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Azrael Borg problem.

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12/13/2012 2:38:12   
Remorse
Member

Shields have been almost completely destroyed by this bot making STR builds much easier and effortless as well as quicker to use.


A major balance destroyer, and the reason is rage.

When the player casts a shield they forfeit a turn of gaining rage or dealing damage.

With the azreal borg the STR player can not only ruin the shield but also gain rage that turn and deal damage with the special effect.

What should be changed is the bot still have the same special effect but instead it lowers the amount of rage gained each attack on that shield OR costs a % of rage to cast OR Stops the next attack on the opponent to give rage. OR
After casting azreal borg on a shield STR based attacks gain 25% less rage for the duration of the shield.

Some sort of rage inhibitor because it is not fair that casting a shield be as worse on the player as a self inflicted stun basically.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/13/2012 2:58:34 >
Epic  Post #: 1
12/13/2012 2:41:06   
RageSoul
Member

It's not really the bot , it's actually Rage itself because then it was

OFFENSIVE = DEFENSIVE and vise versa

But now it's ,

OFFENSIVE > DEFENSIVE
AQW Epic  Post #: 2
12/13/2012 2:45:17   
Remorse
Member

^
Rage is the major factor yes,

But incorporating a solution as small as a little rage drain to use the bot is probably a way with little colatoral damage to start to fix these things.
Epic  Post #: 3
12/13/2012 2:47:37   
Mother1
Member

Remorse

Ok I think this would get better feed back in the balance session since this is an issue of just that balance.

Next As much as I would love to support this one I can't.

Just because one build is abusing something doesn't mean all builds that use this bot should suffer this same penalty because in all honestly it will hurt the people who aren't abusing it more then it will those who are. Strength builds will still gain raise faster then any other build, and by adding this affect all those who aren't strength builds will suffer just because one build is using it.

Epic  Post #: 4
12/13/2012 2:52:50   
Remorse
Member

^ Sorry havnt been on forums for a while didnt realise there was still a section for balance.


Its not really much of a suffering.

Its simply making the bot fair to those people with sheilds.

Also it could be made to punish STR builds more eg.

After casting azreal borg on a shield STR based attacks gain 25% less rage for the duration of the shield.

Or something similar this way it doesn't punish other builds no way near as much.
Epic  Post #: 5
12/13/2012 3:01:55   
Mother1
Member

Remorse

While this idea is a good one for strength builds use abuse it, it will also help those stat abusers as well. You know the ones who have high strength, dex, and tech only to buff themselves even more with field, commander, blood commander etc.

I know you know this but there are only 3 pure defense buffs in the game. 2 of them are both offensive and defensive, and 2 are pure offensive.

I use this bot a lot to protect myself against those tech spamming caster, dex spamming hunters, and strength spamming builds. Many times my rage after using this bot saves me from losing. your idea would hurt not only me but anyone else who uses this bot defensively to make attacks hurt less that rely on at stat since that rage gain with strength moves will be lost.
Epic  Post #: 6
12/13/2012 3:04:50   
RageSoul
Member

^Um , Azrael's special is made mostly offensive , and some offensive builds are capable of tanking high damages too , so i don't really see this as a bad thing .
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
12/13/2012 3:10:02   
Mother1
Member

@ lord aegis

Yes it is offensive however in the case that I mentioned when some uses a non pure defensive buff (blood commander, field commander, reflex boost, and technician) that are powering up a stat. Remember when I told about the caster who did 74 damage to me with the plasma bolt in rage? If I could have used my azreal's borg special on that person that attack would have done less damage.

Meaning an attack that did 74 to me with rage could have done maybe 64-65. That is how I meant defensively by weakening these offensive or offensive/defensive buffs they make attack powered by that stat even hurt less. That is how I use the azreal borg defensively.
Epic  Post #: 8
12/13/2012 3:12:01   
RageSoul
Member

@Mother
Ah , yes , i forgot about that one , but yeah you do make a point .
AQW Epic  Post #: 9
12/13/2012 3:14:08   
Remorse
Member

@ Mother1

I can see you problem that you like to use the bot as a defence also.

But this cost is STR abusers can abuse it.

IF they couldn't as easily abuse it then shield would work better and you could use that as a defense instead.

So to say the bot is saving you its sort of killing other strategies you could use to that would also save you and not hurt balance as much.


Epic  Post #: 10
12/13/2012 3:22:00   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

I remember Trans coming up with an idea to make this bot and the assault bot's specials work with focus as well as the damage. Most strength abusers have little to no focus (level 2 for most) and if the bots that had percent value buff abilities worked with focus (since bots are powered by focus) It would effective save more of the shields who are attacked by these strength abusers while leaving the rest of those who don't abuse it alone.
Epic  Post #: 11
12/13/2012 3:27:49   
Remorse
Member

Yeh that idea has been mentioned a lot I remember supporting it as well.

But since they haven't even acknowledged that idea I am assuming it wont happen and am trying to think of other ways to fix things but yeh that would be a better solution.

< Message edited by Remorse -- 12/13/2012 3:28:23 >
Epic  Post #: 12
12/13/2012 5:04:52   
goldslayer1
Member

@remorse
when i was a str BH, azrael borg was the best thing to combat focus BMs. even then, they were very hard and in most cases they would win.
AQW Epic  Post #: 13
12/13/2012 5:07:22   
RageSoul
Member

^I kinda wondered why the Devs gave BMs E. Shield yet nobody had problems with it .
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
12/13/2012 5:10:02   
goldslayer1
Member

@lord
devs aren't in charge of balance.
ashari (a player) is, along with the balance team.

cant blame the devs here...

but the thing that gives focus BMs a big plus, is deadly aim, combined with bloodlust, and robot, it makes for some massive heal back
add in some tanking capabilities (shields) and they become OP.

the focus BMs is similar to the delta TLM (early one) where all the skills it had simply just clicked together.


< Message edited by goldslayer1 -- 12/13/2012 5:11:55 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
12/13/2012 5:11:21   
RageSoul
Member

^Ah , my bad ! But anyways , i still kinda find it weird that why did they ( the balance team ( now i got it right ! ) ) replaced Technician with Energy Shield though .
AQW Epic  Post #: 16
12/13/2012 5:12:25   
Crimson Eagle
Member

@Goldslayer1

The devs aren't incharge, that doesn't mean we can't #BlamePractel12

But yeah, the devs can't do anything about it...
This is an issue for the Balance Team!
~Cleany

< Message edited by Mr. Clean XD -- 12/13/2012 5:32:34 >
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 17
12/13/2012 6:42:48   
gangster a
Member

actually i dont have problems with azrael bot as i used to but thats probably beacuse no one really uses it anymore
AQ MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 18
12/13/2012 7:36:08   
Ranloth
Banned


 So we should apply the same for debuffers. Assault Bot is major balance destroyer so how about 25% more rage gain? Both do the same thing (debuff) but different things. It's already at 65% as opposed to 80%, you want more? You sacrifice a turn to use it, deal no damage and you still have 35% of the original skill left at cost of them/you sacrificing a turn worth of damage.

No one really has problem with Bots anymore.. Only Infernal seems to cause issues here and there but otherwise Bots are fine. :s And again, you're penalising everyone for sake of one build abusing it. Deal with the build not individual item. Players can always switch items and abuse it so what you gonna do? Nerf more and more?
AQ Epic  Post #: 19
12/13/2012 7:55:05   
Scyze
Member

Seeing people use the "Azrael Borg" is rare. When people use the Speical against me, they only do 3 damage. I think that it is fair since you get a free turn...
I sold most of my Robots since they didn't do much good.

The only pain I see is using it with Blood Mages. Their Reflex Boost lasts 4 turns and converts 15% of the Damage done to Energy. It is just unfair. If you use the Robot, it wouldn't do much good.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 20
12/13/2012 8:16:49   
Mother1
Member

@ neos

I see what you are getting at. Unlike with blood commander where if you use this ability you nerfed the percent of health you gain back the amount of energy you gain with reflex boost remains the same.
Epic  Post #: 21
12/14/2012 2:30:23   
rayniedays56
Member

I will admit that at the time, I hated the Azrael Borg. It was introduced soon after Support had it's huge downfall, which allowed the stat to be substancially lower.

Now however, I can see that it has been balanced. As has the assault bot. I do agree that the rusted assault bot should have less of debuff (45%?) or to make the assault bot only var..


/rant


Crud Off topic there a bit.


Yeah, the Azrael Borg WAS a problem in the past. Now it is a non existant issue.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 22
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