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RE: Overused Builds

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12/3/2012 21:19:55   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @VornWrath: I totally agree with you. So many people are deceived by the idea of winning and showing off that they totally lose the concept that ED actually has flexibility with builds, and that games are meant for fun. They're tricking themselves with typical builds that everyone uses and saying that they're more pro... how? They just copied a build off of someone else! I definitely hope omega fixes this with its stat point flexibility... Great example is that some person in 2v2 just said that I have no life because I have double his wins overall (I'm ~15k wins?), and that I only log on for the wins, and not to actually have fun. What was controversial was that he's using a typical BM focus build, while I was using a unique 100+ support mercenary focus build.
Epic  Post #: 26
12/3/2012 22:50:45   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

im currently using a support malf and massacre build, and it is very fun to play with since you deal unexpected crits and going first etc but does not always win but thats the whole point of pvp to lose some and win some.
i just don't get some people who is so addicted to winning and use the same OP build, seriously if they want to always win they should play some other game which lets you have OP gears and kill every other players.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 12/3/2012 22:57:37 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 27
12/3/2012 23:11:22   
Mother1
Member

@ trizzz

I have always used the build I am currently using with my TM build since I was a non varium player before it was considered OP. Now Focus is considered OP and funny thing I never changed to it. Just like some people who used to use focus BM when all of those str bm used to dominate the game.

With all these nerfs the staff have done they are causing builds that weren't OP to become OP. I mean before the fireball nerf did we have a problem with focus BM? I don't think so. Before the infernal android did we have a problem with Focus tank TLM? nope.
Epic  Post #: 28
12/3/2012 23:15:29   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Mother1:
They wanted to implement new things such as infernal android for variety of robots, and with new content typically comes changes and rebalancing after trial and error, so I find no problem with that. Focus TLM still isn't overpowered UNLESS they use boosters. Fireball really doesn't have much to do with focus BM, plasma cannon does, and it was unreasonably nerfed. Seriously, it seems like bland, overused, boring builds are being promoted rather than creative builds because staff have to comply to pressure of those people who just have to use their typical builds rather than trying to create new, interesting ones.
Epic  Post #: 29
12/4/2012 0:29:51   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@mother1 i agree with it except the fireball nerf, before the fireball nerf strength bloodmages are everywhere and fireball is just as powerful now, back then it was basically fireball, gun and beserker with bloodmages and now they are still using the same OP combo and with their 5 focus and infernal android they can pierce through the toughest tanks and other 5 focus also can take away nearly half of your health with rage gun, i have tried it and made many creative builds with it and to me 5 focus and strength bloodmage is the most OP out of all 6 focus build classes.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 30
12/4/2012 6:46:30   
Pallosalama
Member

6 focus builds?

I think there should be instructions for newbies in game for how to create build. This way they would try their own builds and not just copy what they find to be effective. Also it would make 2v2 battles more interesting due to more people having working builds.

And to all boringness etc rants, we all know there isn't perfect game. Its made out of inviduals. And not all of them want to be epicly unique. So what I say is try to get more people make their own builds and make yourself own builds, experiment around. This way at least some people will try new builds out. Since you can't change whole community.
AQ Epic  Post #: 31
12/4/2012 9:55:11   
goldslayer1
Member

this topic?
if u dont want overused builds, remove the option to see people's builds.
or at the least, some of it.

this would stop people from copying builds from players with good builds.

the creatives ones were the ones who made the original builds (heal loop, str bh, support merc, str tlm :D)
im not saying the build wouldn't have been reproduced, but it wouldn't be so much a problem as it is now.
AQW Epic  Post #: 32
12/4/2012 10:42:48   
Mother1
Member

@ goldslayer

The staff is more concerned about people fighting blind and people who have trouble finding builds then build copying. I remember this was suggested a few times and everyone said 'I don't want to be fighting blind!' That was the main issue.

But the funny thing is if you play enough and use your brain you can figure out what a person's build is and type it is by the first attack. Lord knows I can tell a tank build from a strength build by the first strike on me or on them.
Epic  Post #: 33
12/4/2012 10:48:57   
goldslayer1
Member

@mother1
THANK YOU
in many cases, u can tell people's builds by their items, the first turn is just more of a confirmation.
u can even tell their roughly tell their amount of offense based on how much damage they did.

if ur defense is 30, and they do 26 damage, that means his offense is about 56. subtract the 35 damage from their weapon, and there u have rougly how much str they have. (which would be 93.) the only thing that off sets these things is range, which gets even bigger at higher stats.

everyone always said they would be fighting blind.
but in real life, in a street fight, do u know what the other person is capable of? of course not.
it all goes down to experience, which u wont get unless u play.

quote:

The staff is more concerned about people fighting blind and people who have trouble finding builds then build copying

and thats probably the issue, although people who have trouble making builds will simply copy the guys who are in leaderboards.

if builds weren't super copied (like heal loop in beta) there wouldn't be many balance issues today because the "over powered" builds made by creative minds wouldn't be copied so much.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/4/2012 10:51:22 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 34
12/4/2012 18:06:08   
veneeria
Member

Even if resort to hide your stats, nothing ensures they won't make a build alike yours. So, i dunno if that will really "make creative builds", most likely just make it difficult to copy like before, but will be copied anyway in a way.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 35
12/4/2012 18:10:48   
goldslayer1
Member

@venee
yeah people will most likely stumble upon the build, but it will be in a reduced number of people.
it wont be as many people as we have now.
u may have about 50 people at best using a very creative and powerful build. but u wont have like 500 anymore like we do now.

basically it will stop copying, but it wont stop people from making such builds themselves. and thats kind of the point of the game, to make ur own builds. not copy them.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/4/2012 18:12:03 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 36
12/4/2012 19:24:50   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @Goldslayer1: With the inability to see your opponents' builds, it'd be extremely difficult to predict what they're going to do. A person could be a support build and you'd have no idea, until it was too late and you were killed by their aux. That is totally opposite of what I wanted when I started this topic, which is more strategic play. If I can't see the person's build, how am I able to strategize?
Epic  Post #: 37
12/4/2012 19:31:41   
goldslayer1
Member

@exploding
u improvise in the moment.
u can roughly tell someones build from their items anyway. (str bh, str BM, etc)

doing this would make players make builds that are strategic, and make players use overall builds instead of 1 way builds.

but this is just an idea. at the least, they should stop allowing players to see builds out of battle.
AQW Epic  Post #: 38
12/4/2012 19:55:34   
Banir
Member

^When Omega releases you won't be able to tell anything from what weapons people are using. It really will be blind. The only way you could tell would be to look at the character page. That aspect of the game being gone would be terrible.
Let's say we're playing 2v2 without being able to see someone's build. If you have two opponents, each with their own defense and resistances, you would have to spend four turns figuring out which opponent has a weaker defense, and which of that person's two defenses is more vulnerable. And since that would take way too much time poking around at people in the dark, people would probably just opt into running a max smoke/malfunction build and picking someone to strike until they die.
That would totally lead to creative builds. /sarcasm
Epic  Post #: 39
12/4/2012 19:57:48   
goldslayer1
Member

@banir
then why dont u suggest a better way to stop builds being copied from good players?
AQW Epic  Post #: 40
12/4/2012 20:21:37   
Banir
Member

There isn't a way. It's impossible to block people from copying others. It's human nature to imitate those who succeed. Even if you can't see their stats, if you really want to do the same things as some player does, you can. You can already see how much damage they do to you. Do the math and figure out how much damage their weapons and strength would need to add up to do that. Watch other people play when they beat you. How much energy did it take for him to do that skill? Write it down and you've got your skill's level. And of course, you can already see how much health and energy someone has.

The best thing you could do for yourself is to accept that it's gonna happen. It's not like any build today is super creative anyway. You have the strength abusers, and focus infernal android, and maybe a tank here or there, but in general, most builds tend to end up relatively the same. And then if you make something outlandish, like a crazy surgical strike build, it won't get copied because it isn't as good as using massacre.
Epic  Post #: 41
12/4/2012 20:23:02   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @goldslayer: not at all. The weapons I use for my support builds can also easily be used for focus builds as well, totally deceiving the opponent.

Maybe targeting the "don't copy builds" is the wrong way at looking at it...
Epic  Post #: 42
12/4/2012 21:09:32   
goldslayer1
Member

quote:

There isn't a way. It's impossible to block people from copying others. It's human nature to imitate those who succeed. Even if you can't see their stats, if you really want to do the same things as some player does, you can. You can already see how much damage they do to you. Do the math and figure out how much damage their weapons and strength would need to add up to do that. Watch other people play when they beat you. How much energy did it take for him to do that skill? Write it down and you've got your skill's level. And of course, you can already see how much health and energy someone has.

except not everybody knows that.
right now i have "pro" players in all time factions, asking me for builds telling me they dont know how to make them.
and they wont know unless they smarten up. and right now players aren't smarten up, thats why theres copying.


some would "copy" builds, but like i said, it wouldn't be as much as we have now.

and about the creativity part, theres not much creativity because the devs put many limitations to builds via requirements.

and maybe someone might not use a surgical build, because mass might seem stronger, but these things boil down to balance.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/4/2012 21:10:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 43
12/4/2012 21:34:43   
Banir
Member

If those "pros" need builds, why are they asking you instead of copying one from some random person? If someone doesn't know how to make one and use a build either copied or given, chances are, they aren't too great at the game in the first place. And eventually, a copied build might get outdated or they'll get bored of using it. I find it's better to make your own builds and have fun with it than to copy/paste a decent one. The people copying the builds are truly the ones at a loss here.
Epic  Post #: 44
12/4/2012 21:42:06   
goldslayer1
Member

@exploding
well its a fact that everyone has different views on things, so its cool.
AQW Epic  Post #: 45
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