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RE: Bounty hunters are OP <*proof inside*>

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11/13/2012 14:33:19   
ReinXI
Member

death thats a funny comment @ BM myself the most nerfed class since its creation last time I checked thats the tactical mercenaries or someone else.. BM are by far the most "nerfed" class I can only think of 3 changes.. zerk to bludge plasma cannon nerf ( completely uneeded ) and the fireball scaling..
Epic  Post #: 76
11/13/2012 17:06:09   
robo90925
Member

@Death: I am a BM currently has well. Since i am focus 5 (Like most other BMs), since i am focus 5, i run very low energy. Now the energy is where the problem starts. If the BH is smart enough, they will EMP us. That means either, i cant intimidate, or i cant reflex boost. Now since my defence have been destroyed. I basically cant beat the BH......

@deoxy: Strength BM relies on luck too much. When i was strength BM, i was blocked way too much. Most strength BMs have a 2:1 ratio, though there are exceptions.
talking about BM is abit too off topic though....

< Message edited by robo90925 -- 11/14/2012 5:15:36 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 77
11/13/2012 23:12:44   
deoxy30
Member

Well, my build is 5 focus too and I get beat by blood mages because:

I start 1st. Defence matrix. He is a str abuser. He has an energy gun. He guns me. 19-19 even with 29-35+7+1 tech. Which leaves me only around 60 hp in the first round. Then I malf. Then he strikes. 29 dmg. Which leaves me with around 25 hp and leaves him around 100 or so. Then I heal. And if I heal I won't get the chance to beat him because he has blood lust, gun, bludgeon, and his primary.
Epic  Post #: 78
11/15/2012 14:24:53   
Vegafire
Member

Deoxy you will probably find that it is me beating you, I am a she and not a str abuser,

55 +56 str
45 + 23 Dex
45 + 13 Tech
46 + 21 support

I use Inimidate, Bludge, Strike or Aux, Rage with Gun? I hardly see abusing as its a simple way to overcome the fact that BH have Smoke Screen, Blood Lust, Shadow Arts and Masacre making them OP and Deadly. I simply worked out a way to bring them down a notch :)

Edit: And Yes as a whole we are more nerfed, every other class can take energy or regain energy meaning if they work their build right they can loop heal and Also tact mercs have learnt to be a focus build with robots, they can loop heal and do massive damage with robots. They have high defences and with full enhancements have good damage and can poison.

I was a Tactical Mercinary Before BM and i had no problem you just need to get a build that works for you.

Please do not double-post, it is considered spam and only clutters the page. Next time use the edit button to add in any additional information to your post. For more information, please read the =AE= Comprehensive Forum Rules > Posting Behavior. ~Mecha

< Message edited by Mecha Mario -- 11/15/2012 19:59:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 79
11/16/2012 5:16:09   
King FrostLich
Member

Let me repeat it once again and once again... It isn't Massacre that is powerful, it's the math formula of how % of increased damage is calculated when using a skill that has this effect. The calculation is [(Primary damage * % of dmg increased + Strength Damage) - (Enemy's defense)]. So if you've got +35 weapon damage with massacre that gives 100%(or more) extra damage, it's already 70 damage alone add the strength you've got(let's say 21-26) that's 90+ damage against anyone's defense or resistance(30+) which either way, deals 70+ damage. Since intimidate decreases strength damage and NOT primary damage, it BARELY even does anything to stop skills that give % of increased damage.
Epic  Post #: 80
11/16/2012 5:20:27   
PivotalDisorder
Member

I think the main problem is the % of increased damage on massacre.
Post #: 81
11/16/2012 12:45:41   
Mother1
Member

@ Pivotaldisorder

It isn't just massacre. Every single move that works with strength powers up like this.
Epic  Post #: 82
11/17/2012 14:12:52   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 ( lawman ) deathshadowslayer and ( escherion ) King frost lich.

Smoke + Cheap shot or strike + gun + mass + shadow art + poison + blood lust + multi?
Excuse me masters, isnt it too much? Oooo you guys must start planning really big nerfs to this class.
AQW Epic  Post #: 83
11/17/2012 18:43:29   
robo90925
Member

yep... intimidate does nothing....

The most powerfull BH is one with azeral's robot where it can decrease buffs................. Renders defence matrix and reflex boost useless........

< Message edited by robo90925 -- 11/17/2012 18:47:12 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 84
11/17/2012 20:17:20   
RageSoul
Member

@Warmaker
Er , you do realize that it takes lots and lots of EP to do that right? Multi and Poison has nothing to do with it , just Mass and the other STR skills.

< Message edited by Lord Aegis -- 11/17/2012 23:50:28 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 85
11/17/2012 20:26:41   
Stabilis
Member

I do not understand how the first post details much proof. Would someone mind explaining the "proof inside" to me?

Edit: Warmaker,

You listed MORE than 3 skills. 4 skills and up entails that not all of the mentioned skills are at max level, thus maximal potential.

< Message edited by Depressed Void -- 11/17/2012 20:28:29 >
AQ Epic  Post #: 86
11/17/2012 21:22:49   
robo90925
Member

@Void:

Well, I have around 3-5 detailed amount of evidence supporting BH is OP. There is also many other comments.
AQW Epic  Post #: 87
11/17/2012 21:32:43   
Wootz
Member

Ok, now I'm interested. I want to see some proof.
AQW Epic  Post #: 88
11/17/2012 22:07:51   
Mother1
Member

Ok Robo please post this 'evidence' because like wootz I am interested because last I checked BH while haven't one build that is OP doesn't make the whole class OP.
Epic  Post #: 89
11/18/2012 12:57:50   
Warmaker04
Member
 

 takes alot of EP But its easy.
140 hp and 92 energy Op build which is really easy to made.
and really easy to win. And it isnt hard to made. I saw this build from guy which had only 12 enchances and he killed everyone.
Its so easy to make this build.

just putting 140 hp or so 92 energy and high str. mass and smoke if enough EPs can do also cheap shot no need def/res and ur died in 5 seconds. See how easy is to make op bh build.
1 tactic, 2 tactic, 3 tactic.
Smoke+poison + Heal. Stungrenade+Multi+Heal. Bloodlust+High str + cheapshot + mass.
these work perfect so i dissargee
And void, they dont need to be max.
they can be lvl 5 massarce = 45 energy
Cheap shot 1 = 10 energy. smoke = 31 energy and energy shield which is 96 or 97 emp and thats easy to do.
so. Lord Aegis / Void i totally unagreeded with your point. You just said the opposite than normally, since these three tactics work perfect to bounty hunter.

And yes, there is anything to do multi/poison. Multi/poison tactic is owning at low levels, not in high.
since there are 100 BHs like that, then its not much Ep. Sorry. thats the proof guyz.

< Message edited by Warmaker04 -- 11/18/2012 13:02:01 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 90
11/18/2012 23:43:19   
Hard boy
Member

bounty hunters strength build is Op, they can basically counter everything,
i malf they shield, i assimilate it blocks, and if it doesnt they boost, i matrix they use the azrael borg, and then basically i lost.
what i suggest is making assimilate unblockable and available every 2 turns, make matrix available for 4 turns, and i think thats enough.
Epic  Post #: 91
11/19/2012 17:47:59   
robo90925
Member

Buffing TM, the most balanced class in the game? What?! That is a terrible suggestion. Buffing TM has no effect on the cause of the problem, BH. Why don't you just buff energy shield to make it fair, also buff techique and Defence reflex to 5 turns.

Bad idea.

< Message edited by robo90925 -- 11/19/2012 17:49:32 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 92
11/19/2012 23:07:33   
Hard boy
Member

either that or nerf bounty hunter's str build...
Epic  Post #: 93
11/19/2012 23:33:11   
legion of souls
Member

Haha i find it funny that there are Focus 5 BM;s out there that lose when energy is drained.

Let me make this very clear. to be a successful Focus 5 BM you rely on bot aux and gun. let them waste turns by draining energy.
AQW Epic  Post #: 94
11/20/2012 2:09:32   
kaiseryeux21
Member

i am a BH and prior to this post, i am using a 5 focus build which is doing well in jugg and 2vs2. after 1 month of using the build, i switched to str. BH to get faster wins coz i want to achieved emperror rank before the release of omega. my win ratio using str. build is not as decent compare to 5 focus build. but i need to sacrifice my win ratio in order to achieved my goal.

my point is, its just a matter of priority. if u want a higher win ratio u go for 5 focus bH, if you want faster wins but getting pawned by focus BM or Focus TM, its up to you. I want to speak in behalf of all the BH using str build. (if anyone don't agree, feel free to post). we know our strenghth and we know our limitations. Yes, we do get faster wins but we are also sacrificing our win ratio. Most Str. bh have very low defenses and resistance since we focus much on our strength which makes us easy to beat by focus BM, TM and even TLM.
for me, i dont mind getting alot of looses, coz i have a goal.
DF Epic  Post #: 95
11/20/2012 2:40:24   
robo90925
Member

Everyone seen daddi fudgE's dex spam semi strength build? Seen another person using it with a couple of tweaks with 20k wins and 900 loses.... That is much better than, well.... any build i ever seen!!!

The only time me (BM) lose from energy drain is because *cough* fighting *cough* OP BH!!

Most BH don't spam strength now. Seems most BH's grew a brain (or copied daddi fudgE) and are not spaming strength. They have learnt that massacre's damage equation is bases off the weapon damage. So, the cause of the problem is still massacre. Most strength builds get blocked half the time!!! Nerfing strength or not, we must first nerf massacre.


< Message edited by robo90925 -- 11/20/2012 2:47:52 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 96
11/20/2012 3:58:17   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

strength hunters or 5 focus hunters are not actually a problem, the real problem is strength BM and 5 focus BM, bloodlust, intimidate and deadly aim is just a OP combo. so you deal high damage with your gun and you gain health back while you make your opponent's attack low...thats sounds OP to me......anyone agree? they either nerf deadly aim or replace it with any non damage boosting passive. because now at lvl 6 deadly aim can give a 35 damage gun +10 damage, hows that fair?
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 97
11/20/2012 8:32:12   
Wootz
Member

quote:

Everyone seen daddi fudgE's dex spam semi strength build? Seen another person using it with a couple of tweaks with 20k wins and 900 loses.... That is much better than, well.... any build i ever seen!!!


That's P L U S K (he has some dots in the name aswell). I battled him, and the reason I lost was that my raged Auxiliary was deflected, but he had much less Technology then me, so, lucky bastard! If it didn't deflect I'd win with around 30-40 Health left. So, I can easily say that I can take him out easily. And Daddis build, didn't see it, but I battled Rayman who abused a crap ton of Dexterity yet I killed him.

quote:

The only time me (BM) lose from energy drain is because *cough* fighting *cough* OP BH!!

That's a lie.

quote:

Most BH don't spam strength now. Seems most BH's grew a brain (or copied daddi fudgE) and are not spaming strength. They have learnt that massacre's damage equation is bases off the weapon damage. So, the cause of the problem is still massacre. Most strength builds get blocked half the time!!! Nerfing strength or not, we must first nerf massacre.

I used a 16-20 +34 Primary and 31-38 Defense (a lot of Dexterity) as a Bounty Hunter, so I don't see Hunter growing a brain just now. And the damage equation isn't based off weapons damage. It's based on the damage done. If there's lets say:
A (you): 16-20+34, lets take 20, so 54 damage
B (opponent): 18-22+8, lets take 22, so 30 defense
You'd do 24 damage on him, now, Massacre adds damage of % based off that damage that you can deal through defenses, if it'd give 150% more damage, then Massacre would make a 60 damage attack.

I agree with Trizzz, 5 Focus BM has a huge win ratio, huge defenses and doesn't require much Energy for its skills.
AQW Epic  Post #: 98
11/20/2012 16:45:15   
robo90925
Member

Look, you obviously haven't been reading previous comments in this topic about massacre damage equation.

quote:

That is a lie.


So are you implying that a BM that is smoke with out reflex boost versing a BH with 5 massacre can beat the BH? Weather you like it or not, a BM that is smoked has a very low percentage of wnning a BH.

TrizZz, the only reason you are defending massacre is because you are a CH that uses massacre. Any class versing CH can do 15-20 damage to your energy.

Bm use little energy is because of the lack of skills that do decent damage. There is no point running super charge for BM because the plasma cannon got nerfed so not enough skills can benefit from high tech. Bludgeon, is like double strike so unless you nerf double strike, it would be unfair nerfing bludgeon. Intimidate can't be nerfed because it will further nerf merc. Without blood lust, BM is unplayable, Bm will be destroyed. Deadly aim is also too important, without it BM would have any reliable damage output because no skills do giant damage, and you cant nerf it because it would also cause TM big problems. BM is so delicate that any nerf with destroy the class making it unplayable. Also lets not forget fireball, a usless skill that no one uses.


< Message edited by robo90925 -- 11/20/2012 16:50:05 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 99
11/20/2012 20:23:39   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Robo, I have fought trizzz, I know he uses a 5 focus often, so he doesn't really use massacre, unless I am mistaken, ofcourse
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 100
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