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RE: =ED= Patch Notes - 1.4.9b - August 24, 2012

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8/25/2012 1:48:49   

RUI Bunker wasn't nerfed because Merc class doesn't have bloodlust like BM. WHile the bunker blaster is powerful unless the user has blood commander on they won't gain HP and thanks the bug being removed with a pervious update they won't heal much if they do combine the two even if a crit hits unlike with BM.

However the Fireball wasn't nerfed enough. should be made to increase every 5 strength instead of 4 since BM are still owning people especially the 120+ strength spammers.
Epic  Post #: 101
8/25/2012 1:55:04   


^ how is investing energy into your CH build turning you into str BH? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Besides I have seen Str CH before the update and they were doing the same thing except with less energy because of Static.

Besides you still have Shadow arts like BH and just about every single move a BH have except for a few. Static has always been CH greatest strength and weakness as well. Take away static and the class falls apart. Now after months and months of healing and emp loops CH get the ball dropped and now CH are running around like chickens who have their heads cut off. Stop spending the energy on everything but energy and invest in that stat to make up for it. It is that simple. (unless the staff decided to undo this nerf which will mean EMP loops and heal loops all over again.

I don't have much time, so I'll give a quick response:
CH's are basically the same as BH. We have Malf. instead of Smoke, Static instead of Bloodlust, and Plasma Grenade instead of Stun Grenade. If you take out the Blood Lust from BH's, thier build falls apart too. So by, investing in energy and (mostly) ignoring Static, we become a very bad version of BH (We don't have as good blocking since we have malf, not smoke, and we don't get 40 extra health for Bloodlust every battle). We could try a different type of BH/Ch build, but BH's have already proved that STR is the best build option there is. So when we try to adapt, there's only one way out: Use a BH-like STR build. But CH is run on a different principle than BH, we focus more on controling the Energy stat instead of the Health stat, but without our energy regain, we have to try to be something we're not: a Bounty Hunter. I'd say more, but I'm out of time; hopefully you get kind of what I'm trying to say.
AQW  Post #: 102
8/25/2012 2:06:16   

@Rui, the balance tracker only collects data on the battle outcomes and tracking battle tactics would impact too much on server resourses!

Thanks for all the feedback on balance thou, keep it civil and we can all gain an insight on balance.

In my opinion and that's playing mostly as a mercenary, we tested as much as we could and the changes seem to have evened thing up a little bit in regard to class balance. Static is now on par with frenzy and is not a must have skill on CH now. Perhaps we'll see more CH using toxic and other build variations than the tank or str/malf/static/mass builds that were the norm when you clicked 1v1. That is aside from BM, which were in some cases unstopable unless luck played a part. The lower level BM could use plasma twice a battle like mercenaries can use bunker, the difference is that bloodlust regains health and the resistance ignore negated hybrid.

BM's and BH have a weakness now that mercenaries using adrenaline can beat them to rage, as a mercenary I can actually compete with CH, and BM now and the changes should be viewed across the whole class structure and not just be comparing BM to CH which was all most people discussed as they were the dominant classes in the game.

I know Rabblefroth will review the changes and keep an eye on the outcomes. Have fun and watch out for the mini slayer mercenary ;)

< Message edited by Goony -- 8/25/2012 2:08:10 >
Epic  Post #: 103
8/25/2012 2:09:08   

Alright, let me say this. I am your average level 34 nonvar CH. No enh (most average nonvar have a few). I keep up to date with ED. Let me just say that this SC nerf basically screwed me over. I already have 79 EP. And I usually use it all up even with Static pre nerf. I have barely enough stat points to make do with. Enh are rather costly and have no sellback. Forcing me to drop another 4 or so stat points is just bad. Worse yet, I dont even have a round estimate on how much EP I am going to get back. I used to get 13 or 14 EP back per strike. Now I dont know at all.

As a Var, you probably could spare those few stat points, but nonvars just cannot afford it. Also, one of the main reasons I switched to CH pre-pre static nerf (I was a CH when it was 60%.) was because it could reliably NPC. I beat George Lowe then, just barely. That was when I was level 31 or 32, and had worse items. Now, with PA nerfs and SC nerfs, I doubt I couod beat him now. Same with the other Cheevo NPCs. It really is going to be tough. Even killing enemies like Valery and Lawman for "guaranteed" wins just got tougher as well by a lot. Going STR as a nonvar against even Valery is risky-you just take too much damage

All in all, I really feel the nerf as a nonvar. Vars can afford the 8 more stat points into Energy, but nonvars are really gonna feel the heat.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 104
8/25/2012 2:13:21   
Mr. Black OP

I as well have a good amount of energy (73 energy) but I go through it incredibly quickly.

If you guys consider heal looping healing twice in a battle then I heal loop all the time, if you consider it 3 times a fight then I pretty much never heal loop and I rarely see it from others.
If you guys are against EMP looping then here's a suggestion... remove EMP, seriously it isn't rocket science.
The only thing it did was encourage strength builds in the CH community.

Why nerf plasma cannon? If anything we should buff other BM skills to lower the amount of class hoppers and encourage other builds other than strength in the BM community.


Static is now on par with frenzy and is not a must have skill on CH now.

How is 30% energy regain at max on par with a 30% health regain at level 1, sure it requires some energy but they have reroute while CH have no secondary form of healing. You may say malfunction but what about CH with physical primaries? Also TLM have field commander anyways.

Perhaps we'll see more CH using toxic and other build variations than the tank or str/malf/static/mass builds that were the norm when you clicked 1v1.

You would see more poison builds if our venom strike was actually on par with TLM's poison.

That is aside from BM, which were in some cases unstopable unless luck played a part. The lower level BM could use plasma twice a battle like mercenaries can use bunker, the difference is that bloodlust regains health and the resistance ignore negated hybrid.
Then why not just nerf BL and make it up to BH by buffing something else? You nerfed static so it's not a must have skill while BL is a must have skill.

BM's and BH have a weakness now that mercenaries using adrenaline can beat them to rage,

What about the other classes? They still get hit by rage faster, just fixing the rage mechanic would benefit everyone who doesn't use a strength build.

< Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 8/25/2012 2:28:39 >
Epic  Post #: 105
8/25/2012 2:23:57   


gooney blood mages get back health with blood lust and mercs get lower damage with their hybrid armour. Its just the same. We have lower defence but regain health they can lower incoming damage. Plus mercs can just do blood commander and have a better advantage over blood mages added to the fact that they can atom smash . Have you tried a max level atom smash. It does 48 to 50 with normal 60 strength something a regular focus player has. How do you think a focus blood mage stands a chance against a focus merc. Leave focus build how can blood mage stand against a merc with no energy what so ever.

If the tracker takes too much resources it would be nice to see rabble doing 2 no 2 with us for 30 to 40 fights a day. Then He can see how no one uses multi and how blood mages suck when they get emped.

Anyways there are 40000 topics on balance discussion and over 1 million suggestions and you guys end up with nerfs. Good job. Its pointless sharing our views if you guys cant come and fight along side us in battles. Taking the ideas of 20 whiners on the forums is a really bad idea.
Post #: 106
8/25/2012 2:25:27   

@Mr Black OP, strength plays an important role in all classes, but the thing is strength doesn't play a role in luck factors. Sure, the game is about getting as many wins as quickly as you can, so the ideal build would be spam strength if luck didn't play a part. If you think that strength plays too great a role then suggest changes in balance, it does get read. But, it is hard for moderators and developers to respond as the thread is about feedback from "players" regarding balance and we are cautious not to impact on the discussion by responding.
Edit: On par in terms of the way it works not the percentage of return, also you fail to include the fact that frenzy costs energy!

CH and BM were adjusted based on balance tracker outcomes and player feedback. Yes, we know it wasn't going to be to everyones liking, but it was action taken based on the players feedback!

@ Rui, I play as a mercenary, what do you think it was was like knowing that when you clicked 1v1 your probale opponent was going to be a BM or CH that you had little chance of beating due to balance. If you don't like what we did, that's fine, but don't make ambient claims about the moderators or testers not playing the game.

< Message edited by Goony -- 8/25/2012 2:39:57 >
Epic  Post #: 107
8/25/2012 2:59:38   

Why did static charge get nerfed?? And to be honest static charge just got worse,Against a player with (19-23+1 res) And my base energy recovered was 9 (My str was 15-18+34) this is pretty much useless when it comes to players who have tank builds.


AQW Epic  Post #: 108
8/25/2012 3:02:44   
Mr. Black OP

Actually I included it, it's the part of the sentence AFTER the comma.
But what I did fail to mention was the difference in cool downs, which in that case would make more sense to make frenzy have a 2 cool down since it is pretty agreeable TLM need a slight buff.
That's why I brought up reroute, so they have a superior energy regain and a health regain which CH lack.

< Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 8/25/2012 3:21:04 >
Epic  Post #: 109
8/25/2012 3:10:51   

I must say the balance changes are welcome. Even if I'm a ch, the static nerf just makes you look for new build and not rely on sc that much.

< Message edited by Darkwing -- 8/25/2012 3:11:23 >
Post #: 110
8/25/2012 4:11:37   
Made 4 Sunny Days

As someone who used to play as a cyber hunter, I'm certain that static was still a bit OP before this update. I was able to create a high str, high def and good res (high with plasma armor) I got back 19 energy with one hit from static charge. That kind of power is to much...your gaining enough energy to heal yourself and at the same time doing damage to the person your facing. So instead of the case for tm and tlm gaining energy when they take damage (and because of this there is only a certain amount of energy they can get back since its based on them getting hurt while with a cyber, they theoretically have an unlimited supply of energy and before this they could get close to 20 energy back every two turns) People will evolve soon and it wont be a big deal, and Im glad to see an end to the dominating cybers and (hopefully) blood mages and see more creative builds being used
AQW Epic  Post #: 111
8/25/2012 4:24:54   
Nub Apocalypse


2v2 Balance Tracker

Wow, that thing wasn't there all along?
Post #: 112
8/25/2012 5:09:11   


gooney i am positive i said the changes are good. I never said devs do not play. Do not manipulate my words. What I said was that you guys hardly play. It would be nice to see you folks every day atleast for a few matches. Balance tracker cant give you player experience. I hope this worded to your understanding. Used to be fun with wiseman around i atleast fought him like 50 times and a few with dorumon. But for the last 6 months i have just fought you once.

Player liking or disliking cant change the decision of titan and his code. We have no choice on that matter. Either we evolve or quit. If you thing playing against a bh or cyber hard when you have atom smash well then sadly you have no clue how it feels to play against one as a focus bm.

< Message edited by Rui. -- 8/25/2012 5:16:54 >
Post #: 113
8/25/2012 5:16:21   
King FrostLich

Let me recap what I said last post:

Blood Mage - Nerf, plasma cannon nerf was unnecessary.
Cyber Hunter - Nerf, good for varium not for non variums
Tactical Mercenary - Unnecessary Nerf, just because CH's plasma armor gets nerfed doesn't mean TLM's should also be nerfed.
Mercenary - Unnecessary buff, a few % won't help even if you don't hit hard.
Epic  Post #: 114
8/25/2012 5:22:38   
Thylek Shran


Blood Mage

Fireball : Gains extra damage every 4 Strength instead of 3
Plasma Cannon : Base damage reduced to 18-36 from 22-40

I think there are some errors:

- Fireball gained extra damage every 4 Strenght already until 52 Strenght
- Plasma Cannon base damage was 22-28 and not 22-40


v.35.3 (2016-01-23) ~ beam.to/shran
DF Epic  Post #: 115
8/25/2012 5:27:14   
Fay Beeee

Guys. Stop and think.

Unless you have walked a mile in Mod/Dev shoes, you have no idea what their job truly involves. You may like the THINK you do.!

Work in real life and in game all have priorities.

Remember that MOST of the guys have jobs and they are volunteers here. TRYING their very best to help us in game.
The Devs have work loads that a lot of us would not be able to equal - day in day out. The hours they do are HUGE.

They are all dedicated.

Try, if possible to suggest or bring forward, ideas that do not attack others. How ever you seem to sugar coat it. That is what I see happening a lot here. Sure I am no longer a Mod. AND before someone says it yet again, I am not mini modding. Just stating my opinion, as I see it as we all have the right to do.

Better to suggest thing in the Suggestion Thread or the Balance Thread (if you think you have a workable idea)

No offence meant, as I am NOT picking on one particular person here.

Have fun and stay safe all.
That also means DO NOT SHARE ANY INFO. Scammers lie all the time. They tell you what you want to hear.

< Message edited by Fay Beeee -- 8/25/2012 16:32:37 >


Epic  Post #: 116
8/25/2012 5:31:47   

I am basically paper weight after this update. Static used to be my only chance of winning in Jugger/against variums. Now that my EP regen is non existent, I can win 1/20 fights if I have luck on my side.

As a barely enhanced(11) non varium, I cannot get high enough EP without sacrificing my other stats which are, at best, minuscule. Some of you would say, "Invest in EP, don't cry".

I am pretty much sure they are full vars with MAX enhances(~40) who will not be affected if they have to move some points in another stat, but for non variums, this is a disaster.

How do you expect a non varium to even touch someone with 40+ def/res?

If by chance, the player gets to strike, he gets 3 EP(or less) back.

I am pretty sure almost every non varium CH has been doomed by this update.

Now I am forced to use a str build to win.

Thanks for taking all the fun out of CH.

Thank you devs for this.
Epic  Post #: 117
8/25/2012 5:56:35   

You aren't forced to Str build. Just dumb few stats to Energy and still use SC for small EP regen. Is it that hard to train Energy? Will it kill you? Skills aren't supposed to be a must to compete and looping is finally over, yet people moan because it's a nerf.. You WANTED a nerf for BMs and CHs and there you have it, and it's a problem? Unnecessary buff to Mercs? So you moan it's all nerf nerf nerf and you find buff unnecessary. Logic..?
And I fail to see how -1 Def kills TLMs even further. It was FIRST nerf to it because one before was faulty level scalling and it affected everyone really with skills but no, it only hurt TLMs... <_< I would've thought that BMs being weaker and CHs too, would be like buff to other classes since they can compete more.. >_>
AQ Epic  Post #: 118
8/25/2012 5:58:14   

ED team actually does read the balance thread (no sarcasm)O_O. My question of why apprentice staff was +15 while light blades had +13 and basic club had +12 was answered with a nerf to apprentice staff!
You have regained a little bit of my faith that I lost in gamma, now to see if they can regain the rest!
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 119
8/25/2012 6:15:34   

Blood Mages are still frickin' overpowered! xD


AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 120
8/25/2012 6:19:00   
Unknown Menace

Static being nerfed no problem. I'll just stop playing completely and only come back for missions and token buyable achievments. Problem solved.
To regain tokens just mass fight NPC's. That's my new CH tactic.
Epic  Post #: 121
8/25/2012 6:32:57   

Wow, My CH build is wrecked because of this. My build is precisely enough EP for Malf, SC, Cheap shot and massacre relying on the 16 EP regained from static. Luckily I'm changing class soon.
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 122
8/25/2012 6:37:44   

Why touch Cyberhunters... All they had to do was remove the EMP, you know, the skill that obviously is broken.....

Plasma Cannon: You nerf STR Build and then you nerf any other build a BM could use, doesn't make any sence... Edit= Also just heard that Bunker Buster remains the same, I hope this is just a joke...

I have yet to see the effects of FireBolt now, but they should have just tweaked STR itself instead

< Message edited by Calogero -- 8/25/2012 6:43:30 >


Having a Signature is too mainstream
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 123
8/25/2012 6:53:56   

I like the nerfs and buffs. Especially the buff on adrenaline. But I would rather have seen a nerf on EMP than Static..
Post #: 124
8/25/2012 8:23:00   

Now I want to see some more tech/energy spamming mercs, lol!
I guess I won't be switching to CH now and will stick to TLM.
Post #: 125
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