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9/19/2012 0:20:51   
Power Of The Chosen
Member

quote:

Blaze The Aion Ender: If they need to learn not to trust people online, how will they when there are no consequences to their innocence
They will just continue to go around, robbing games of valuable features, such as trading
Why not let ED be the game to teach them, if none other


Good thought...
AQ MQ  Post #: 26
9/19/2012 0:37:16   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


quote:

If they need to learn not to trust people online, how will they when there are no consequences to their innocence
They will just continue to go around, robbing games of valuable features, such as trading
Why not let ED be the game to teach them, if none other

Because there are bigger game companies that give no care at all about its players that have trading options in there. Why not have them learn there rather than in a game where the staff WOULD spend way too much time fixing a system that will always be broken and flawed?
quote:

1. Yes, a major reason.. but it can simply be avoided by not trading at all, and actually thinking before you trade. Cause really.. you should be able to see what items are being traded and you should be able to tell whats good and whats not.. (well, new players arent gonna know whats good most likely, but this can be fixed by making it so people under lvl 10 cant trade)

Level means nothing in knowledge. I've seen lvl 30's that still ask for varium from random players. I've seen players do all sorts of stupid things at any level range.
quote:

2. Eh unfortunately your pretty right about that lol but how about maybe putting an age limit for trading? (people under the age of 13 cant trade? xD)

Do you honestly expect this to actually work? Everyone lies about their age on the internet, especially young kids who want to play games that are older than what they should play.
quote:

3. Well.. i dont think the help team would be getting anymore work than they do now because AE doesnt have a system to track lost items still right?

They have to take the time to reply to each of those messages and decide whether they should repair the damages(which pretty much consists of varium purchases only since credits would be too much data to store)
quote:

4. This one was a bit interesting to think about at first, but after thinking it over i realized that all games have this..

No other AE game has trading. The games I've played with trading were so ridiculously easy for me when I traded my good gear from a main to an alt that I basically just quit there. It's disheartening to know that your hard work and determination can be so easily crushed by someone who gets bored and makes a new account after he's already gotten everything for his main. It's basically a New Game+ that gives you a ridiculous advantage that you only play it for awhile but leave because the carnage just gets repetitive.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
9/19/2012 0:51:53   
Power Of The Chosen
Member

quote:

Level means nothing in knowledge. I've seen lvl 30's that still ask for varium from random players. I've seen players do all sorts of stupid things at any level range.

Yeah.. some lvl 30s are like that, but having trading locked until lvl would help new players who have no idea on whats going and how the items work..

quote:

Do you honestly expect this to actually work? Everyone lies about their age on the internet, especially young kids who want to play games that are older than what they should play.

It could work to some extent because some kids wouldnt lie about their age on the internet... Because when i was 11 years old i actually begged my older sister to let me lie about my age on a game i wanted to play lol xD.

quote:

No other AE game has trading. The games I've played with trading were so ridiculously easy for me when I traded my good gear from a main to an alt that I basically just quit there. It's disheartening to know that your hard work and determination can be so easily crushed by someone who gets bored and makes a new account after he's already gotten everything for his main. It's basically a New Game+ that gives you a ridiculous advantage that you only play it for awhile but leave because the carnage just gets repetitive.

maybe they can make it so you cant trade items from the same IP address?




< Message edited by Power Of The Chosen -- 9/19/2012 0:55:16 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 28
9/19/2012 1:04:32   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Then why aren't they kids playing those other games
Because this is a starting game company for many kids
This will be the first game(s) that they play online, and if they learn nothing from here, they will learn it from somewhere else

We are getting into a slightly offtopic aruguement, so I digress

Bottom line: Add an age limit, because if they know to lie about their age, how stupid could you be?




< Message edited by Blaze The Aion Ender -- 9/19/2012 23:04:44 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 29
9/19/2012 7:41:51   
Stabilis
Member

What drives you guys to want trade? What could possibly cause you ask for it? Do you have a reason why? Like I said, you can buy EVERYTHING from NPCs.

Right now it seems that since you do not care that people get scammed or super rich, that you are the people probably planning to rip people off getting your credits/varium by scamming.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 9/19/2012 7:42:38 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 30
9/19/2012 9:49:50   
drekon
Retired ED Guest Artist


@The ND Mallet Guy...

quote:

4. Balance. How does this affect balance? Trade over your outdated gear from your main account into an alt and you just got a free weapon and now have an advantage over everyone else who doesn't have a main account with great gear to trade with.


It would not affect balance in any way that buying varium weapons does not. In fact, if you take the time to think about it, sharing your outdated items with your other characters has less of an impact on balance than buying the latest, most powerful gear.
Epic  Post #: 31
9/19/2012 11:41:03   
Mother1
Member

Drekon at the higher levels yes but not at the lower to mid lower levels. Remember the older outdated weapons from promos are much more powerful then the varium weapons at those levels. Especially the beta weapons which have no state requirements. If a tech mage at level 25 got his hands on beta weapons he or she would be able to abuse the caster build like it was nothing and this is just one example of how this would affect balance.
Epic  Post #: 32
9/19/2012 15:09:41   
Westwycke
Member

Allowing trading from main characters to alt characters would upset an important game balance. This is the balance between new players and experienced alts. New characters are limited in what gear they have because they almost universally will not buy any varium to start. They are trying the game out to see if they like it, so credits earned is their only choice for purchases. Experienced alternates have more options in that the player who starts an alt usually already knows if they like the game enough to purchase varium. But they usually won't spend varium at the lower levels anyway, because they know that the equipment they buy will eventually become outdated and replaced. So they generally stick to the credit only equipment too. This means that at the lower levels new players and alt chars are pretty close to equal in quality of gear.
But if you allow trading to take place, suddenly the alt chars will gain access to much stronger equipment by using their main character's hand-me-downs. Often new players are missing an item, or have a severely outdated item because that is all they can afford. Alt chars would have top level gear to use, and could probably even waste some credits on enhancements since they don't need to spend them on purchases.
Having this kind of imbalance against new players would discourage new players from staying, and that's the last thing the game needs.
MQ Epic  Post #: 33
9/19/2012 18:49:37   
Death Jr
Member

For a game like epicduel trading and getting scammed is not a big deal. Most trades anyways is gonna be main char to alt. Second if ur gonna trade rares ur gonna be real careful aren't u. Third there aren't that many things to trade, ur not gonna trade stuff u can get in game anytime unless ur willing to trade 100 k credits for a lvl 30 varium wep.
Post #: 34
9/19/2012 20:39:34   
drekon
Retired ED Guest Artist


@Mother1 and Westwycke...

I understand what you're both trying to say, but there's something neither of you have considered. No matter how you look at it, the bottom line is that the advantage an experienced player's alternative character would have now over an inexperienced player is no greater than the advantage he would've had back when his now outdated weapons were among the best in the game. In fact, one could argue that some of the new credit weapons are on par with, or even surpass, some outdated varium weapons. Although I wouldn't recommend enabling the sharing of items like Beta weapons, for the sole reason of the method by which they are initially obtained, even if they were shared it wouldn't make a difference because the same advantage that player would have with the Beta weapons is the same advantage the original character had back when it was a lower level with Beta weapons.

I still don't think EpicDuel will go through with any form of trading soon, but I think sharing items among one's own characters on a single account is a much safer method than an all out trade fest.

< Message edited by drekon -- 9/19/2012 20:41:19 >
Epic  Post #: 35
9/19/2012 22:58:34   
Power Of The Chosen
Member

quote:

What drives you guys to want trade? What could possibly cause you ask for it? Do you have a reason why? Like I said, you can buy EVERYTHING from NPCs.

Right now it seems that since you do not care that people get scammed or super rich, that you are the people probably planning to rip people off getting your credits/varium by scamming.


hese are some of the reasons why most of want trading.

1. Once trading settles in, the pricing of items will change around. People will be able to get better deals than what they sell it at the shop (or worse deals in some cases maybe), and people will be able to get some profit from selling their equipment to someone etc...

2. maybe players can trade varium weapons.

3. some people are really nice and would give people free stuff (free stuff would seriously help a high lvl character that has been hacked and lost everything) and or share things with friends.. (ehh maybe a skullcard?)

< Message edited by Power Of The Chosen -- 9/19/2012 23:08:39 >
AQ MQ  Post #: 36
9/19/2012 23:09:59   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

quote:

What drives you guys to want trade? What could possibly cause you ask for it? Do you have a reason why? Like I said, you can buy EVERYTHING from NPCs.

Right now it seems that since you do not care that people get scammed or super rich, that you are the people probably planning to rip people off getting your credits/varium by scamming.


I know I said I was done, but if you would like to argue something further with me, you can PM me it
This was an arrogant remark
You do not know my intentions
But just so you don't make some rude assumption about me again:
I would like trading to be implemented to give me the opportunity to purchase items that would be useful to me that would not for someone else.
For example, is this should NEVER happen, they want to sell their Eggzooka, I could buy it for full price or more of the original cost, or less, it would be up to them what they want out of it.
Why rob players who are smart of opportunities to get items because of players who have no idea why they shouldn't trust strangers on the internet with their passwords

I'm done
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 37
9/19/2012 23:43:18   
Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:

Do you honestly expect this to actually work? Everyone lies about their age on the internet, especially young kids who want to play games that are older than what they should play.

For every action there is a consequence. The consequence of saying your over a certain age is being treated as you are the age you lied about.
quote:

They have to take the time to reply to each of those messages and decide whether they should repair the damages(which pretty much consists of varium purchases only since credits would be too much data to store)

Make a new policy saying that messages about in game problems will not be responded to.
quote:

No other AE game has trading. The games I've played with trading were so ridiculously easy for me when I traded my good gear from a main to an alt that I basically just quit there. It's disheartening to know that your hard work and determination can be so easily crushed by someone who gets bored and makes a new account after he's already gotten everything for his main. It's basically a New Game+ that gives you a ridiculous advantage that you only play it for awhile but leave because the carnage just gets repetitive.

Make it so you can't trade stuff to your alternate characters, on the same IP address, and require both characters to be on during the trade. (this one is kind of obvious)
quote:

What drives you guys to want trade? What could possibly cause you ask for it? Do you have a reason why? Like I said, you can buy EVERYTHING from NPCs.

The re-sell varium price is next to nothing, there are no credit enhancement sell back, you can't buy all weapons at NPCs.
I only see positives for people smart enough to not get scammed.
Epic  Post #: 38
9/19/2012 23:53:20   
Mother1
Member

@ Mr Black OP But that is just it not everyone is smart enough not to get scammed. I mean do you know how many users have gotten hacked because people offered them free varium and they accepted only to have their items sold, and their accounts cleaned out?

The help staff has to deal with people who have been hacked as well as other problems in the game. It makes no sense to add a feature that will give the staff even more work and why? Because the masses want to trade and get Perma rare/Varium items for almost nothing?
Epic  Post #: 39
9/20/2012 0:08:10   
Mr. Black OP
Member

^
Here's the thing though. People are getting scammed now anyways, you can say trading would promote scamming, but I can just as easily say trading will promote people being more cautious towards protecting their accounts.

http://portal.battleon.com/help/p-accounts-lostequip.asp
quote:

Nothing in this Agreement places a duty on Company to ever reimburse any player by providing experience credit for any experience lost for any reason. Company will never reimburse or be obligated to reimburse players for any experience loss in a monetary manner, such as but not limited to monetary reimbursement or monetary credit.

They are not obligated to reimburse players anyways so they can just have this as a reminder when someone is about to email the help team and then say if they are emailing about in game items that they will not receive a response.

< Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 9/20/2012 0:12:46 >
Epic  Post #: 40
9/20/2012 0:09:23   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


@OP Not really. "Hey you want Founder Armor?" "Boy would I?!" "Just give me your pass and login and I'll trade it over." "Ok. :DDDD"
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 41
9/20/2012 0:17:58   
Mr. Black OP
Member

quote:

@OP Not really. "Hey you want Founder Armor?" "Boy would I?!" "Just give me your pass and login and I'll trade it over." "Ok. :DDDD"

"Wait, why can't you just send it to me with the trading system?" "Uhm..." *logs out*.
Is it really that hard for players to think?

Also couldn't a scammer just say that he needs his log in to transfer an item right now anyways? Surely there are people who would believe that.

< Message edited by Mr. Black OP -- 9/20/2012 0:19:37 >
Epic  Post #: 42
9/20/2012 0:22:37   
Mother1
Member

@ Mr Black OP all the more reason not to add trading to the game. Since if you are scammed you will not get your stuff back. You don't get your stuff back if you are hacked, because of this and the person was dumb enough to give their username and password, image how it would be if they were scammed because they wanted to trade with some.

Also with your latest post you are giving some people too much credit. Not everyone would think that Especially since the mass majority of users are kids, or young teens. Heck when I tell people how old I am many of them tell me I don't need to be playing this game since it is a kids game. Or I am old for playing this game.

< Message edited by Mother1 -- 9/20/2012 0:26:10 >
Epic  Post #: 43
9/21/2012 22:11:36   
EDLastGame
Member
 

Look, you guys... Idk how you can get scammed... you are completely dumb f you do... you would BE TRADING!!! what dont you get bout that?
Lets say Drekon wanted my DK and i wanted * bunny borg... wed dscuss it hop on the trading server id put on DK hed offer bunny borg i would click yes and there would be a warning pop up: ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO TRADE ______ FOR _______ id click yes, hed click yes .. life goes on..
And even if it was between your own accounts you would still be the one that bought t and you would just be trading t down.... you would have to meet requrements...what dont you guys get?????? Do I need to make a freaking whole post about how the dang thng would work? Jeesh.....


[ MY KEYBOARD IS JACKED SO THERE IS MANY TYPOS I APOLOGISE ....]





Post #: 44
9/22/2012 17:52:16   
Westwycke
Member

Just because YOU don't know how people could be scammed, doesn't mean that it can't be done. Building a trading function would mean that the staff would become responsible for the security and safety of every deal done on the site. They have a lot on their hands already, without having to handle complaints about trading scams.

And there are more ways than just hacking to scam someone. Smooth talking someone into a trade that is not truly a fair trade is another way to do so. Remember, there are a lot of kids on this game. They often simply don't have the experience and maturity yet to handle trading properly. Trying to restrict them from trading at all, or preventing them from making bad trades, would be a nightmare. But so would cleaning up after complaints from the kids AND their parents. Unhappy customers are BAD for business.

If trading was limited to between accounts belonging to the same player it would be safer, but would still be bad for the game. New players would be at a definite disadvantage against secondary characters armed with the best "hand-me-down" gear. Discouraging new players is, again, BAD for business.
MQ Epic  Post #: 45
9/22/2012 22:44:14   
EDLastGame
Member
 

Stupidity is the main cause of scams.
Post #: 46
9/22/2012 23:46:24   
Death Jr
Member

If there is a trading system the players would learn common sense and mature faster. After I got scammed the first time I never fell for it again. Trading will be a good learning experience. Plus the scammed people have no reason to be mad since they disobeyed the terms and agreement.
Post #: 47
9/23/2012 0:14:06   
shadesofblue
Member

As I have stated before, an auction system is a much better alternative.
AQW  Post #: 48
9/23/2012 0:37:35   
Stabilis
Member

^

I prefer auctioning as well. Starting prices on auctions can start at 50% credit/varium price so that the seller can only gain money instead of lose.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 9/23/2012 0:38:11 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 49
9/23/2012 0:46:18   
drekon
Retired ED Guest Artist


A simple and safe way to trade publicly with other players is to do the following.

PUBLIC TRADING

1) Have a trading NPC, or multiple trading NPCs - each offering a different type of item, with a dynamic Inventory.

2) Players may go to said NPC(s) and confirm their request to trade an inventory item.
**NOTE: A limit of 1 item should be eligible for trade per day. Players may pay a modest varium fee(600?) to increase their daily limit to 5.

3) Players will decide the desired items they seek to trade their item for prior to confirming their request.
**NOTE: Desired items must meet a minimum total of 90% of the sellback price of the Item being traded, but cannot exceed 100% of the sellback price.

4) Once confirmed, the item will be added to the trading NPC's dynamic inventory with a 48 hour expiration time.
**NOTE: The item will still be visible in the player's inventory, but cannot be equipped until the trade request expiration time reaches zero without a successful trade.

5) In the dynamic inventory, each item that has been set up for trade will have the Limited Quantity status with an amount of 1.

6) Prospective traders will see the requirements(desired items) in red if they don't have it yet, and green if they do. They may then confirm their desire to make the trade, if they meet all the requirements.
**NOTE: Again, items will not be removed from the prospect's inventory until the trade is complete. It will simply be disabled from being equipped.

7) Once the prospect confirms his/her decision, the player who initiated the trade will receive a notification in their Trade Panel (new interface similar to Buddy List Panel) upon the next login.
**NOTE: There may be multiple requests from prospective traders in favor of the same item, so the player who initiated the trade will have the choice of selecting - from the Trade Panel - which prospect he/she wishes to do business with.

8) Once a prospect is selected and confirmed, the trade will be completed and all traded items will be removed from their respective inventories and added to the other. In addition, the item in the NPC's dynamic inventory will be removed immediately.


BONUS

1) Both parties who participated in a successful trade will receive +5 points toward their total score for Trader's Rank(new ranking system for identifying a trader's reputation). If a player cancels his trade request at any point prior to the completion of the trade, he/she will lose -5 points.

2) Upon reaching a certain Trade Rank, players will gain a dynamic achievement that improves as their Trade Rank increases.

**NOTE: If the trading system is built correctly and tested vigorously before release, staff members will not need to do much else as the system is self regulating with built in rules, conditions, and limits. For the select few players who are "smart" enough to get scammed and lose access to their account, once they notify the help team and proved ownership of the account, the team or a moderator on duty will set a temporary Trade ban on the account in question until the matter is resolved.

If a player accumulates too much negative points(-10) or more than 1 temporary Trade ban, that player will be permanently banned from trading publicly.





PRIVATE TRADING/SHARING

Players can trade items privately between different characters on the same account without a time delay. Since this form of trading is being done among characters that the player owns, one way trading is permitted. Meaning that one character can share an item with another character without requirements. However, privately traded items cannot be traded publicly. This is to avoid abuse of the trading systems.




If I've made any errors or if you see a flaw in what I stated above, feel free to point it out and give any constructive feedback you may have to make it better. These were just some rough ideas that I tried to get out of my head quickly.

@EDLastGame, try to focus more on revising your ideas, making them more realistic and appealing. Remember, many people want to see trading implemented. If the staff plans it carefully, they could deal with almost all security threats to the systems. The only real problem with trading are the gullible kids who fall for the dumbest scams. If it wasn't for them, there wouldn't be any logical reason for NOT implementing this.

Anyway, until the EpicDuel staff announces that there will NEVER be any form of trading EVER, then you shouldn't give up.

< Message edited by drekon -- 9/23/2012 2:02:54 >
Epic  Post #: 50
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