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MERCENARY NEEDS UP

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3/6/2013 14:33:05   
santonik
Member

They nerf mostly
stregth,tech,support

less defence

some skills too (example) bunkker

but think those nerfs combo tech+bunkker or tech+surcicalstrike

those is dead build now.

and i cant still beat any over 33 lvl boyntyhunter. Others i can IF i have luck in my side.



Epic  Post #: 1
3/6/2013 21:25:28   
Trifire
Member
 

 Well, what is your build. I think that the game is balenced right now. Why not try a 5 focus merc build?
Post #: 2
3/6/2013 21:54:33   
santonik
Member

I noticed 4-5 focus build is weak.
1 smoke/malf no defence this is biggest broplem
1 emp no energy
very hard to counter back
when you have low defence or low energy
remember smoke/malf gives huge advanced to enemy. more block/deflection.

If u not believe try your self.


Epic  Post #: 3
3/6/2013 22:13:07   
A.T
Member

merc field commander isnt as effective as before due to str nerf but the smoke/malf are still strong as before.

Merc class is almost fading now, 5 focus isnt good as ull be receiving more dmg than u deal, intimate is an OK skill but still the increase in damage they get from malf/smoke is more than the damage you decrease by intimate and you can always use something else rather than primary/gun.

Support build is a build works to kill low level people quickly, forget about killing someone lvl 35 unless he has low hp with low def/res and dies in 2 turns.

Strength build is also used to kill low level people quik, but as almost always u will not be the one to start battle u wont be able to kill high level people and most likely ending up healing in 2nd or maybe even first turn.(U even need luck here to not be blocked, which is where this build becomes bad)

EP draining skills effect merc the most of all classes due to having completely NILL regen of mana and hp over time, the longer the battle goes the closer is a merc to be defeated as u wont be regenerating anything and the other guy will be regenerating hp/ep is a big factor. (regenerating like 30 hp/ep in a game is gamebreaking)

Bunker is good when you are <lvl 25 after that it starts to fade away.

Hybrid requires too much support, its rather better to get higher tech/dex than sup else ull be getting blocked/def a lot.

Atom smasher requires high str to be good or high level, and in the end can be blocked anytime lol.

The rage passive would be usefull when u have low support and can keep the rage meter equal with other but no rage passive it self has sup requirement :D

The nukes merc have is like if you end up finishing your ep and not killing your opponent have fun hitting 3 dmg whole game due to addding a lot in tech/dex for the damage/requirement.

< Message edited by A.T -- 3/6/2013 22:20:32 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 4
3/6/2013 23:38:04   
Giras Wolfe
Member

Mercenary has returned to how it was before omega: Only very smart, very old players can use it effectively.
AQ AQW Epic  Post #: 5
3/7/2013 1:25:26   
santonik
Member

TY mr A.T that comment.

That is verygood overview.

I have sometimes littlebit broplem this english but that overview is same what i figured.

Epic  Post #: 6
3/7/2013 4:47:27   
GirlDevil
Member
 

 Omega is the Merc Killer.
The lack of a good buff makes it almost impossible in the higher lvls to get some decent wins.
Why not give smoke back (or some other buff).
Post #: 7
3/7/2013 6:09:37   
Goony
Constructive!
quote:

Mercenary has returned to how it was before omega: Only very smart, very old players can use it effectively.


I resemble that statement, but to be honest if I was smart I'd change class...

@ A.T. not a bad overview of the class and it has indeed been nerfed into a quick kill class or don't bother playing it. The buff to BL was the straw that broke this camels back ;)

As for my summation of the class, useless comes to mind unless you want to just play a smash or burn style, the strategic style of play is non existant... So much for the class description :p

I used a max hybrid, max bunker, max artillary build with limited success. Had 100hp, 100sup and 100tech, but a well timed EMP or high heal negated the build quite easily... Other than that build, which was a kill in 3-5 turn build, I just get killed time and time again, the players think it's great beating a moderator thou! Makes someone happy I guess.

The problem lies in the fact that other tank classes have better skill trees;
TIM has reroute and frenzy, a HP regain that is offensive, armor stat distribution covers the tech nicely now that it is changable and in the main they use IA on rage, can normally cover the 1st rage... But the second rage by IA doesn't tickle!
Cyber focus tanks are next to unbeatable to me, they simply use malfunction and tear me apart... Pity the assault bot has been rendered useless!
BH and BM focus tanks are just as bad, smoke and shadow arts from BH or bludgeon and DA from BM combined with Blood Lust often sees defeated while they still have nearly full health and have barely touched their energy pool... Really sad those matches...
TM focus builds are also difficult due to malfunction, aux, DA, bot, bludgeon and reroute combinations

Then we come to the offensive builds from other classes;
TIM used with high support can deal out huge damage and have a high heal... Strength based TIM using a combination of double strikes and frenzy over and over and over again are also difficult to beat... Intimidate does work a bit, but you don't see many offensive TIM there are much more powerful offensive classes :(
CH, with high HP, high support, malf, SA, and max massacre are the worst... Drain energy you say! Yep that just leads to being malfed twice... Where is the flee battle button again, waste of time instant loss in most cases except for getting etremely lucky...
High strength BH and BM... Hahaa, just forget it, unless you block them 2-3 times in the battle and both have unblockable combinations with new cores that make them next to invinsible versus anything but a support abusing build. They tear a merc tank to shreads! No joke...
And then we have support TM... Good luck! Tech TM possibly the only offensive build that is beatable, but strategy to do so is boring, simply atom smash them 3 times ;)

What's wrong...
Easy way to fix is to simply eliminate it as a class, as it has been so bad for so long and the class is a basket case!
Needs some form of debuff counter mechanism. Intimidate is easily the worst debuff
Adrenaline is useless, that skill was nerfed before it was even implemented with the buff to rage gain from 100% to 110% return. If rage was modified it may be slightly useful or have it actually reduce opponents rage gain. For example a CH, BH or TM can debuff me with smoke or malfunction, hence lower rage gain, and I have maxed adrenaline and they will still beat me to rage by 2-3 turns... BM are the worst culprits when it comes to unjustified rage gain due to the amount of damage they get and combined with BL return. Perhaps if rage considered bloodlust returns it would factor better!
Blood commander ... nerfed, takes a turn to activate... Well, it just got nerfed due to strength skill progressions being changed... It's good in theory skill, but when games can last as little as 3-5 turns and often defensive moves are required who would consider using it when in all reality just striking more than compensates for the HP return and strength in terms of damage and rage gain. Also has no luck modifier unlike other class... Easily the worst buff
Intimidate... nerfed
Double Strike... nerfed
Artillary Strike... nerfed
Atom smasher... nerfed, useless against classes you need it the most, CH and BH massacre builds due to SA
Maul... nerfed, some say it's the best stun... hahaa, hahaa, hahaa... Base is 22% need to train it to level 4 before it's got the same chance as other stuns and need to train it to max to have the same stun chance as a BH or CH with max SA :( Oh and it's the only stun that's blockable... hahaa, best, hahaa...
Bunker... nerfed, okay at high levels, no energy tends to limit effectiveness :p
Hybrid is same as other passive armors now that armor def/res can be modified... Had a slight advantage previously :(

In case you're wondering why I listed so many skills as being nerfed well that's because of the progression table restructuring!

So, mercenary is back into it's customary postion since the start of Delta, bottom of the food chain :(

I'll keep playing the class so that players can get free wins and brag about beating a mod... Please note I am just a moderator and these opinions are probably not reflective of the developers interpretation of class balance. I am strictly speaking for myself as a level 35 Mercenary!

< Message edited by Goony -- 3/7/2013 6:29:40 >
Epic  Post #: 8
3/8/2013 0:59:46   
Toffeuy
Member
 

 Mercenary is completely fine as it is. I've been getting a higher win % than any other common builds of other classes. You just need a more versatile build to deal with different classes. I'll even show you my build to prove it:
http://oi50.tinypic.com/264hkwg.jpg
Cores: Icy Chill, Frostbite, Sidearm Mastery, Energy Shot, Ninja Reflexes, Generator, Stun Blast, Concussive Shot (The ones that matter are the active ones, the passives can be substituted with other cores)
I've also had success with a strength and support build, so far this build has been working the best. The comments above don't seem to apply to me at all. I can heal loop and survive many turns, I can go for quick kills, and I am a Focus Merc, which people seem to have been noting as the least effective build. If you don't believe me, even go for a test run. From my viewpoint, mercenaries are just as strong as the other classes.

Mercs have Adrenaline, probably the most underrated skill, this skill combined with bezerker and decent dex is an absolute game changer. Berzerker only took a 10% nerf and is definitely still viable. Hybrid Armor provides def/res for heal looping against builds based on tanking. Since mercs cannot regain energy through any other means, generator is most effective for this class. At least, it most certainly works better than say a TM, when their low defs make healing hp with the core useless and because they have reroute, a lot of the time they have an abundance of energy anyway.

EDIT: Oh, and that's Gamma Bot i'm using btw. Since there are so many smoke bhs around, I really wouldn't use the yetis even though combined with the omega weapons, they have 2 more damage. The fact that the Gamma Bot's special is unblockable is much more key than an extra 2 damage. Already, the yetis cannot compare, and if you include the fact that Frost Slayer can use Frostbite, the difference between a Gamma Bot and Yeti is huge.

< Message edited by Toffeuy -- 3/8/2013 1:45:20 >
Post #: 9
3/8/2013 2:26:41   
Goony
Constructive!


 ^ When was the last time you used that build versus an experienced player such as Angels Holocaust or one of the players at the top of the GYT leaderboard, because I'm not talking about win rates versus a lower level noob... I'm talking about battles versus someone who knows how to play. I cannot see how that build would cope with malfunction or another tank with Infernal Android! If your reliance is on rage bezerker then I cannot see how you can claim it has higher win % than other classes. As for versatility... umm, yeah... heal, zerker, bot or aux... Good luck

Mercenaries may be the class to use when levelling up, but at the top level versus a good player the class comes up very short!
Epic  Post #: 10
3/8/2013 3:05:51   
Toffeuy
Member
 

 ^You can be assured i'm not talking about lower level players. Sure, you cannot "see" how well it would work, so try it instead. Your character page suggests you're well equipped enough to do so. Based on the demographics of malfunction users, most people have resistance of around 30. Rage Zerk does around 60 damage to those. I have 105 base health, with generator, that comes another 13, and a heal of 54, I will survive long enough for malf to run out and make it a turnaround game. Also, my support allows me to land the first strike most of the time, my bot will be unhampered by malf during the first hit. TMs with malf usually have a mid levelled heal. And CHs rely a lot on massacre. My zooka core can disable either one of these with a chance of 33%, and knowing EpicDuel, that's a pretty damn high luck rate you're going to be having. I know, you're going to say you can't rely on luck. But luck is skill. You might find that paradoxical by definition but I believe skill incorporates all aspects of the game, including the ability to inflict luck upon others. Most people will have around 100 hp, so zerk takes out 60, 40 hp won't be very hard considering the offensive capabilities of my build. For those with higher than 100 hp, they usually lack the offensive capabilities of breaking through my comparatively high defences. The only ones who might be able to do so are massacre builds. Bh mass is crippled by Frostbite, CHs won't be a problem considering I start first (which I almost always do, since CHs tend to only have 42 support nowadays).

I admit, I haven't encountered players on the All-Time leaderboards yet with this build. But half of them aren't even active, some are still moaning over the loss of npcs, I shouldn't have to be expecting to meet one of them every single battle should I? If I am to verse one of the leaderboard players, of course my chance to win will be less, but so will every single other build right? A build's success is based on it's ability to win, basically just win. Not to add extra circumstances such as "what if you face leaderboard player". Versing a Leaderboard player, I can say damn straight, this build, relative to the majority of other builds out there will be more likely to win. Enough of the small talk, like I said, you have a boatload of equipment, and all you really actually need for my build is Gamma Bot and Frost Slayer, test it out yourself. You can't know a build's power without properly testing it. My first glance of the 150 energy caster builds was a "What the Hell?", but it wasn't until I actually fought a player with it and tried it myself that I knew of its power. Try it, you're already a merc, and it won't take much to upgrade the equips (which you probably even have already done). Try the build, then tell me and contradict me,
Post #: 11
3/8/2013 7:11:22   
Goony
Constructive!


 Yup, I used it and tested vs Angels Holocaust and did 10 random battles that resulted in 8 losses from 10 battles, it came up short like most mercenary builds at the top level...

quote:

I will survive long enough for malf to run out and make it a turnaround game.


quote:

since CHs tend to only have 42 support nowadays


quote:

For those with higher than 100 hp, they usually lack the offensive capabilities of breaking through my comparatively high defences


So tell me, what happens when you meet a CH that has 120+ HP, 84+ support and a malfunction that removes 40+ technology? They often go 1st, use malfunction (around 10-20 damage), then aux (40+ damage) as your resistance would be 5-6 + 5 + 6, then do azral will (30+ damage) to force you to strike and then massacre (that can do in excess of 70 damage). Are you telling me that you don't encoiunter that build?

Sure you can go 1st and hope to put malfunction on standby using concussive strike, you can use frostbite and reduce energy below massacre, then you could if you had equipped a yeti chomp their weapons. The you can expect to be raged with malfunction and have them do minimum 30+ damage every strike! In the meantime you have wasted your energy for bezerker by healing and will have to watch out for their max shadow arts and block core to ensure strikes... Btw, the malfunction has rendered your 2 main weapons, bot and aux less effective due to damage reduction or deflections...

I don't mean to scoff at your build suggestion, but the other people posting in this thread all have concerns about the mercenary class and you seem to think they are fine... Umm, I didn't even touch on other classes!

quote:

My zooka core can disable either one of these with a chance of 33%,


It doesn't disable them, just puts them into cooldown only the pyro fly can disable skills for the entire battle... Anyway Battle ON and hope you continue to enjoy the success your build is giving you :)

< Message edited by Goony -- 3/8/2013 7:17:49 >
Epic  Post #: 12
3/8/2013 9:54:09   
A.T
Member

Just to let you know i am a non-varium merc playing since beta.

Ok forget that just saying how do you expect me to beat any1? lol
I dont even have a robot yet haaha :D ( have used a lot of money in retraining skills, upgrading weapons etc.) and getting 20k with just loses isnt easy :(

and with these weapons around forcing me to attack,eating up my ep etc. I literally have no idea how to continue.

My win rate right now is like 50% kills = death in 1v1 was more than 60% before omega. Not really good but u cant expect a non-varium to do that much even :)

< Message edited by A.T -- 3/8/2013 9:55:15 >
AQ DF MQ  Post #: 13
3/8/2013 18:16:28   
Synner
Member

Bro Gamma bot special is blockable
Post #: 14
3/9/2013 2:09:15   
Sortrius
Member

As the great G00NY said, Mercenary will no longer be a viable class from now until the devs decide they want to. Support was nerfed so much so that is out of the question, Tech is not the best because as people in the post said, a well placed heal or emp = you lose. Te only decent build for mercs now is a +5 focus build which is actually getting me about a 77% win rate surprisingly. (won't last long through the next patch I'm sure) Mercenary is just going to not ever be the same, o looks like its time to go outside, mow some lawns and go to your local Wal-Mart and buy some varium for a class change :P
AQW Epic  Post #: 15
3/9/2013 2:34:49   
Toffeuy
Member
 

 @G00NY: Then have you tried having Angels using the build and you using hers? What would the results be? I don't expect you both to have to class change just for the sake of a balance argument, but the your test results are highly unreliable. To start off, your skill levels are different, also there's always going to be a build which is especially effective against a certain other build. My build's greatest weakness is Cyber Hunters in general. For a more reliable test, you really should be going into a number of 1v1s to see which has a higher %. Also, there's another test we could run, but i'll pm you the suggestion since it does go a bit off-topic.
Post #: 16
3/9/2013 4:40:29   
beastmo
Member

My build is dominating in 1vs1 as a merc. They are not as underpowered as you think.
Epic  Post #: 17
3/9/2013 7:17:02   
Drianx
Member

@G00NY

Well I think you have been the reason that Merc has remained underpowered for so long. That is because you are such a fine player and strategist, that everyone who watches you use it believes it is much stronger than it actually is.
AQW Epic  Post #: 18
3/9/2013 8:35:44   
cool preston
Member

I've had a few ideas about changing merc number 1 replace adrenaline to aux deadly aim I named it tactical sights

I am doing rather well Asa merc. 5 focus gamma bot with other things but my build is sacred. Anyways they needs buff but idk what.
MQ  Post #: 19
3/10/2013 14:44:01   
King Coolz
Member

quote:

I've had a few ideas about changing merc number 1 replace adrenaline to aux deadly aim I named it tactical sights

I am doing rather well Asa merc. 5 focus gamma bot with other things but my build is sacred. Anyways they needs buff but idk what.

Not Supported:
There are several support mercenary who does at least 40 damage with no (smoke/malfunction) or buff like (critical/rage); replacing a skill would make it so that mercenary would get additional damage on there aux which would not be good at all. The range would be like this be like the following:
-Mercenary Normal Damage Aux: 40
-Mercenary With (Malfunction or Smoke): 52
-Mercenary With (Rage or Critical) with (Malfunction or Smoke): 62
-Mercenary with Rage, Critical with (Malfunction or smoke): 70
-Mercenary with Rage, Critical with (Malfunction or smoke) Plus the skill by cool preston: 78

*Note that this scale can go up higher and lower depending on the builds that are being used to do this damage. The point is it that this this Ideal would be very Over Powered and can do high damage through some high armor build and still take them out in 1 shot; Even if they are not knock out by 1 shot they suffer from very high damage even if there is no malfunction,smoke,rage,critical in under just 1,2 or 3 turn leaving them very vulnerable to have a high chance of death on the 1st or 2nd turn.*

quote:

They nerf mostly
stregth,tech,support

less defence

some skills too (example) bunkker

but think those nerfs combo tech+bunkker or tech+surcicalstrike

those is dead build now.

and i cant still beat any over 33 lvl boyntyhunter. Others i can IF i have luck in my side.

Not Supported:
Alot of mercenary can do some pretty high damage on first on second turn; I was in a game with Xx Morgan xX and she did (Double Critical on me and my partner knowing that we both have above (23 - 28 Defence) 30 x 2 and even before Xx Morgan xX did multi she used her sidearm and it also critical me making me die in 2 turn with having 93 health.

*I do believe that mercenary should have more of a flexible build but not buffed more*
MQ Epic  Post #: 20
3/10/2013 14:47:18   
nico0las
Member

I've had quite some difficulty beating tech mercenaries and strength mercenaries lately, It's not underpowered.
Having said this, it's not that powerful anymore.
MQ AQW Epic  Post #: 21
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