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3/2/2013 1:31:05   
arthropleura
Member

Hunters vs TLM
Wep req?
H: yes TLM: no
Mana cost:
Same
Blockable:
H: yes TLM: no
Damage:
H: 70% TLM: 100%
Stat req:
H: yes TLM: no

... Derp?
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 1
3/2/2013 1:35:37   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 You forget that TLMs have no way to increase their grenade damage and that it's based only on weapon damage, not strength. Plus TLMs don't get health back like BHs do because of Bloodlust.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 2
3/2/2013 12:05:10   
FishNoobCrack
Member

I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
Smoke + Poison + Bloodlust.
Post #: 3
3/2/2013 12:10:31   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 You cant take the other skills with it you know.
Every skill is separated.

BHs can also have no smoke or BL and then fishnoob, what then, is it then still good?
Same counts for ND mallet guy, you CANT take other skills with it too compare it!
Epic  Post #: 4
3/2/2013 15:59:33   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 @blitz Why not? It is often not one skill that causes a balance issue but two or more put together. Massacre on its own isn't all that powerful but when it's added to Smoke/Malf, the damage goes up a lot. Then throw in Bloodlust so BHs get health back and it's even better. You can't look at just one skill. One skill is seldom ever broken enough that it is a problem on its own. The problems arise when a combo of skills are used. Look at heal loop mages. FM was not broken and neither was Reroute. But the end result when they were put together was a broken build.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/2/2013 16:02:47   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 ^ Not if you compare the same kind of move but just with another class.
It are both poison moves, if one is better then the other it should get equal.
It is about the move itself, not in which combo you use because that are outside factors.
Epic  Post #: 6
3/2/2013 16:09:37   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 Okay, let's try this. Say Class A has a stun move that is energy. Class B also has a stun move that is energy. They're two different skills but exactly the same details(so you can change one without affecting the other). Class A also has Malfunction while Class B does not. Would you say it's fair if Class A was able to hit for more damage(while still having a chance to stun) while Class B cannot? Same stats and same level, yet one class is clearly at an advantage with their skills despite them being the exact same.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 7
3/2/2013 16:12:13   
master x guardian
Member

quote:

You cant take the other skills with it you know.
Every skill is separated.

I find that REALLY funny because unless someone's level 1, the other skills are there so they ARE GOING to be used; therefore, talking about synergy is a perfectly acceptable.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 8
3/2/2013 16:16:40   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned
quote:

Would you say it's fair if Class A was able to hit for more damage(while still having a chance to stun) while Class B cannot?

Actually yes, the skill itself is supposed to hit that amount, even if malf makes it do more dmg, the skill itself is still the same as the one from class b.

Outside factors shouldnt be a reason too nerf/buff something as it is not related to the move itself.

But this is just my opinion tho

< Message edited by Blitzex/Sr. Zeph -- 3/2/2013 16:18:52 >
Epic  Post #: 9
3/2/2013 16:19:45   
master x guardian
Member

Well look at Blood Mage's Plasma Cannon. It was nerfed because it synergized too well with what? You guessed it, another one of Blood Mage's skills: Blood Lust.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 10
3/2/2013 16:24:32   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 They nerfed Heal because it went to good with Reroute, they nerfed TLMs because Smokescreen worked too well with Maul, Technician and Frenzy, they nerfed BMs because Berzerker went too well with the other strength skills, they nerfed Static Charge because it went too well with Malf and Massacre. The list goes on and on. Many of the nerfs to any skill happen because they go too well with another skill and cause problems.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 11
3/2/2013 16:25:29   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned


 ^ And that should be a reason to nerf/buff something in my opinion.
Other classes with similar skills will have other skills that synergize with it, so i dont find that a reason.

Look at the mass builds, they need smoke (malf /bl (something) and mass too work, take one of those away and their builds drops down on the floor.
Epic  Post #: 12
3/2/2013 16:28:18   
ND Mallet
Legendary AK!!!


 If players were limited to one and only one skill then I'd see a reason to buff skills only based on other similar skills, but we aren't limited to one skill.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 13
3/2/2013 20:20:06   
arthropleura
Member

Well this is an awkward sidetrack xD. But lol, i do not understand the combination of smoke, blood lust and poison, no one uses it. Smoke reduces armour but whats the point of doing a 70% dmage attack right after it? Poison doesnt affect blood lust. Ive only seen one person who made a smoke poison massacre build with a decent win rate
And i beat him :/
No one uses it, isnt that a sign it is slightly UP?
DF AQW Epic  Post #: 14
3/2/2013 22:00:55   
Silver Sky Magician
Member


 Poison takes too much energy to use effectively for Hunters, compared with more efficient alternatives like Smokescreen and Massacre. Even TLMs now find better use for their energy/skill points.
Post #: 15
3/2/2013 23:41:54   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Poison on CHs could work well, but I find it very hard to use in 1v1 on BHs because of the fact that you gain no HP back from blood lust when the opponent takes poison damage. Also, given the reroute nerf from the Omega HP increments, poison grenade costs WAY too much energy to use efficiently. It typically does around 39-45 damage, and is that really worth the 33 energy cost?
Epic  Post #: 16
3/2/2013 23:45:10   
drinde
Member

I think Poison would be a viable strategy in 2v2 to break tanks, but the problem lies with Venom Strike's heavy requirements. I bet if they simply removed the weapon requirement or
give it something to improve with, say, support, it would be quite popular. I remember adoring the skill in lower levels :P

EDIT:

To be honest, I'm still kind of waiting for people to revive the old Beta Poison-Massacre build. It was a pain to deal with both the gradual damage and hard strikes from each turn, even with healing...

< Message edited by drinde -- 3/2/2013 23:58:33 >
DF MQ Epic  Post #: 17
3/2/2013 23:55:53   
ED Prince of Shadows
Member

There is many advantages TLMs have with poison with their only skills. Reroute makes it so that the high many cost is overlooked, hybrid armor makes it functional with with tank builds (especially since you can use a sword with it). I only ask for the removal of a stat requirement and maybe the removal of the weapon requirement.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/3/2013 0:03:01   
  Exploding Penguin
Moderator


 Given that HP takes a lot more to invest in, average HP should range from about 80-90 now. Given 85, level 7 reroute gives a total return of like 20 energy...not so much.
Epic  Post #: 19
3/3/2013 0:57:15   
NDB
Member

They should just make it so that they both deal 100% strike damage. There's no point in making it weak anymore in Omega.
Epic  Post #: 20
3/3/2013 1:13:58   
Giras Wolfe
Member

What an interesting discussion.

I think its a moot point because both skills are totally useless and poison builds always have and always will suck.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
3/3/2013 1:29:04   
NDB
Member

That was quite blunt. Explain yourself, because poison builds were pretty good back in Alpha and Beta.
Epic  Post #: 22
3/3/2013 1:31:01   
Blitzex/Sr. Zeph
Banned
quote:

totally useless and poison builds always have and always will suck.

I do not agree with you on this part.
A 5 focus TLM with lvl 8 poison grenade can be irritating due to reroute making it possible to use more then once every battle.
Epic  Post #: 23
3/3/2013 1:41:26   
theholyfighter
Member

quote:

Poison takes too much energy to use effectively for Hunters

That's why "Venom Strike" is useless now to hunters.
AQW Epic  Post #: 24
3/3/2013 2:35:35   
master x guardian
Member

Given the lower HP environment of Omega, DoT moves actually seem alright. 30+ damage coupled WITH regular strikes can bring down someone fairly quickly.
AQ DF MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 25
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