RE: =ED= Balance Discussion X


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8/16/2012 2:59:13

Mother1
Member

Rayman you still want Gamma's energy attack to be blockable now that they can make it deflectable? As stated before the energy attack was only made blockable was because they didn't have the ability to make the skill deflectable in the first place otherwise it would have been just that. Also changing something from blockable to deflectable wouldn't be a nerf but a buff. If the beam was unblockable and undeflectable then it would be a nerf.

Epic	Post #: 326

8/16/2012 3:14:31

sky222
Member

quote:

@ansh0 My point exactly. I tried using defense matrix at first. all it changed is that they waited till rage to use bunker buster. I would really like to see these people claiming to have a high win percentage in 1v1 from 1-10 as a techmage make a video of it. Start a new character, record it, and post the link. If I see a video like this, I will admit defeat and publicly announce that I was wrong and have no skill. Sound fair?

OK, but I don't have video software so I will post some screenies, and you'll just have to trust that I didn't NPC or boost
If you don't trust me (I understand) then maybe I will make a vid later, when I return from vacation and can use my own comp
The mage:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/4361/37737482.png
I will post an image of him at lv 10 by september 10 and if his 1v1 winrate is under 65% then I admit defeat

AQW

Epic

Post #: 327

8/16/2012 3:19:58

Rayman
Banned

^^
I Preffer It BlockAble.

quote:

If the beam was unblockable and undeflectable then it would be a nerf.

?

< Message edited by Rayman -- 8/16/2012 3:20:19 >

AQW

Epic

Post #: 328

8/16/2012 3:37:26

Mother1
Member

Sorry I meant went from deflectable to blockable it would be a nerf. Besides most people I spoke with were asking the same thing since it is an energy laser why is it blockable? Especially since it is the only energy skill (That isn't physical) that is blockable.

Epic	Post #: 329

8/16/2012 4:03:49

Master Volcon
Member

Gamma bot has always been blockable on all skills,
the new deflectable skills is interesting but i think not right for gamma
leave gamma the way it is, in the past.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 330

8/16/2012 9:31:17

Steel Slayer
Member

All this talk about bots being blockable/deflectable got me thinking about EMP's. The 3 things (that i can think of, anyway) that make it so much stronger, and more widely used, than the other energy drain skills are-

Unblockability. EMP is a guaranteed hit, Atom Smasher and Assimilation arent. Wouldnt make much sense for EMP to be blockable, but since we're talking about making bots deflectable, why not EMP as well? It'd still be a guaranteed hit, but at least a chance to lessen it would be nice.

Usability. EMP has NO weapon requirement, the other 2 do. Simple solution? Remove weapon requirements from Atom and Assimilation.

Accessability. As stated by many in this thread, EMP is FAR higher up the skill tree than the others. I dont see it as much of a problem for Atom Smasher, since most Mercs are using Adrenaline, and Tacticals almost ALL have frenzy, so they are already down that far in their trees. But its a bit more of a problem for mages, since not all of them use Malfunction. BUT, any mage worth the name has Reroute, so why not make THAT the prerequisite skill for Assimilation?

Epic	Post #: 331

8/16/2012 11:07:22

Mother1
Member

Steel Slayer if you add a weapon requirement to EMP you would have to add one to toxic gernade as well since it is the equal of EMP only difference is it works with health instead of energy. Also removing the weapon requirement for Atom Smasher and Assimilate wouldn't make sense. Remember atom smashing actually uses a hammer and the closest thing to that is the club and Assimilate is a magic skill so of course it will be used with a club so.

Also I actually said something about the EMP being ready to use right away for cyber hunters while the other classes who have energy drain moves are at the bottom of the skill tree. However instead of making it the other moves higher up the EMP for cyber hunter needs to be moved down. the skill tree. I already subjected moving it defense matrix up and placing EMP where defense matrix is. If this is done if they wanted an energy draining move they would have to pay for it with a skill point just like bounty hunters and it would be more fairly balanced since some people don't want to spend the skill point to use the move.

Epic	Post #: 332

8/16/2012 11:12:37

Ranloth
Banned

quote:

Steel Slayer if you add a weapon requirement to EMP you would have to add one to toxic gernade as well since it is the equal of EMP only difference is it works with health instead of energy.

No. EMP =/= Toxic. I don't see Toxic improving by any stat but by Level and EMP only improves by Tech, has higher drain and is also cheaper EP wise. No they are not the same and you would not have to add weapon requirement. But think logically - why would you require a weapon to throw completely unrelated Grenade? <.<

Epic

Post #: 333

8/16/2012 11:15:53

Mother1
Member

Trans I was talking about that just like you were mentioning with throwing it like a grenade. It is really sad that thank to the 'move balance' Merc and tech merc got nerfed.

Epic	Post #: 334

8/16/2012 11:54:03

Calogero
Member

BloodMage = No Energy Regain
TLM = No Nerf

so in my opinion

CH = No Energy steal

Remove EMP, I rather fight Plasma Armor CHs than EMP CHs

_____________________________

Having a Signature is too mainstream

AQW

Epic

Post #: 335

8/16/2012 12:18:22

Mother1
Member

Calogero not all cyber hunters use the EMP skill. I fight them a lot and only a few use this. It is the ones that actually power it up you have to worry about. Also what would you suggest replacing EMP with? Replacing it with the wrong move would make this class even more op.

Also what would be wrong with giving the blood mage a energy regain move? They are the only class without it, and why not replace the fireball move with it? If this was done then this would not only give them a new move to gain energy with, but take down strength mages a peg or two since Assimilate is blockable while the fireball is unblockable and overly abused?

I can agree with the no nerf on TLM since they just got nerfed when titan removed the bug to balance the moves as a result of this their toxic grenades and blood shield are less effective they don't need another nerf.

Epic	Post #: 336

8/16/2012 12:34:22

Steel Slayer
Member

quote:

Steel Slayer if you add a weapon requirement to EMP you would have to add one to toxic gernade as well since it is the equal of EMP only difference is it works with health instead of energy. Also removing the weapon requirement for Atom Smasher and Assimilate wouldn't make sense. Remember atom smashing actually uses a hammer and the closest thing to that is the club and Assimilate is a magic skill so of course it will be used with a club so.

Mother1, I never said anthing about adding a requirement to EMP, I suggested taking it off the other 2, to bring them more into balance with EMP(this IS the balance thread). Also, I'd LOVE to see you Assimilate me with a club.

quote:

Also I actually said something about the EMP being ready to use right away for cyber hunters while the other classes who have energy drain moves are at the bottom of the skill tree. However instead of making it the other moves higher up the EMP for cyber hunter needs to be moved down. the skill tree. I already subjected moving it defense matrix up and placing EMP where defense matrix is. If this is done if they wanted an energy draining move they would have to pay for it with a skill point just like bounty hunters and it would be more fairly balanced since some people don't want to spend the skill point to use the move.

I also never said anything about moving the other skills higher up their trees. Only suggested linking Assimilate to Reroute instead of Malfunction. That wouldnt require moving the trees at all. I can live with the idea of switching Matrix and EMP though, that could work.

quote:

Trans I was talking about that just like you were mentioning with throwing it like a grenade. It is really sad that thank to the 'move balance' Merc and tech merc got nerfed.

When did mercs get nerfed? They've been buffed twice in the last few months(Blood Commander, Adrenaline), they are one of the most versatile classes out there.

Epic	Post #: 337

8/16/2012 12:47:59

Luna_moonraider
Member

quote:

Calogero not all cyber hunters use the EMP skill. I fight them a lot and only a few use this. It is the ones that actually power it up you have to worry about. Also what would you suggest replacing EMP with? Replacing it with the wrong move would make this class even more op.

True. but emp is at Tier 1 of the Ch skill tree this means all ch will have emp no matter what. some ch do not use emp but the fact that it is available no matter what is very very disturbing. most of us have suggested moving emp to Tier 2 or maybe Tier 3 of the ch skill tree. there is no need for replacing emp when it can just be moved to a different Tier.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 338

8/16/2012 13:12:45

Mother1
Member

Steel Slayer made an honest mistake in wording with the Assimulate skill. I meant to add with a staff with that not a club.

Lastly when the titan 'Fixed the move bug Merc's hybrid armor went from 7 defense and 6 resistance to 6 defense and 5 resist. How is that not a nerf? Both sides of the armor lost 1 point of defense.

Luna_Moonraider I also said it should be moved down to the second tier while Defense Matrix be moved up. I said this in one of my more resent posts. It was someone else who suggested removed EMP all together from them but not mentioning a good move to replace it with hence the reason I asked what to replace it with?

Epic	Post #: 339

8/16/2012 13:51:13

Steel Slayer
Member

I know the club thing was a typo, Mother1, was just pullin your chain a little. You got me on the nerf thing i guess, although as i understood that, it was to correct level scaling problems that werent supposed to be there anyway(quote from the design notes here).

quote:

August 03, 2012

Patch Notes - 1.4.8

NEW CHANGES/FEATURES:
•Revamped the end of battle screen ◦Now shows the base rewards you get, plus the bonuses for boosting or from Power Hour
◦Shows a new "Did you know?" tip after each battle

•Set up automatic daily removal of any duplicate achievements on characters
•Improved graphics for the Olympic achievement

BUGS FIXED
•Level scaling on skills was applying earlier than intended (The effect of this fix is that some skills may lose a point or two at your level). This bug has been around for quite some time so if there are any major balance implications they will be addressed.
•Realigned Legion and Exile achievements graphically
•Mechachillid weapons incorrectly labeled and statted as Seasonal Rare, now Rare

Tags: Titan Patch Notes

This change affected all 3 passive armor skills, and both poison skills, so it also nerfed BH and CH. Not sure what else it affected.

Epic	Post #: 340

8/16/2012 14:17:11

Mother1
Member

Steel Slayer what are you talking about? CH and TLM armor has been 11 resistance and still is that since those two classes were nerfed. They weren't affected by the move balancer.

It was only Merc's hybrid armor, and Tech merc's poison and blood shields that were nerfed. The bounty and cyber hunter's posion moves remained the same 11 at max, and nothing else has changed from what I saw.

But on another note the update is starting so all those who were trying to get a war hero today you are screwed out of it lol.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 8/16/2012 14:18:25 >

Epic	Post #: 341

8/16/2012 14:53:25

Mr. Black OP
Member

^
My EMP takes away 1 less energy and my malfunction is 1 less tech than before than the nerf.

Epic	Post #: 342

8/16/2012 17:09:55

ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!

@mother Actually steel slayer is right, all the armor passives were brought down to +11 total def/res. You may think that CH and TLM had 11 before the bug fix but they had 12. And I'm pretty sure that Field Medic lost a point as well so that affected everyone too.

AQW

Epic

Post #: 343

8/16/2012 17:18:53

Mother1
Member

Actually NDmalletguy It was 11 sense they took away smoke from tech merc and weakened static from it's 44% to 29% I know this since I played as both classes after that nerfed happened and both had a max of 11 on that day so it didn't change with this fix. I even played as a cyber hunter before they fixed the numbers and the armor had 11 resist then not 12.

Epic	Post #: 344

8/17/2012 1:05:03

rayniedays56
Member

Ahh, the old CH skill tree :)

Field Medic-Cheap Shot-EMP Grenade
Technician-Static Charge-Def Matrix
Multi-Malf-Venom
Plasma Grenade-Mass-Shadow Arts

^
|
|
|
|
I miss that skill tree cause it gave a boost to ANY build. The only reason it was considered *UP* was because of the TLM horror those days. :/

I remember when I would use a Dex Abusive/Plasma Grenade build.

I had 31-37 defense and 28-34 resistance. With a level 8 Technician, I could easily make my resistance over 35-42. Talk about a powerful robot and eeeebil EMP.

Yet, people didn't even consider EMP on Cybers bad back then, when we COULD abuse it.

I miss it...

On the balance issues this week, who isn't glad for the buff on Pyro Fly :D I can now do over 20 damage on it's special move! :D

AQW

Epic

Post #: 345

8/17/2012 3:31:35

carabuno
Member

on balance discussion of classes merc is extremly up how can i make this call
At max level i have tried every build and cant even get one with a 50% win ratio
I've tried 3 str builds which lost quickly
Ive tried 3 focus 5 builds all lose very slowly
Ive tried 2 support builds all lose
Ive tried a tech abuse build wow that lost too
I've tried offensive and defensive 20-24 str 25-30 defense and resist that lost too

AQW

Epic

Post #: 346

8/17/2012 5:51:55

RageSoul
Member

I'd say...the bot ( Infernal Android ) seems normal for now ( + balancing the other bots ). Good job , Devs , for balancing it !

AQW

Epic

Post #: 347

8/17/2012 6:03:24

Ranloth
Banned

For some reason, I enjoy Assault Bot nerf. Even though I use it, it makes Malf/Smoke/Intimidate a bit more useful since the effect will still be there and a bit stronger before.

Epic

Post #: 348

8/17/2012 6:59:52

RageSoul
Member

I now have a new "Merc-Buff Idea" : Demolish

What it does : Increases Defense Ignore %s for every attack with Defense Ignore ( yes , Rage and / or Bunker Buster included ) .
Skill Progression :
Level 1 :5% More Defense Ignored
Level 10 : 15% More Defense Ignored
Level 2 - 9 = + 1% , Level 10 = + 2%
Stat Required : 24 Support ( Level 1 ) ( + 2 Supp for Next Levels )
--> Replaces Adrenaline

Why this? => Not everyone goes for Adrenaline since it only affects some builds , so what i want to is that ALL builds are affected , not just some .

AQW

Epic

Post #: 349

8/17/2012 8:17:30

King FrostLich
Member

No, mercs got enough buff already. Leave them alone, deal with the current OP builds we have.

Epic	Post #: 350

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