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Slight support buff

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1/7/2013 13:53:24   
Drianx
Member

I think making auxiliaires undeflectable would give a slight but much needed boost to support.

It isn't even realistic, deflecting a self-propelled missile. Deflection as a concept implies that the projectile armor piercing, not exploding.
AQW Epic  Post #: 1
1/7/2013 14:20:39   
KEzAx
Member

hey man, if your having trouble with the deflects, boost up your technology, if your technology is lower than your enemy, you will likely get deflected especially when you get malfunction don't use any guns if your feeling unlucky.
Epic  Post #: 2
1/7/2013 15:21:28   
Drianx
Member

^
You must have posted in the wrong thread, pal.
AQW Epic  Post #: 3
1/7/2013 15:25:07   
Mother1
Member

@ drianx

Not supported. The staff already has the plan of putting field medic back with support sometime in omega. That right there will be a decent buff to Support after the heavy beating it took sometime ago. Besides doing this would also be nerfing Tech since Tech works with Deflections.
Epic  Post #: 4
1/7/2013 17:44:28   
Remorse
Member

I have no idea why they took deflection from support in the first place.


Silly move.


If support is not buffed with heal improving agian etc then I support this.
Epic  Post #: 5
1/7/2013 18:42:46   
VanitySixx
Member

I think Support should effect your heal like it use to, but should only improve by 1 by like, every 6-8 stats instead of 4 like how it use to be to prevent easy loop heals. These days, Support Builds aren't as popular among higher level people, and it's because it's very much underpowered (for most of us).

Some people pull it off i can tell u :P
AQW Epic  Post #: 6
1/7/2013 18:45:48   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

I get by...
AQW Epic  Post #: 7
1/7/2013 18:45:53   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 @remorse: Because technology was an obsolete stat that simply boosted resistance at a slightly higher rate than the previously (and much more favored back then) dexterity stat. People really only increased technology back then if they were low level or were a focus build/tank. Once deflection was moved to technology, people started using caster builds again, and we can all see that caster builds aren't exactly OP.

Where I think imbalances come in this game is when pretty much every single build type possible works way too well against other build types, but is a total fail against others. Part of the reason why BM focus is so popular and considered OP is because it's a build based off of countering opponents. They have intimidate to weaken attacks, a solid gun attack and staple move for physical damage (bludgeon), and 2 defensive buffs to compensate if they're debuffed. BM is looked at as OP because of this, since it can counter almost any build rather than doing superbly against some types and horribly against others.

Back on topic: I do think that support could scale a little faster at higher levels, but stay the same at lower levels. Either that or make crit chance exponential, because people are getting lucky crits to win fights unfairly way too often, and support builds often don't even go first or crit every 3 fights.
Epic  Post #: 8
1/7/2013 18:54:30   
Remorse
Member

^ I dont see how technology needed deflection to be good....

Think about it dexterity does blocks yes but dex does not improve a weapon.... technology does (robots)


Plus why take it from the weakest stat?


If the logic was to make technology better so the stat is better, then why crush another which was already worse to begin with?
Epic  Post #: 9
1/7/2013 19:10:21   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

I agree, tech did NOT need a boost because enough people abuse it for bots. It also increases better skills than support does, Plasmabolt, Supercharge, Smoke Screen, EMP, Bunker Buster, Surgical Strike, to name a few. Support has: Malf, Shields, Artillery Strike, Field Commander, Intimidate, etc. My point is that tech is currently far more useful than support because, while it doesn't have anything except resistance tied directly to the stat, it increases bot damage and the damage or effectiveness of many great skills while Support is left behind in all aspects except for crits and going first.
AQW Epic  Post #: 10
1/7/2013 19:23:20   
Mother1
Member

@ ed

Did you also forget that support

1 increases rage gain
2 reduces chance of getting stunned
3 power up your aux


along with that you mentioned?
Epic  Post #: 11
1/7/2013 20:20:17   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

Let's put it this way; it gets all that but is still underpowered, something is seriously wrong here.

1. I'm running a supp build, still don't get rage fast at all.
2. I hardly encounter people trying to stun me.
3. Aux can only be used for every 3 turns and will be disabled by the yetis in Omega.


< Message edited by ED Prince of Shadows -- 1/7/2013 22:24:49 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 12
1/7/2013 22:58:37   
Midnightsoul
Member

I agree to you guys. The stat system kinda was fine already. Support really was the only counter to str and now that's gone, this game is going wild.

Support should've either kept on improving field medic or deflection rate. Personally, I like the sound of both so they should both be put into place again.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 13
1/8/2013 0:40:08   
Drianx
Member

Scaling Field Medic back with support might not be enough. There have been multiple nerfs applied to support back then:

- field medic scaling with supp was removed
- Field medic cooldown has been increased to 4 from 3 turns
- Rage damage has been reduced from 65% def/res ignored to 45% def/res ignored
- deflections were moved to tech
- other class-specific nerfs have been applied - like mercenary multi does not ignore 20% defense anymore

All these changes have not nerfed, but ruined support.

Making auxiliaries undeflecteble would balance the weapons.
- Strike has shortest cooldown but is blockable - damage can be reduced to zero
- Gun has 2 turns cooldown but it is deflectable - damage is cut in half
- Zooka has 3 turns cooldown but it would be unblockable and undeflectable. Furthermore you can't realistically deflect a missile...

@mother1
Dex and tech have in fact become the best stats in game - even better than strength - and 5 focus and tank builds are better than ever. Apart from having high defenses, dex and tech also boost blocks and both gun and aux deflections, and the immense damage reduction obtained this way is not properly compensated by faster Rage.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 1/8/2013 0:41:23 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 14
1/8/2013 2:10:23   
Remorse
Member

^ I agree that aux's shouldn't be deflectable.


If you think about it in the old days they hardly got deflected because support spammers decreased deflection rate.


Now that technology increases deflect, support users get another spit in the face when their damage output is halved frequently.


Plus I like the fact it would be making it more realistic.



Even if feild medic improves with support again, I still think its fair if auxs aren't deflectable since the devs insisted tech improve deflection rate.
Epic  Post #: 15
1/8/2013 3:04:03   
Mother1
Member

@ remorse

While this idea is nice it is giving Tech a nerf if you think about it. If you make aux's damage undeflectable, you are taking away something tech weakens AKA nerfing a stat. While I am all for buffing support nerfing tech to do so isn't a good idea.
Epic  Post #: 16
1/8/2013 4:15:45   
Drianx
Member

^
Dex and tech are the most important stats now - more important than strength, and MUCH more important than support - so taking a bit off tech for improving support is actually a good thing.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 1/8/2013 4:16:11 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 17
1/8/2013 5:15:19   
arthropleura
Member

Thisor have thedeflection rate nerfed...
i mean really, whats the lowest def rate? 40%? -_-
i think support needs a buff but making aux undeflectable is just like a free, repeatable platinum ._.
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 18
1/8/2013 11:08:41   
Drianx
Member

quote:

making aux undeflectable is just like a free, repeatable platinum

Do not take things out of context. Following your (lack of) logic, Plasma Bolt is also like a free, repeatable platinum. Does that make it a bad thing?
AQW Epic  Post #: 19
1/8/2013 11:29:23   
Stabilis
Member

Totally random thought, but what if, Dexterity managed blocking AND deflecting WITHOUT Defense... Technology managed Resistance and Robot ACCURACY and Robot SPECIAL effectiveness and DEFENSE, WITHOUT deflecting... Focus or ENERGY managed Robot DAMAGE?

As you can see I am too lazy to bold those points. In the end the effects are more realistic without granting too much power to 1 stat. Technology becomes the defensive armour stat but is countered by rage (Support), Support and Strength (weapons) are countered by Dexterity, and Dexterity is countered by Technology (because Robot accuracy is unaffected by Dexterity, only Technology, which allows the Robot (Focus or Energy and Technology) to counter Dexterity).

And of course Support is the same stat but with Field Medic.
AQ Epic  Post #: 20
1/8/2013 12:00:04   
Mother1
Member

@ drianx

Plasma bolt requires energy unlike the aux. so that was a bad comparison
Epic  Post #: 21
1/8/2013 13:16:50   
Drianx
Member

@Mother1
Just think before positng. What means free? Plasma bolt requires extra energy points which come from stat points. An effective aux means higher support, which also comes from stat points.
So both have in common the fact that you need to put in some extra stat points to make either one effective.
So judging that an aux shot is free because it doesn't cost energy points is wrong. In this reasoning, chairmans fury is also free because it doesn't cost energy points either.
But when the guy said free, he meant that you don't spend varium for it.
AQW Epic  Post #: 22
1/8/2013 15:12:19   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @drian Free is used as an attack that can't be blocked and doesn't cost you any energy. If it meant not having to buy it with varium then why did he call Platinum's Pride(a promo armor that costs varium to get in-game) a free attack? Also, with points into support you can repeat Aux after it cools down unlike Plasma Bolt where you'll have to invest in skill and stat points as well as energy to use it repeatedly.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 23
1/8/2013 15:19:38   
Drianx
Member

^
He said 'like a free, repeatable platinum'.

In my perception that means the aux would become just like chairmans fury (unblockable and undeflectable), but, unlike platinum, free (platinum requires varium) and repeatable (chairmans fury is not repeatable). In this reasoning, Plasma Bolt is also free (it doesn't cost varium) and it is repeatable (you can use it multiple times in a fight).

Anyway we're really starting to miss the forest because of the trees here.

< Message edited by Drianx -- 1/8/2013 15:21:42 >
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
1/8/2013 15:28:50   
Stabilis
Member

Free just means no sustaining costs (like energy costs) to use and reuse.
AQ Epic  Post #: 25
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