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emp and atom smasher

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11/27/2012 7:10:24   
gangster a
Member

im starting to feel that atom smasher is too strong on level 1 as i have seen it take away 40 damage same with emp.

so i was thinking what if we fixed how much damage atom smasher and emp do with each level.

for example atom smasher at level 1 it would do 12 damage and it cannot go any higher then that unless you have a level 2 atom smasher.

please no flamming!
either support or not but i would like reasons!
Thank you!
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 1
11/27/2012 8:07:33   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Uhm, no...
It works with str, like emp works with tech

I see you're a BM, unless you switched, so I would suggest energy boosters

Good luck
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
11/27/2012 8:10:41   
gangster a
Member

^ that isnt my point im talking about how would it work if it was like field medic and hows energy boosters going to help they only give you 25 which is only enough for a heal and if they rage next turn your dead anyways strengh or tech isnt going to be nerfed anytime so this would be a good idea to have but thanks for your opinion

< Message edited by gangster a -- 11/27/2012 8:16:12 >
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 3
11/27/2012 8:18:08   
Drianx
Member

No way, not supported.
As for reasons, you should give reasons yourself first. 'Starting to feel that it's too strong' is no logical reason, it is only a feeling.
AQW Epic  Post #: 4
11/27/2012 8:19:18   
gangster a
Member

^
quote:

as i have seen it take away 40 damage
did you read all of it?
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
11/27/2012 8:23:23   
Drianx
Member

Some may feel 20 damage is too strong, others may feel 60 damage is too weak.
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
11/27/2012 8:24:28   
Ranloth
Banned


 I had similar suggestion (taken from here):
quote:

EMP with high Tech and even low Level can be quite deadly, or even an overkill, for any build - with Reroute or not & high EP or not. I suggest taking the Tech-improvement away and make it scaled by level + have fixed ranges. So you have to train it to drain more EP instead of now. Numbers would be lowered down as well to match those of Atom Smasher or a bit lower as it's unblockable unlike Atom.

Next up is Atom Smasher. At Lvl 1, it's already deadly due to improvement with Str (higher damage = higher EP drain) so I'd suggest making it based on weapon's damage only.Keeping %s the same but take away stat damage, so if weapon does 34 damage and Atom drains 60% then it equals to 21 Energy (20.4 rounded up). Currently with decent Str build + Lvl 1 Atom Smasher, it can drain a lot of EP. Yes it can be blocked but drain is variable at different ranges and can prove to be better than EMP.


Similar yet you're shoving a bit nerf onto it which kinda pushes it too far. If you have problem with them because they destroy your build then as said, get EP boosters. If you find them a waste then try to work around EMP and Atom so you can still get something out of your skills. I don't find them a problem since I found my way around both. And making Atom work off weapon's damage isn't bad since it'll improve as you get better weapons + no abuse can happen. Likewise with EMP. But giving it 12 EP at Lvl 1 and that's for all levels is.. ¬_¬
AQ Epic  Post #: 7
11/27/2012 8:29:45   
gangster a
Member

^ i didnt know it was already suggested and as i said the level 1 at 12 damage was an example it would be preferable for something like 20 and boosters really dont help if your oponents has boosters or reroute so its just wasting a turn and i would agree with this if i was a tac merc or bounty it doesnt make a difference
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
11/27/2012 8:30:18   
Drianx
Member

OK, I'm tired of teaching logic, so here you go:

EMP and Atom Smasher act like strategy breakers first of all. And they are reasonably effective (without being 'too strong' or something) when they are able to take away 25+ energy points, without the need of an extremely abusive build or too many points invested into the skill, otherwise it is stupid using more than 25 energy to take away less than 25 energy.

And the reason everything revolves around 25 energy, is because that is how big a booster is.
Why would someone need an energy-costing skill that can never take away more than you can replenish back, by using a booster?

If things would happen as you suggest, the skills would become absolutely useless, don't you think?

Stop defending your own current class and build and move on.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 11/27/2012 8:31:08 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
11/27/2012 8:34:25   
gangster a
Member

^ you have a point with the same amount of energy taken as you had left over they could change that so it doesnt happen. and as for my suggestion how else is it to be nerfed if not by damage ? im not defending a class i would support this if i was a bounty or tac merc
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
11/27/2012 17:43:56   
Bunshichi
Member

My str at 16-20 and 17-21 only takes 25 energy away at lvl 1. Taking away atom smash takes huge str.

< Message edited by Bunshichi -- 11/27/2012 17:52:38 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
11/27/2012 17:55:05   
Blaze The Aion Ender
Member

Bun has a point as well
They must have been an extremely strength abusing strength build
And with merc, they must have had low defenses, which should have been easy for a BM to take out, or anyone for that matter

I have 12-13+32 I take 21-22, which isn't very high
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 12
11/27/2012 18:41:02   
STRUT MY MUTT
Member

quote:

im starting to feel that atom smasher is too strong on level 1 as i have seen it take away 40 damage same with emp.


And how many times have you seen it take 40 damage on level 1? I'd say seldom to almost never. In my opinion it's not something out of control and therefore can't support this suggestion. Carry boosters, they come in handy.



Post #: 13
11/27/2012 22:35:40   
Mother1
Member

You would have to be seriously abusing strength to get a 40+ atom smasher on level 1 and you would need to really abuse tech to get a 40+ EMP on level 1. Even when I had high tech with my cyber hunter build I only got a 33 EMP and this was because of my gear. I don't see this as a problem either since it isn't like we are seeing level one Atom smashers and EMP's taking away 40+ energy.
Epic  Post #: 14
11/28/2012 0:06:12   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Not supported.

-40 energy on level 1? That's ridiculous. That's almost out of reach unless you totally tech-abuse to 35-42 resistance or so on level 1 EMP. It'd be even harder to reach on atom smasher level 1, as it's based off of strength damage, and strength takes forever to scale at extremely high levels. If you use an average focus build, both atom smasher and emp take about the same energy at level 1 (emp should take a few more energy points), but emp costs 4 more because it's unblockable. It's definitely not a problem on strength-abuse builds, as atom smasher doesn't give rage unless blocked, so it's not really worth using on a strength build unless you're tanking and using strength at the same time or you invested many points into atom smasher. Abusing tech on a CH is a huge problem, as your physical defense will become extremely low and your resistance extremely high. On a BH, that's a different story, but it'll still be extremely difficult as reflex boost isn't the best skill to increase defense. The only classes that will be particularly affected by this will be classes like Merc, BH, and BM. BH and merc both have their own ways of taking energy, so it's a fair game for them. BM already has its advantages of being one of the most versatile classes, as focus works extremely well in both 1v1 AND 2v2. I don't think I've ever won against a focus BM without luck/energy removal, so I'd say energy removal skills are pretty balanced as is. Plus, wasting an entire turn on level 1 atom smasher/emp sometimes isn't the best idea, as taking ~25-30 energy in 1 turn with a chance of being blocked is pretty lame when BMs have a deadly gun every 2 turns and life steal every time they attack, plus a bot which deals pretty heavy damage on focus. Also, don't you agree that well-formatted caster builds would be near unstoppable without energy removal? A lot of people think focus BM are way too overpowered because of their solid win ratio and versatility to match almost any build type, so luck/energy removal is really the only way to counter that build type. If someone tries to abuse energy removal with high skill points, it easily becomes a burden on them as well since atom smasher is blockable, and hunter classes need to devote skill points to their 2 passives to make effective builds most of the time.
Epic  Post #: 15
11/28/2012 13:18:39   
Yo son
Member

quote:

OK, I'm tired of teaching logic, so here you go:

EMP and Atom Smasher act like strategy breakers first of all. And they are reasonably effective (without being 'too strong' or something) when they are able to take away 25+ energy points, without the need of an extremely abusive build or too many points invested into the skill, otherwise it is stupid using more than 25 energy to take away less than 25 energy.

And the reason everything revolves around 25 energy, is because that is how big a booster is.
Why would someone need an energy-costing skill that can never take away more than you can replenish back, by using a booster?

If things would happen as you suggest, the skills would become absolutely useless, don't you think?

Stop defending your own current class and build and move on.


is funny how you use strategy, but the thing is Bh has now became one of the most un-strategic classes out there. Anyways I don't support the idea, but as of right now, BH don't deserve an energy removing skill as much as BMs don't.
Post #: 16
11/28/2012 13:26:47   
Mother1
Member

@ Yo son

Why do you say this? Just because of one build people use to get quick kills with this class? There are other builds for BH that don't involve the strength massacre one. What about those builds? They don't deserve energy drain just because of that one build that is for brainless quick kills? Sorry but that doesn't sound right in the least.
Epic  Post #: 17
11/28/2012 16:40:52   
legion of souls
Member

Lets summarize..... Every class can use startegy if you don't abuse a popular build.


_____________________________
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
11/28/2012 18:43:02   
Yo son
Member

thank you legion, in other words what he means is that everyone that playes this game is selfish and self centered on not losing. And that is one of the thing that causes problem in this game. @Mother1 note, I didn't say remove EM or atom smasher because quite frankly I don't care anymore, I noticed something that most of the players in this forum hasn't noticed, our biasness is the cause of 90 percent of the problem this game is facing right now. But Yes, in 110 battles I only met like 1 Bh that didn't use high strength, guess what, it was the best fight I ever had since beta; with that said I still stand with what I said, most Bhs are strength, and Legion couldn't have said it any better.
Post #: 19
11/28/2012 19:31:28   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 I agree with Yo son, people are waaay too caught up with winning that they make as heck the most boring builds in the world. I can get just as many wins as a BH focus as I can as BH strength, and BH focus is way more fun to fight for the opponent as well. I disagree with EMP/atom being a strategy-ruining skill. When losing a bulk of your energy, you're forced to think more strategically and play in a different style than what you're used to, and this is where the actual fun and thrill of PvP comes in, rather than lame repeated 4-5 hit KOs with strength builds.

I did notice that lots of strength BHs are adopting the idea of having a high level EMP instead of shadow arts, and this is a pretty good idea. HOWEVER, putting 1 stat point in energy can support 2 skill points in EMP, for another 4-6 damage subtraction, which is pretty severe. I'm thinking that maybe EMP should be changed so that it doesn't increase as much per level (+2 per level, decreasing to +1 at level 6 or 7) and heavily scale with tech. This'll prevent dex tank energy abusers with spammy high level EMP on CH, as well as low tech builds with a still-effective unblockable EMP.
Epic  Post #: 20
11/28/2012 19:49:44   
Mother1
Member

quote:

I agree with Yo son, people are waaay too caught up with winning that they make as heck the most boring builds in the world. I can get just as many wins as a BH focus as I can as BH strength, and BH focus is way more fun to fight for the opponent as well. I disagree with EMP/atom being a strategy-ruining skill. When losing a bulk of your energy, you're forced to think more strategically and play in a different style than what you're used to, and this is where the actual fun and thrill of PvP comes in, rather than lame repeated 4-5 hit KOs with strength builds.


I can agree with this. It is when you are forced from using your normal plan that makes the game the most fun. Kind of like every time I have to fight a caster TM or a Smart strength abusing BH who has EMP. Even if I lose I still have more fun then I do if I had to use the same plan every time without fail.

quote:

I did notice that lots of strength BHs are adopting the idea of having a high level EMP instead of shadow arts, and this is a pretty good idea. HOWEVER, putting 1 stat point in energy can support 2 skill points in EMP, for another 4-6 damage subtraction, which is pretty severe. I'm thinking that maybe EMP should be changed so that it doesn't increase as much per level (+2 per level, decreasing to +1 at level 6 or 7) and heavily scale with tech. This'll prevent dex tank energy abusers with spammy high level EMP on CH, as well as low tech builds with a still-effective unblockable EMP.


Yeah they use this to cover up their weak resistance since they know energy attackers and malf character can hurt them. So they EMP you to sap a chunk of your energy so of which you can't recover from even with reroute and boosters. Thought at the same time even with all of these I can still come on top of these BH sometimes and beating them after then think they got you is all the more sweeter when this does happen.
Epic  Post #: 21
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