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RE: Free Retrains

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12/9/2012 18:17:53   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

free this and free that, you people are gonna ask for every other feature that bothers yourself because you lack the ability to use it, those who can manage their currency and knows what works or not are not complaining. i am very sure of this that you people are going to want more free things.

< Message edited by TRizZzCENTRINO -- 12/9/2012 18:19:28 >
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 51
12/9/2012 18:20:08   
goldslayer1
Member

@trizz
im not asking for free var like most people are in the forums. please dont compare me to them.
AQW Epic  Post #: 52
12/9/2012 18:20:35   
Renegade Reaper
Member

hmm, unlimited npcs, and therefore lots of credits...... yea, i want something that costs 500 credits to be free. (not me)
alrighty then...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 53
12/9/2012 18:22:29   
goldslayer1
Member

@renegade
NPCs wont award wins, therefor make it useless if u want to progress in the game.

this game runs on wins. NPCs dont offer that.
AQW Epic  Post #: 54
12/9/2012 18:26:27   
The Astral Fury
Member

Maybe not free, but 100-250 credits sounds fair?
DF AQW  Post #: 55
12/9/2012 18:59:07   
TRizZzCENTRINO
Member

@goldslayer no the game runs on credits, the wins just comes with the credit earning :P to me you sound like that everything in this game should benefit yourself first then the others, hip pocket nerve is a persuasive technique and it triggers people's thought of wanting free things, thats why they agree, but those thats logical and knows how this game works will not agree.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 56
12/9/2012 19:41:37   
goldslayer1
Member

@trizz
again throwing false accusations trizz.
i know how the game works, and its not logical that i should pay 500 credits, to switch 1 stat.

i know u think, wow 1 retrain, this guy is so cheap.

what about the people that switch 20 times on a regular basis? the ones who like to build explore?
its not my fault im not sheep who copies an OP build and never changes.

if ur not a person who likes to explore builds and u feel this is unfair, thats cool as ur entitled to ur opinion.
but dont come here and insult others by throwing accusations at them.

< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/9/2012 19:43:03 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 57
12/9/2012 19:53:59   
Mother1
Member

@ goldslayer

It does a trainer train you for free in normal cases? No they don't they charge you a fee even if you only use them for one day. The same thing applies here with the game. Even if they aren't real the characters in this game are trying to make a living and to give out a free survive isn't logical in the least. Plus as it was shown retrains scale with levels. At max it is 500 at lower levels it is cheaper. for example a level 11 can retrain themselves for 220 credits. So the lower your level the cheaper it is. Plus 500 credits at max isn't a lot.

Also did you read NC mallet's post they put the price there for a look before you leap thing. It is the same with class change as well. Remove that and every 5 seconds a player can change his build and it will spam up the server causing lag and other problems.
Epic  Post #: 58
12/9/2012 19:58:07   
goldslayer1
Member

@mother1
lol at this real life logic comparison.
if the "trainer" giving u the stat points and telling u where to put them and giving u advice? no
he's not really training u them.

tell me, who do u guys go pay to tell u how to do a jump or a push up?
AQW Epic  Post #: 59
12/9/2012 20:02:56   
One Winged Angel1357
Member
quote:

Wins=8
Reason 6=DC
loses=4
reason 1=lv 33 Varium STR TLM
reason 2=lv 33 varium str TLM(stun)
reason 3=lv 30 F2P merc(Block assim then crit for kill)
Reason 4=lv 33 Varium CH(Used Defence Martix instead of Techinicain)


This only totals up to mid 300's in credits when it comes to credits earned but at the time that is all I needed to another retrain and this was a botched skill placement which is worse than your theoretical 1 stat misplaced and I still came out with 7 wins and 4 loses(win number six was by luck it doesn't count in my book). This is why there is a cost on retrain so you can learn something from every build you make and you can take something away from both your wins and your loses to improve your build for the next retrain which improves your build far greater than if you just rush a bunch of retrains in a row to make a build that works perfectly in your head

quote:

tell me, who do u guys go pay to tell u how to do a jump or a push up?

I do chores for a retired marine who tells me how to run better and do a proper push-up chin-up and curl-up

< Message edited by One Winged Angel1357 -- 12/9/2012 20:04:19 >
AQ DF AQW Epic  Post #: 60
12/9/2012 23:21:12   
Vypie
Member

@goldslayer1

You pay so your character's brain forgets all he has learned about battle skills. Npcs charge you for a neuro-reset, which Leaves you able to learn different stuff again more easily.
When you learn things, you tend to specialize in some skills, but that makes you less efficient at others.

Imagine that your character's memory can only learn up to a limited amount. That memory can be filled with specific skills/qualities, or spread out knowledge. But you cant make yourself forget, if you wish to.
You must reprogram your brain into forgetting all you know so you can learn new, other things.

I think NPCs have a special gadget that applies a safe neuro-shock to your brain. But this technology doesn't come cheap, and costs a lot of energy. You pay for the usage.
Epic  Post #: 61
12/10/2012 0:12:09   
Teufel Hunden
Member

not supported. they shud be worth more creds in my opinion.
AQW Epic  Post #: 62
12/10/2012 0:12:40   
Crimson Eagle
Member

Not Supported.

I'll tell why? Here's why:

1. Every average player gets 34 free retrains!

2. The credits get higher as the level goes up, so don't say it's too much for a new player, their credit prices are lower than ours!

3. 500 credits is easy to earn, just farm 15 NPC's do a few PVP's and you have it easily!

Are we really getting this cheap? Why is everyone asking for free things!? Retrains are a good price at they are, no point changing them!
~Cleany
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 63
12/10/2012 1:41:09   
Eventus
Member

To be honest, I'm not too keen on supporting this idea myself. As far as I'm aware, every other AE game that has a retraining feature always instates a price for that retrain...

In AdventureQuest, you need to pay & defeat a trainer (or buy one) to train a stat, or suffer a humiliating defeat by Sir Pwnsalot to "untrain" stats.
In WarpForce, you need to defeat NPC Tronzer & pay him afterwards to train a stat, or fight his inverted form to untrain.
In DragonFable, you need to pay a fee to increase or reset your stats.
In MechQuest, you must defeat a randomly assigned trainer to train your stats by increments of 5 points per battle (for NSC).
In AQW, you need to buy enhancements to imbue your gear with every time you level.

The issue here in question, I think, is whether or not a trainer should be paid for their services. Well, even if it is you who re-assigns the stat points, it is still the NPC you have to consult before being able to do so. Since the NPCs are supposed to be entities that have "lives" too, I would think that they should be paid for their services. After all, where would we all be if they weren't around to help guide us into that training interface?

Additionally, as previously mentioned before, after Omega comes out, getting a hold of the necessary funds to perform a retrain should no longer pose as an issue in any way, since NPCs will have no limit in terms of how often you can challenge them, and as far as we've been told, they will always give credit rewards for every defeat.
AQW Epic  Post #: 64
12/10/2012 3:56:55   
Nexus...
Member

To anybody who thinks the cost of a retrain should NOT be dramatically reduced, or removed all together, no...just no.

There is a difference between TRAINING a stat/skill and REDISTRIBUTING a stat or skill. Having to pay for more stats or new ones is something we all do in this game anyway, but paying to put stats/skill points you already have in different places is just silly. This game is about strategy, and the current "retrain" system is denoting strategy, as people have to literally PAY to try new builds.

The cost needs to drop, or go away altogether, and I really can't think of a good reason you would oppose such an idea.


@Eventus

Are any of the other AE games PvP based? Nope. It seems people only like to make comparisons to the other AE games when it serves them, and otherwise Epicduel is an "entirely different game." Where is my 90% sellback in the first 24 hours? 25% Sellback? Naw, nobody talks about that.


Anyway, back to the topic. PvP games need free or sub-free ways to retrain, otherwise you are punishing people for trying new builds.


Prophet

< Message edited by Nexus... -- 12/10/2012 4:04:52 >
Epic  Post #: 65
12/10/2012 4:07:28   
zion
Member

@Nexus Like Eventus said, the new system allows for fast credit earning with no limits on npc battles. Apparently things like retrain weighs on the server, so they don't want people doing 100 retrains a minute...
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 66
12/10/2012 4:10:42   
goldslayer1
Member

@zion
retrain 100 times a minute?
video or it didn't happen.
AQW Epic  Post #: 67
12/10/2012 4:10:50   
Nexus...
Member

Ok pal, 2 things:

1. Open up Legion/Doom server and you don't have to worry about "weight on the server" which I don't even think exists anyway

2. Only batman can do 100 retrains per minute, and none of us are batman.


Prophet
Epic  Post #: 68
12/10/2012 5:58:26   
zion
Member

Come on... y so literal? Retrains weigh down the database/server, so they don't want it happening all the time...k?
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 69
12/10/2012 9:56:36   
SouL Prisoner
Member

I totally Support the idea :D

Suggested my self like hundred times...

Or they could just let us buy a retrain card for like 30k and "BOOM" free retrain forever ...

(Welcome Back Gold :D )
quote:




Are we really getting this cheap? Why is everyone asking for free things!? Retrains are a good price at they are, no point changing them!
~Cleany



if its free, it wont hurt either, then y say no ???

< Message edited by SOuL Prisnor -- 12/10/2012 10:01:58 >
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 70
12/10/2012 9:59:59   
theholyfighter
Member

^^(2 ups) How'd retrain weigh down server/database?! It isn't something like your inventory; it doesn't save your previous builds!
^(above one) Hmmm 20k should do it, just like Silver Skull Card.
AQW Epic  Post #: 71
12/10/2012 13:59:29   
Eventus
Member

Other AE games do have a PvPing feature, so they are similar to EpicDuel in at least that aspect, but that wasn't the point I was trying to make. My point was there is a retraining feature in the game that involves both a trainer and a price. Look at it that way and you won't find that many differences, in all honesty.

Nothing in life, even in a virtual life, is supposed to come free, so there are limitations in place to prevent anyone from potentially abusing a feature like the retraining system. Having unlimited free retrains could be easily abused because while it may possibly encourage others to be more creative with build-making, it also has an exceptionally high chance of reflecting what has happened in past trends (i.e. having others "copying" builds without hesitation), and even more so without that cost restriction in place. Furthermore, as I mentioned in my previous post: a free retraining system wouldn't make much sense if you look at the game in a realistic perspective, as no NPC with a "life" would ever consider doing you a free service.

Remember that EpicDuel is a game—it cannot always be compared to reality, because games have the choice to establish an entirely different reality. That means while you may never consider hiring a trainer to teach you how to do proper pushups (because there is an improper way of doing them), or how to safely lift dumbbells, like it or not, you are going to hire a trainer in EpicDuel to "learn" how to focus on certain stats or skills, because again, NPCs are people in the storyline, and people need something in return for their services.

Edit: After some thought I'm also going to padlock this topic up, because as I mentioned before, the issue of obtaining credits should no longer prove to be an issue once Omega is released, as you'll have access to an endless stream of credits by farming NPCs.

< Message edited by Eventus -- 12/10/2012 14:19:57 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 72
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