes it so we have to fight alot more enemies but they dont relize the other members that just sit down and watch. Something tells me there will be a change in gear games, I still have a feeling WB will be alittle bit more challenged.

Still this is WAR. If WB has many members so be it. Wars usually last 1 week, I only remember once when a war went for 2 weeks but that was only so MQ can buy more time to create weapons for the war

< Message edited by Dan2000eve -- 7/27/2012 14:47:40 >
AQ MQ AQW  Post #: 150
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