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RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X

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8/14/2012 18:15:07   
Mother1
Member

The NDS Mallet guy. I can give you that, but then again that is only because the bio borg's ability is considered a buff, and the azreal borg ability is to do just that remove buffs. However, when they are making changes maybe they might make it so that the bio borg's ability isn't effected by the Azreal borgs.

However I am not making an excuse for the Azreal borg ability either, and really you think it is fair that the azreal borg get's nerfed while the assault bot remains the same? the Azreal borg and the Assault bot believe it or not are two side of the same coin if you think about it.

Plus don't forget when someone buffs themselves with a defense buff if azreal takes 80 percent of it away they still have some of that buff left which mean you will be still be doing less then normal damage not more. With the assault bot's ability it is same thing but in the opposite direction.

Also what about those people who use high dex or high tech tank builds? I fight a lot of those people and to add injury to insult they buff themselves even more with these things to power themselves up. With the azreal borg not only do I remove these tanks buffs, but In turn I weaken their attacks that rely on these abilities as well. Heck sometimes it is because of me using this bot that I am able to win sometimes. Nerfing this bot as you claim while might as you claim help out the people who need to protect themselves from stronger foes however it will also be helping the tanks who spam stats as well.

I am at level 35 right now, and I come across more tanks then I do weaker people, and when I play against weaker people who buff themselves I don't even bother to take their buffs unless they put so much into the buff that it will cause a problem to me. However with the tanks that buff themselves sorry but the buff has to go.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/14/2012 18:18:48 >
Epic  Post #: 276
8/14/2012 18:23:24   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @mother Believe it or not but there have been times I have used a debuff just so the other guy would spend his turn using his Assault Bot to fix it. I wouldn't use a shield though just to have the enemy use Azrael Borg on it because it would be a waste of my turn at that point. It's quite easy to get around a tank buffing themselves since all it does for them is get them a little more damage from skills in return for getting raged on much faster. Heck, there are times that I attack their higher defense just to get rage quicker and the proceed to rage on the lower defense type.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 277
8/14/2012 18:36:23   
Mother1
Member

While this true, have you seen some of the increased amounts people get through buffs and I don't mean just tech and dex. Don't forget about the strength spammers as well. I have seen some people max out their strength, and a lot of times they have +50 or more on top of 60+ strength.

The class I use most of the time doesn't have defensive shields or if I do use them they will be still be ineffective against those kinds of state spammers so this is why I use my azreal borg to make it much more manageable since unlike most people (unless I am using my merc build) I don't tank up, and when someone spams strength it is a real pain in the butt to deal with.

Epic  Post #: 278
8/14/2012 18:38:33   
shadesofblue
Member

@ND Mallet
Which brings us back to the point someone made a while ago (I think it was Depressed Void) how you basically lose a turn when shielding/buffing, but don't when you debuff (because debuffs come with a strike, while shields/buffs don't). I still think debuffs shouldn't come with a strike :P

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 8/14/2012 18:39:32 >
AQW  Post #: 279
8/14/2012 20:04:12   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Scarletreaper yes he did have a record that good in 1 v 1 my point is that mages are not weak at those levels or at any other levels and 2 v 2 is very unreliable at those levels because some people don't know what they are doing and attack the person u are not attacking also it is not as hard as it is to get a record that good at those levels because some people don't know what they are doing so u can get a great record at those levels

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 8/14/2012 20:09:15 >
Epic  Post #: 280
8/14/2012 20:37:07   
ScarletReaper
Member

^I have to disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion. The way I see it, they get good around level 15 and great around level 25+ Have you played low levels recently? Or was it a while ago?

_____________________________
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 281
8/14/2012 21:08:07   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Yeah I played him about a week ago maybe he did good because of his build. I had givin my skills to bludgeon, reroute, technician, plasma bolt, heal, defense matrix, malfunction and assimilation but I changed it now though

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 8/14/2012 21:13:48 >
Epic  Post #: 282
8/14/2012 21:14:50   
friend18
Member

At times, debuffs are a waste of energy. I only use it as an opening stall tactic to make them waste a turn, although this doesn't work as well for tech mages, or when I know that they don't have an assault bot/rusted assault bot. Otherwise, it's pointless to debuff (waste of energy). I'd rather save my energy for healing and EMPing. Energy is important (although it's basically useless when you've used up your heal and you're waiting for the cooldown.

I only use a buffing skill when I've been debuffed. I see no point in using technician/def matrix, unless I need to make some room (plus it works great with bolt etc. because by the time the malf wears off, you have a turn with the buff).

< Message edited by friend18 -- 8/14/2012 21:19:40 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 283
8/15/2012 0:02:45   
streetnaruto
Member

Loooooooong time no post. What do you think will happen to the all suckish Bio bot? Btw i think the pyro fly will stay the sane.

Shades of blue what kind of justification is that? Just cause i dont have extra money to waste on some pixels doesent mean i shouldent be able to beat a guy 4 lvls below me who had varium -.-

I've merged your posts as some posts in-between were recently deleted, making it look like you've double posted. Also omitted a reference to a deleted post. ~eVentus

< Message edited by Eventus -- 8/15/2012 2:11:43 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 284
8/15/2012 0:16:21   
shadesofblue
Member

@streetnaruto
Urm not much I can say to that :P Better build, maybe? xD And unless the player 4 levels below you was using full enchancements and full varium gear, you at least stand a chance. I managed to get a winning record in 1v1 and 2v2 when I was a non-varium, even beating some varium players my level.

EDIT:^Thank you. I shall have a good day now. xD Oh, and I made my build myself, if you were wondering.
EDIT2:Varium Items are subject to nerf as well. The Frost Destroyer was originally very strong but they caught it and nerfed it during testing. And the balance tracker does not track how the player wins, it only tracks which classes win against other classes and what levels these classes are strongest. And as I mentioned earlier, how is doing 70 on a turn 7 rage against a player with around 40 total Resistance not OP?

< Message edited by shadesofblue -- 8/15/2012 0:24:05 >
AQW  Post #: 285
8/15/2012 1:17:17   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Friend18 so u cannot make a build that can beat the new bot? Because I know that there is a build that can beat it. And I am not saying it should not be nerfed I am just saying var players can make a build that can beat it.

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 8/15/2012 1:18:54 >
Epic  Post #: 286
8/15/2012 1:38:12   
rayniedays56
Member

Balance issues and quick fixes.



Strength BM
Provide a high support requirement to Fireball
Raise EP cost of bludgeon 2-4 points
Rework or even get rid of DA for a less reliable way of getting 21-26+35+10 damage on a gun...


Cyber Hunter
GET RID OF PA!
Replace with Technician
Move EMP to tier 3
Move DA to tier 1
Raise Static Charge to 37%

Basically looks like this...

Heal-CheapShot-DefenseMatrix
Technician-StaticCharge-PlasmaGrenade
Multi-Malfunction-EMP
VenomStrike-Massacre-ShadowArts


Bounty Hunter
Not sure. Maybe replace CheapShot with a lesser, but unblockable, move?


TLM
Remove Field Commander
Replace with SmokeScreen



Merc
Rework Adrenaline
Rework Bunker Buster so lower levels cannot abuse it



TM
Raise Plasma Bot to 33 EP at max
Give SuperCharge Dex again...
Remove Dex off of Plasma Rain


AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 287
8/15/2012 1:43:31   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Agree with most of it except TLM. Also BMs plasma cannon would have to be reworked if bunker was to be reworked.
Epic  Post #: 288
8/15/2012 1:48:50   
Eventus
Member

Hiya folks,

As you've noticed, I've recently swept an entire discussion away for having consisted of explicit elements of flaming, flame baiting and at one point, even a threat. I'd just like to remind you all that the board ArchKnights and moderators are always available to help deal with anyone who you believe is partaking in the likes; there's absolutely no reason why you should take their flame bait and flame at or along with them, because if you do, you'll just end up in the same boat as the original troublemakers as well! I know it's hard to resist that compelling feeling to respond to some posts if they really inflame you, but trust me, it's definitely better PMing someone who can really deal with flamers rather than becoming one yourself. You can find a list of these capable people in this post (link). Please bear this in mind when you continue discussion in this thread, as I understand the topic of balance is always susceptible to heated talk. Thanks, carry on!



< Message edited by Eventus -- 8/15/2012 2:34:03 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 289
8/15/2012 3:02:41   
The Hidden Legend
Member

How much resistance does a var cyber hunter 5 focus have?
Epic  Post #: 290
8/15/2012 3:05:26   
Rayman
Banned


 ^
47 or 53 total res. Inclusing PA.
AQW Epic  Post #: 291
8/15/2012 3:11:11   
The Hidden Legend
Member

A 5 focus one!?!? How is it possible for them to be 5 focus then?
Epic  Post #: 292
8/15/2012 3:12:18   
streetnaruto
Member

Why do people keep saying remove Plasma armor? If they remove it they should also remove Tacmercs armor too how is it fair to us cyberhunters? We have good synergi but were not the only ones who tank. The removal of Pa would be wrong and if it were to be someday tac mercs (i think) mineral armor should be gone. BTW its not our fault that most masterpiece rares are energy. Hidden legend Its prolly ench Lvl 35 full variums cuz im a 5 focus lvl 31 with varium armor and weps and i dont have that kind of res

< Message edited by streetnaruto -- 8/15/2012 3:15:30 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 293
8/15/2012 3:14:57   
ReinXI
Member

anyone else think that whoever goes last in a match should get some kind of help? like half damage or something? I mean seriously being malfed than nailed with a energy attack and reduced to near death on turn one just seems unfair ... ( same goes for smoke and phys attacks as well but malf is more common atm )
Epic  Post #: 294
8/15/2012 3:31:47   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Streetnaruto cybers can tank very good. If u have fought a var cyber u will know what I am saying. With their emp attacks are useless the Marc's atom is blockable and with mineral armor they have even lower dex and isn't cyber supposed to be a cross between tech Mage and hunter? I don't know where merc armor comes in. Thx for info on their resist. But one question. U are sure that their resist is 31 to 38 + 5 + 11? Because they will have 95 health or something or they will not be 5 focus right? Because when I fought one he just had 22 to 27 + 5 + 11 -1 and over 100 stats from weps. Maybe it was 24 to 29.

< Message edited by The Hidden Legend -- 8/15/2012 3:32:14 >
Epic  Post #: 295
8/15/2012 5:22:35   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

first thing tac mercs should hav smoke back since they dont have any debuff skill while other class has them. im a cyber but i want to be fair between the classes tactical mercs.

second is that the infernal android is too over-powered, i have it and i win 8/10 battles with it with my 5 focus build but it has really decreased the battle time and the fun in using strategies to beat opponents. and now all u have to do is to wait for the rage. i changed back to my tank build and equipped my pyro-fly straight after 10 battles with the bot, because i think it is getting boring.

i have been thinking about it on how to make the bot's attacks balanced, the first attack is alright but the unblokable energy attack is just wrong, how about making it deal 120% damage and its blokable or else there will be no point in putting any dex or shadow arts or even have tank builds. and now the jugg battle is getting harder with it since two lvl 25
5 focus merc and mage both rage infernal bot me and they both did 40-50 damage to me, and i was a cyber with 32-34 main resistance, +5 res from delta knight,
and +11 from plasma armor. i think the balance team should take this into serious consideration. i know the war was hard and fun for people, the epicduel team did a very great job. but the final reward is just ridiculous.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 296
8/15/2012 5:43:06   
The Hidden Legend
Member

Above they gonna weaken it
Epic  Post #: 297
8/15/2012 5:43:47   
Ranloth
Banned


 And I'll keep saying it. Take out Reroute or MA and get your Smoke back. You have passive Armor and passve EP regen, you cannot have debuff. If you use CHs as argument of having all 3 (debuff, EP regen and passive Armor) then SC is blockable and isn't a passive + you have Frenzy for HP.
Devs will not make TLMs OP again because you want Smoke back. Why would they do such a stupid move?
AQ Epic  Post #: 298
8/15/2012 6:09:01   
The Hidden Legend
Member

How about they replace frenzy with smoke? Or poison grenade with smoke?
Epic  Post #: 299
8/15/2012 6:18:51   
Ranloth
Banned


 Nope. They cannot have a debuff under any circumstances. Take away Reroute and there you go, then you may have Smoke.
AQ Epic  Post #: 300
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